Request some of the older and knowledgeable posters to post more often

GeorgeO

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Guys

Could some of the older posters who added value to this forum who have now stopped, resume? There are many who used to share their knowledge and experience( Rajiv, Quad, Asit, Santhosh to mention just four FMs located in four different locations) and who have been turned off by some abrasive and opinionated FMs who are no longer with us. Please resume posting.

Thanks in advance
 
Yes, Please. We need to keep hearing from the experts on the latest. Helps us to keep up. Thanks for bringing this up George.
 
Thanks George and everybody else. However, calling me an expert in hifi would be the over-statement of the century. More on that in the later part of this post.

The last year and a half has changed my life significantly. In this time, I have lost two very lovely people in our family, and a third person went through a surgery. My wife and I were the only people in a position to look after these elderly people in our family. In addition, our son went to the US for graduate studies in Aug 2013. In this period, I had to assume greater administrative responsibility in my profession (unfortunately in India, becoming a more senior academician usually always means a bigger role in administration). A combination of all this has changed our lives in a big way, and I have had very little time to interact with people on a social basis. Apart from my immediate family, two of my biggest involvement these days have been my new PhD student (I have accepted a new PhD student, probably my last) and my own music. Some of you may know that I am musician myself, but may not know that I have more than 30 years of rigorous training in Hindustani classical vocal music, and could actually become a professional musician. I was actually performing quite frequently in my younger days, but in the middle somewhere, I had to give more preference to my academic profession. But recently, I have started performing again on a more regular basis. So, obviously a lot of time beyond the office hours are now spent in riyaaz (practice) and also interacting with younger performing musicians who come to my place for discussions, listening and advice etc.

As already stated above, I am NOT an expert in any aspects of hifi equipments. In this whole forum, you would not usually find me recommending people to get a certain product more than something else. However, as a theoretical physicist, and at the same time as a musician, there are certain advantages which can be unique in a few cases. In addition, me living in the USA and Europe for nearly 14 years at a stretch gave experiences in hearing quite a few nice music gears in people's homes and also in specialized stores.

Let me give an example. I know cables are a hot subject in any forum. The non-believers of cable breaking-in or burning-in have the standard argument that there are no moving parts in a cable. But as a physicist I see a problem in that argument. Electrons inside the so-called conduction band of the metal do move. In addition, macroscopic pieces of metals as in a audio cable are never single crystals, neither they are perfect crystals. In all real life situation, there are domain-walls and imperfections (such as doping) in a crystal. Quantum mechanics is the subject that governs the dynamics of the electrons and the domain walls etc. In fact, this is a subject of current interest in some branches of condensed matter physics and material science.

I know the above is outside the domain of an average music gear enthusiast. It's better not to talk about such things in a forum of this sort. So people can share their experience, and that experience then has to be respected. If somebody says, I don't hear a difference, that's fine with me. If somebody else says, I hear a difference, that's also fine with me. But when people start ridiculing others based on their personal judgement or limited knowledge on a particular matter, that's not fine with me. I have not lived my life compromising with such opinions.

Certain things in life are not for everybody. For example, I cannot paint like a Claude Monet or a Matisse, or will not be able to design a Tajmahal. But I believe, everybody can appreciate the mesmerizing or haunting power of a good melody (and I include even Western classical music, all good specimens of that music has unforgettable passages of good melody in them). While buying a music gear, all people have to make sure, they love their favourite music in the system they are about to procure. Music should always come first.

As I am growing older, I have discovered that I am happy with almost any system provided the music is something I love, and the system has reasonable tonality. Everything else is relatively unimportant.
 
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I know cables are a hot subject in any forum. The non-believers of cable breaking-in or burning-in have the standard argument that there are no moving parts in a cable. But as a physicist I see a problem in that argument. Electrons inside the so-called conduction band of the metal do move. In addition, macroscopic pieces of metals as in a audio cable are never single crystals, neither they are perfect crystals. In all real life situation, there are domain-walls and imperfections (such as doping) in a crystal. Quantum mechanics is the subject that governs the dynamics of the electrons and the domain walls etc. In fact, this is a subject of current interest in some branches of condensed matter physics and material science.
Nicely articulated Asit ji!
I know the above is outside the domain of an average music gear enthusiast. It's better not to talk about such things in a forum of this sort. So people can share their experience, and that experience then has to be respected. If somebody says, I don't hear a difference, that's fine with me. If somebody else says, I hear a difference, that's also fine with me. But when people start ridiculing others based on their personal judgement or limited knowledge on a particular matter, that's not fine with me.

However, since it is coming from a Physicist with enough and more knowledge on the subject, this post would hopefully motivate the skeptical lot not to base their opinions on the (superficial) theoretical knowledge gained by reading a few articles written by unknown people with unknown motives but on actual listening sessions.

If somebody says, I don't hear a difference, that's fine with me. If somebody else says, I hear a difference, that's also fine with me. But when people start ridiculing others based on their personal judgement or limited knowledge on a particular matter, that's not fine with me.
Can't agree more. This reminds me of the signature of one of the FMs. It goes something like this:
It's perfectly fine to have a 'Preference', just don't push that as 'Reference' to others
 
calling me an expert in hifi would be (an) over-statement

Not quite out of line !
You are an accomplished musician AND a physicist. So you have a very well trained set of 'ears' and the technical ability to look at things deeper than just 'listening'. Both those give you the ability to make an 'informed opinion' on what you 'hear'. That's what many people want to know. An 'informed opinion'.
It isn't about if you are right or wrong but your 'informed opinion'.While everyone hears a lot of music in life there aren't too many who have 'trained ears' ! Your sensitivity to tone , timber etc., would be much greater than the average person.

That can be very helpful to those who can't put a finger on what they really want to get. At least it will give them a starting point !
 
The two fundamental questions in this field for me have been:

Q1. What kind of overall setup do studios have? If the audio engineers heard the music in a certain setup, isn't it logical for us to use the same? Yes, our rooms are not as well treated, but what about cables etc? Do we necessarily need expensive cable to overcome room limitations? Or will we get better audio quality through other means?

Q2. If the audio field loves to get into physics (often esoteric) and engineering, then why has no attempt been made to define a true reference? In physics, 1 kilogram is 1 kilogram everywhere because there is a reference block of mass stored somewhere in Europe. This is a true "benchmark".

And a benchmark or a reference is a true reference. Not 1 reference per manufacturer. A benchmark allows us to compare our setup to the benchmark and when we do a component swap, it clearly tells us if our setup went further away from the benchmark or closer to it.

Instead we get surrounded by all sorts of mysticism about how this is subjective and about different flavors of music etc.

Even in other highly subjective hobbies and industries, a ton of effort is made to do comparisons in a repeatable, verifiable, and systematic manner. Look at the wine industry for example - which is far more subjective than hifi, and even more susceptible to individual palates, mood of reviewer, external factors etc.

But they have master sommeliers, who are certified. They got the certification because they were successfully able to correctly identify the type, origin, varietal, and geography of 5-6 different wines - when tasting *blind*. (You can see the documentary Somm if interested).
 
You are getting into a dangerous area and you could pretty much get lost !;)

It might be better you do not look into the pro / studio side of audio. Cut your losses !
To start with most only use 'ordinary' cables from Canare, Mogami etc. All pro-audio cable and nothing esoteric. Connectors are also from similar companies. And LOTS of them in the audio chain !

Regarding speakers. You should have a glimpse at what recording engineers have to say about their choice of monitor speakers. They seem to be as finicky as consumer audio people ! A simple example . The cheap Behringer B2031A or P is considered to be crap by many engineers though there are several who like them ! So what do we learn from that ? Nothing ! If you get into components it gets even blacker ! Hundreds of low cost opamps all over the place that many consumer purists will puke at ! It's a vast black hole and you can easily get lost ! ;)

Audio benchmarks are possibly only based on end products . Like say Mobile Fidelity recording ! Or Deutsche Gramophone recordings etc.

Better to stay on this side of the pond and have your drink and enjoy the music with your friends ! :)
 
I do want to clarify my previous post, lest it get mistaken. The original thread was about welcoming seniors and knowledgeable FMs to post more. I personally have learnt most about audio from this forum, and because of the senior forum members like Asit, Sidvee, dr. bass, Rajiv, Stevie, Thad, Bhagwan, GeorgeO, Bijin, Nandac, Hari Iyer (just to name a very few) and some of the other members who have either stopped posting or are no longer even members.

At the end of the day, I am more interested in learning and participating and (where it gets tricky) posing opposing questions/viewpoints while still maintaining respect and focus on the original goal - i.e. to learn and gain insights.

I do feel that this Socratic method is the right approach to learning something new... and it does involve a bit of challenging, a bit of back and forth, and being able to change one's (mine) opinion about notions. The trick is to do this in a nice enough manner. And my personal barometer is one and one thing alone. If I get involved in a discussion, even if I disagree initially, I should at least maintain the mental capacity to admit that I could be fully or partially incorrect in my initial notions. Otherwise, it is just a debate for the sake of it, from my personal viewpoint. And there is so much of it in the internet, it becomes tiring very soon.

Just my personal notions. Wanted to clarify since my original post had a couple of questions that I was hoping to get some insights on - and I later recognized that again, the intent could have been misunderstood.
 
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Great post George. Very often I look up a topic on Google and find that it has been discussed in the past on here. The forum peaked around 3-4 years ago with some really interesting discussions. Since then the content has suffered with the loss of contributions from knowledgeable members.

Let's hope that your post will give reason for some to come back on here.
 
As I am growing older, I have discovered that I am happy with almost any system provided the music is something I love, and the system has reasonable tonality. Everything else is relatively unimportant.

Nicely said. That's what really matters.
 
George,

Pleasantly surprised to find my name in your post.
Indeed, I do post less frequently now, and the attitude you refer
to was partly responsible.
Beyond that, there are some additional demands/changed circumstances,
and constraints on time.

I do post when I feel I can add some value.
The forum is lucky to have very knowledgeable folks, and with
excellent mods added in the recent past, I believe we will contine to have a
growing, vibrant and inspiring community here.
 
..
However one far more reasonable thing to do is to realign the molecules/crystals again to attain the near perfection. To do this I designed and successfully executed a "Cryogenic Treatment" machine which would go down to liquid nitrogen temperatures and come up to normal temp and complete the process.

I am very sure that if your audio cables are pure copper made and even if not premium ones, if treated by this process, will sound better than most of the others or may be best of all.
..

So the Cryogenic treatment works for signal propagation ? thats very interesting coming from a man of science
 
Hi Prasad

Good to see your post and yes I agree times change( even for me). Using a smart phone has meant a lot less browsing for me. However, do post whenever you can, I for one have found your posts always had value to me (and others on this forum).

Cheers
 
Thanks Asliarun for that clarification. I always enjoyed your views and they have always been respectful even when you disagreed with OP. Please keep them coming.
 
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