rishiguru
Well-Known Member
A 140 sqft room on 1st floor. Lots of audio stuff throwing out lot of heat.
A believe a 1.1 Inverter still do the job.
Review of Sharp AH-XP18MV 1.5Ton Eco-Inverter Air Conditioner
- Thread starter rishiguru
- Start date
A 140 sqft room on 1st floor. Lots of audio stuff throwing out lot of heat.
A believe a 1.1 Inverter still do the job.
I think in the thread he already mentioned about the superiority of model AH-XP13LV over AH-XP13NRV in terms of performance & efficiency. AH-XP13NRV is better in terms of looks.
http://www.hifivision.com/general-l...co-inverter-air-conditioner-4.html#post487459
Only these 2 models seem to be available in India.
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
I believe AH-XP13LV is only 1.1 Ton Inverter model Sharp has as of now in India. There may be a old stock model AH-XP13NRV still available but performance is not as good as 13LV. Both comes with Sharps own Plamacluster Ion air purifier technology.
Nobody here to try other brands? Panasonics may cost more but they are really good.
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Came upon two of the funniest air conditioner ads ever. Sure, humor is subjectivebut some advertising over the years has been undeniably hilarious. These are made by Argentinean Electronics manufacturer BGH for their air conditioners.
Check them out.
Link: YouTube: BGH - Dads in Briefs Campaign
Link: YouTube: BGH - Summer Hater
Check them out.
Link: YouTube: BGH - Dads in Briefs Campaign
Link: YouTube: BGH - Summer Hater
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Recently I have observed a lot of hotly debated threads in different forums relating to the performance of:
1) The newly used all-aluminum micro-channel (canalicular tubed) condensers
2) The older round copper coil/tube with aluminum plate fin (bi-metal) RTPF condensers
By nature copper is a better conductor of heat than aluminum. All thermal properties of copper are better than aluminum. Copper is also costlier than aluminium. Aluminums advantage is that it is lighter and easier to machine.
RTPF condensers have serpentine internal coils to carry the refrigerant to be cooled. These copper coils are further assisted with aluminium fins when air passes through them. Let us consider three types of RTPF condensers:
RTPF-1: Copper coil with copper plate fin condenser (all-copper)
RTPF-2: Copper coil with aluminum plate fin condenser (copper-aluminum)
RTPF-3: Aluminum coil with aluminum plate fin condenser (all-aluminum)
Here definitely RTPF-1 (extremely rare in AC's) will have the best thermal performance due to (all copper) and most costly to implement. It will be followed by RTPF-2 (most widely used in AC's) and then by RTPF-3 where performance in concerned as price goes on decreasing. I have observed there are few people who have this conception or rather misconception that RTPF-1 and even RTPF-2 will have better thermal performance than the new micro-channel condensers variants, reason being micro-channels are all aluminum.
THEY ARE WRONG.
So let me state again for two identical shaped, volumes, face areas, and fin densities condensers one being RTPF-1/ RTPF-2 and the other being all-aluminum micro-channel, the micro-channel condenser will ALWAYS have better thermal performance. This is not just due to the metal used but by the inherent design advantages that micro-channel rejoices over RTPF.
All-Aluminium Micro-channel Condenser VS Copper-Aluminium RTPF Condenser
Before we dig deeper let us revise the work cycle of an air conditioner in laymans terms to get a full picture. Air conditioners follow a simple rule where they absorb heat from air situated inside the room in question and reject that heat to the outside atmosphere. For split ACs when the cross-flow fan situated inside IDU starts to rotate it sucks air from above the IDU passing it through the cold evaporator unit situated inside which is finally blown out from below where the louvers are situated to guide the cool airstream. While passing through the evaporators the residence time the air spends causes heat transfer from indoor air to the evaporator via convection. This heat absorbed is then carried by the refrigerant gas via dedicated copper pipes to the ODU situated outdoor and are finally ejected to the outdoor atmosphere via convection. The component that does this very important job is known as the condenser unit or heat exchanger. An outdoor fan is provided to aid the heat exchange by expulsing the air through the condenser fins. The overall efficiency of an air conditioner is highly dependent on how efficiently these heat exchange of the both indoor and outdoor takes place. And this is where the micro-channel all-aluminum condensers have a distinct thermal performance advantage due to their inherent design advantage.
Micro-channel condenser technology is not new. It was first introduced as a viable heat exchanger/ condenser option in the late 1980s in the automotive industry. These types of condensers are used to replace R22 by R134A, R410A and R407C. The change in refrigerant type introduced new thermo-physical properties. What the industry required was a coil with heat transfer properties equal to or better than the oversized RTPF condensers were being evaluated but with a reduced size, reduced weight and increased leak protection. Micro-channel coils brazed in a controlled environment offered the solution. Since that time, all-aluminium micro-channel technology has taken over the automotive industry.
With time environmental concerns garnered more and more interest recently there came a similar push in the residential air conditioner market where companies started to shift from older R22 to far more efficient and environmentally friendly R410A refrigerant gas. And with R410A the micro-channel all-aluminum condenser was dragged from the automotive industry.
Lets be clear, R410A and all-aluminum micro-channel condensers go hand in hand. Micro-channel condenser coils are all aluminum coils with multiple flat tubes containing small channels (micro-channels) through which refrigerant flows. Heat transfer is maximized by the insertion of angled and louvered fins in-between the flat tubes.
Micro-channel Condenser Internal Design
The coil is composed of three components:
1) A flat micro-channel tube.
2) Fins located between the micro-channel tubes.
3) Two refrigerant manifolds.
These components are joined with two refrigerant manifolds using an aluminum-zinc alloy brazing material in a nitrogen-charged braze furnace to make the completed micro-channel coil. Coil circuiting is accomplished by placing baffles in the distribution manifolds to feed the refrigerant through the flat tubes.
The advantages observed over RTPF design:
1) Thermal performance: The higher heat transfer performance is obtained by the flat tubes, which maximize airside heat transfer, and micro-channels within the tubes. The micro-channels maximize refrigerant side heat transfer via multiple tiny refrigerant channels which provide increased primary surface area. Additionally, the metallurgical fin-tube bond resulting from the braze operation maximizes surface contact and increases the heat transfer surface area, further improving the heat transfer performance of the coil.
2) Corrosion protection: The corrosion potential with the all aluminum micro-channel coil is significantly lower than in copper/aluminum (bi-metal) RTPF coils as there are no dissimilar metals to initiate galvanic corrosion. This makes micro-channel coils an inherently better solution for coastal installations or any application where corrosion may be a concern.
3) Refrigerant charge: Micro-channel coils have a smaller volume, lowering condenser refrigerant charge by as much as 75 percent. As such, the use of micro-channel coils provides a more environmentally friendly solution for refrigeration systems to help reduce ozone depletion and global warming.
4) Durability and reduced leaks: Micro-channel coils require only one braze operation versus 50-100 manually brazed joints for RTPF, significantly reducing the likelihood for leaks. Additionally, the flat tubes serve as a fin guard to help protect the fins from damage.
5) Ease of service and repair: Micro-channel coils are easily cleaned and can be field repaired using a two-part epoxy process. These micro-channel coils are less than one inch thick allowing for easy removal of any debris that may be caught within the coil. This is not so with RTPF coils, which are often 2 to 3 inches thick with staggered tube patterns using corrugated fins which make debris removal difficult, if not impossible, in some circumstances. The durability of micro-channel coils also allows for pressure washing (using a broad spray pattern), which is not recommended with RTPF coils. Coil leaks, while unlikely, can also be easily repaired in the field using a simple process. An epoxy based sealant (such as red epoxy), a cleaning solution, a vacuum pump, a few simple tools, and a hot air gun is all that is required.
-------------------------
All-alumunium Micro-Channel Condenser Internal View
With the advantages of all-aluminium micro-channel condensers stated above I believe it is clear that they offer to be a more performance oriented, durable and viable solution over the old RTPF design and hold to be the future of residential air conditioning solutions. They improve cooling performance (EER), condenser capacity and evaporator capacity compared to the baseline systems using a RTPF condenser. These contributions are caused by the superior heat-transfer characteristic of a micro-channel condenser, lower refrigerant-side pressure drop, and consequently lower condensing temperature - resulting in requiring less work from compressor increasing its lifespan.
Some time ago I made a comparison between two identical models having different types of condensers. One had RTPF (Panasonic CS-ZC15PKY) and the other all-aluminum micro-channel (Panasonic CS-ZC15PKY-3). Naturally the CS-ZC15PKY-3 had better performance.
Link: Panasonic CS-ZC15PKY-3 VS Panasonic CS-ZC15PKY
I hope no more explaining from my part is required regarding the use of all-aluminium micro-channel condenser in Sharp AH-XP18MV.
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Hi Rishi, Thanks for the suggestion.
However I have one last clarification before jumping in. From what I gathered so far, the couple of apparent things lacking in 1.1T AH-XP13LV compared to 1.5T AH-XP18MV:
1. The by-now-famous real time power consumption display
From the pics you posted on other threads I noticed that for AH-XP13LV, it has two options 800W and 600W instead of the display. What does this really indicate? That it can run in two modes only while on partial load? Sharp's spec posted by you indicate it can come down to as low as 0.23T. Sorry I am all confused.
2. All Aluminium body ODU.
Are there any more?
However I have one last clarification before jumping in. From what I gathered so far, the couple of apparent things lacking in 1.1T AH-XP13LV compared to 1.5T AH-XP18MV:
1. The by-now-famous real time power consumption display
From the pics you posted on other threads I noticed that for AH-XP13LV, it has two options 800W and 600W instead of the display. What does this really indicate? That it can run in two modes only while on partial load? Sharp's spec posted by you indicate it can come down to as low as 0.23T. Sorry I am all confused.
2. All Aluminium body ODU.
Are there any more?
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
You are most welcome.
Only the Sharp AH-XP18MV (1.5 Ton) and Sharp AH-XP24MV (2 Ton) have this real time digital power consumption display on their IDU in their entire Inverter range. Others do not contain this display to save cost.
The image you are referring is of AH-XP13MV and not AH-XP13LV. 13MV is a cosmetically upgraded version of 13LV, performances being identical. Only 13LV is available in India and comes with one standard Low Wattage Mode which equates to 600 watts.
When the Low Wattage button of Sharp 13LV is pressed the AC will basically limit its power consumption at 600 watts max. It is an input power limiter. This Low Wattage Mode has nothing to do with the minimum variable cooling capacity of 0.23 Ton. Rather it has direct effect on the rated cooling capacity of its 1.1 Ton. It is more like the AC on lean mode so that it operates likes a 0.7 Ton.
Now with the Low Wattage button pressed the 13LV will operate between (0.23 ~ 0.70) Ton rather than (0.23 ~ 1.2) Ton.
I believe you mean to say the all-aluminum micro-channel condenser as found in the ODU of Sharp AH-XP18MV. Yes, 13LV uses the rather common RTPF condensers as found in almost all ACs. At the end you want a hassle free AC at a reasonable price and that which saves energy and give you less burden in electric bills. Sharp AH-XP13LV ticks all those points at INR 31K all included with complete free installation kit and are the best VFM. Of course there are even better ones from other brands like Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. But you have to shell out a lot more to have them.
I am planning to purchase the Sharp AH-XP18MV 1.5T model for the master bedroom which is on the top floor and has an uncovered terrace, the bedroom size is 225sqft with 10ft ceiling.
Any pointers for dealer/retailer contacts in Bangalore?
Any pointers for dealer/retailer contacts in Bangalore?
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
PGDIMES
New Member
Hi Rishi,
This is my first post in this website and the only reason I'm here is your detailed review on Sharp aircons. This is surely one of the best reviews on the products of a company I have ever read online or offline. I can understand how much time you have devoted to choose your a/c as well as writing a review online.
Now coming straight to the topic... I have both 1.1T LV & 1.5T MV models on my wishlist. But the problem is none of the dealers in Kolkata (including Great Eastern) are quoting 31K & 41K respectively for these models. The best price I have got so far is 34K & 45.5K without installation. Installation will require another 2.25K (including stand). Can you suggest something(shops) or is there any need to improve my bargaining skills? :lol:
BTW, had a pep talk with Sharp service centre guys & came to know that MRV models have water-leaking problems & hence are being discarded or installed for office purpose.
PGDIMES
New Member
Hi Rishi,
Where can we find Sharp 1.1T inverter a/c for 31k or 1.5T for 41k in Kolkata? The best quotes I have got so far are 34K & 45.5K respectively.
rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the appreciation.
I always snag a good deal. Atleast while buying consumer electronics product. There are some reasons behind it as stated below:
1) Starting extensive market research via web and personal presence in showrooms few months prior to the target buying date. This will enable you to know the real flow of market other than getting brainwashed by the sales representative.
2) Never go by what the sales representative says or insists to buy. Avoid hype. Sales representative are always going to push for products which gives them the best incentive.
3) Build an extensive technological knowledge base, what is currently going in the international scenario rather than Indian context, which consumer companies are the technological leaders in their field and their offering.
4) Pinning down your requirement based on study and availability along with after sales service.
Once I have decided the product I need to buy is Sharp Eco-Inverter 1.5 Ton Air Conditioner with in-built Plasmacluster Ion air purifier, I enter the market to strategically gun for the lowest price.
Here also there are some rules I follow:
1) Knowing the dealers of our city and constantly communicating via phone. In Kolkata there are quite a few Sharp dealers. I called all of them. (http://sharpproducts.in/dealer.aspx)
2) Take the lowest quote from an established on-line store as a starting point to bargain. In my case it was INR 44.5K.
3) Step by step go down by 500 rupees and see how the dealer responds.
4) After I called at around thirty dealers the price have plummeted down by 44.5K .. 44K .. 43.5K .. 43K .. 42.5K .. 42K
5) Now the job gets harder since dealer profit is very minimal now, so lot of them starts refusing the 42K offer.
6) The strategy to follow now is to gun for small electronic shops who are also dealers. There daily expenses to run the store are 1/20th of a king sized fully air conditioned showroom (Great Eastern) and they truly chime for customers knowing very well they have to offer products at rock bottom prices or else customers are not going to come.
7) Targeting these shops price same down even further down to 41.8K .. 41.5K .. 41.3K and was becoming a constant now.
8) Lastly there was one who said 41K and it was his final offer challenging nobody in Kolkata can beat his price. He was right.
9) With my bargaining boat coasted in the appropriate dealer harbor, I got two of them at 41K each.
10) Mission accomplished with free delivery to home.
Note: My price is a pre-budget quote. After the recent budget the tax has increased on ACs which has direct effect on its market price.
BTW, had a pep talk with Sharp service centre guys & came to know that MRV models have water-leaking problems & hence are being discarded or installed for office purpose.
I do not know of any Sharp MRV models. They used to have NRV models for 0.8 and 1.1 Ton Inverters which were replaced by LV models this year.
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While looking for a split AC, Sharp was no where in my mind (was checking for Diakin, Panasonic & Hitachi, in that order). But thanks to your review, after a LOT of market & internet research I finally bought Sharp's 1.1 T inverter AC AH-XP13LV yesterday.
But I am a "jugadu" geeky guy and thus I have attached a real time wattage/voltage/amperage/kwh meter to the AC and in a poorly insulated room, the power usage varies between 250w to 650w @ 24C & 32w to 450w @ 27C. (yes that is 32w
Could you let me know the brand of wattage/kwh meter you are using.Is it the plug in type with LED display ? Approximate cost,since am using the 1.1 ton and would like to know how much power is it consuming.
Cheers
Looked around for AH-XP13LV and got all inclusive quotes of 37K (negotiable - small shop) and 39K (Vivek's) in Chennai.
akb, even I am interested in that meter you attached. Please post details of brand, model, how to attach it etc.
akb, even I am interested in that meter you attached. Please post details of brand, model, how to attach it etc.
Aluminum or Copper winding in Sharp inverter compressors
I was interested in buying a Sharp 1.1 T for my 153 sq ft room in Kerala. The temperatures are like 44 max in the summers. Not near the sea anyways so humidity shouldnt be a big factor. But I was talking to a salesman/technician and he said that Sharp is able to sell the inverters cheap because the winding they have in their compressors is of Aluminium and not Copper. Thsi gives away in a year or two and not as efficient as copper windings (which I too agree with) hence wouldnt be a good long term investment.
Can any of you (esp Rishi since you have pretty good knowledge on the product) throw some light on this and if the winding is indeed Aluminium and whats the advantage ? I Can only see disadvantage.
Cheers
I was interested in buying a Sharp 1.1 T for my 153 sq ft room in Kerala. The temperatures are like 44 max in the summers. Not near the sea anyways so humidity shouldnt be a big factor. But I was talking to a salesman/technician and he said that Sharp is able to sell the inverters cheap because the winding they have in their compressors is of Aluminium and not Copper. Thsi gives away in a year or two and not as efficient as copper windings (which I too agree with) hence wouldnt be a good long term investment.
Can any of you (esp Rishi since you have pretty good knowledge on the product) throw some light on this and if the winding is indeed Aluminium and whats the advantage ? I Can only see disadvantage.
Cheers
Hi Rishi,
After remaining indecisive regarding selection of inverter AC between LG BS-Q186C8R2 and Sharp AHXP-18MV finally purchased Sharp AHXP-18MV today. Damages 47.5K+ 1200(installation charges) + 500( cost of Brackets) Although Cooling range and EER of LG model is marginally better but input power is higher than the Sharp model.Further the manufacturing defect in the OD unit in case of LG as posted on several threads has also been a deterant.Can you throw some light on the installation regarding the lenght of pipes from ID to OD unit . Is the whole lenght of Cu pipe provided in the kit is to be used or can be reduced if site conditions permit.Else if they are rolled and not cut will it affect the cooling.
Regards,
Coolharry
After remaining indecisive regarding selection of inverter AC between LG BS-Q186C8R2 and Sharp AHXP-18MV finally purchased Sharp AHXP-18MV today. Damages 47.5K+ 1200(installation charges) + 500( cost of Brackets) Although Cooling range and EER of LG model is marginally better but input power is higher than the Sharp model.Further the manufacturing defect in the OD unit in case of LG as posted on several threads has also been a deterant.Can you throw some light on the installation regarding the lenght of pipes from ID to OD unit . Is the whole lenght of Cu pipe provided in the kit is to be used or can be reduced if site conditions permit.Else if they are rolled and not cut will it affect the cooling.
Regards,
Coolharry
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