Some more interesting info on CD players...

[murali]

I came across the following two information bits on CD players:

(1) An excellent article on perceived laser failures in CD players available at

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/laser/Laserolo

(2) Charles Hansen of Ayre, a leading solid state technology specialist and one of the most respected persons in high end audio circles, has the following to say when questioned about why he continues using Burr Brown chips and does not move to costlier ones:
'The DAC chip contributes to only about 10% of overall sound quality. The analogue circuitry contributes about 50%, the power supply about 30%, digital filter about 10% and the DAC chip about 10% in a good CD player'.

Points to ponder.

Happy listening.
murali

 

[arj]

From what i have been told, the Ayre uses standard Sony transports/Lenses put together specially for them with some smart engineering to reduce Jitter..so maybe he is getting it at a really low price. (something which 47 Labs is also doing).
And Ayre CDPs are supposedly really good. (Despite them getting regular Stereophile awardshyeah: )

Although Lampizator is pretty smart but have not yet got a feel of what he aims for in sound. although his posts on Transports are really very illuminating and very pragmatic/objective.

 

[suri]

yeah, some people are asses! - but the public are discerning?

 

[unleash_me]

That is an interesting site Murali.

 

[arj]

Adding on..
I guess the abpove was primarily with regard to contribution to Sound and not the cost. ?

The point of the DAC chip not being as important may be true as the emphasis on a DAC is primarily about the design and the final implementation of which the chip is just a small component.
From the above discussion with Charles H, if you add up the Analogue circuit, digital filter, part of the power supply and the DAC chip there seems to be an undue weightage to the contribution of a DAC...i would not put that over 60% at maximum.. as i have found out personally, that transports can make a Huge difference.

 

[arj]

That is an interesting site Murali.

true it is a nice treasure trove for "Digital heads". you should read this link on transports
CD_transport_DIY


also this one on how the Behringer can be modded for a "world class" DAC... if i havd the slightest OF DIY skills this would have been my pet project

Behringer

 

[murali]

This is a response to Mr. Hansen's observations in the forum:
Quote:
I have been hearing that same message from another reliable source, but I never knew what to make of it. My ears say this is so, but I also am a "nose counter" by profession, so it was interesting to hear this from someone who is much closer to solid state technology.

There is an interesting visual analog to all this from my experience. When I look inside a highish-end DAC or a CDP, I have two general "impressions": either the inside of the box looks virtually empty and is dominated by power supply and analog components, or else it is filled with skads of little "devices", like sand on a beach, and the PS is buried somewhere out of sight, unless you really look for it. This impression is not always based on a tube vs. SS distinction.

cheers.
murali

 

[hifiashok]

Laserology

 

[sbfx]

Adding on..
I guess the abpove was primarily with regard to contribution to Sound and not the cost. ?

The point of the DAC chip not being as important may be true as the emphasis on a DAC is primarily about the design and the final implementation of which the chip is just a small component.
From the above discussion with Charles H, if you add up the Analogue circuit, digital filter, part of the power supply and the DAC chip there seems to be an undue weightage to the contribution of a DAC...i would not put that over 60% at maximum.. as i have found out personally, that transports can make a Huge difference.

I use computer as my primary transport with a DAC which has a chipset that is not produced anymore (BB 1072K) I don't know if the dac (chip) is the most important thing. I've seen many discussions seen all over stating that newer chips are the best! perhaps true on paper (I'm no engineer) but have decent exposure to many cd-player with new and old players with different chipsets and have been left wanting many times with the supposedly new "superior" chips

I use a Bow Technologies ZZ-Eight (Custom-DAC USB) which is built on the BB 1702 chip and there nothing I would have over it regardless of price well I'll reserve that statement till I can compare it to a DCS Scarlatti rack! which I look forward to soon.

Personally I've compared the DAC to the AA Prestige(24-192K) and the Meridian 808.2i(24-192K) to me I'll always take home the Bow ZZ-8. Almost all up samplers I've heard are compromised in some way or the other, the only way 192K sounds better is when the source is actually 192K/176K played back without any up sampling algorithm.

If the sound is right it don't matter if its 16 bit or 32 bit! a dac chip is the last thing that should be looked at according to me.

Best Regards,


Satyam Bachani.

 

[bhagwan]

And Ayre CDPs are supposedly really good. (Despite them getting regular Stereophile awardshyeah: )

Yes they are;
I like the brand & the products.
I always wondered why there was no one in India representating it...
I hold Ayre in very high esteem...

 

[bhagwan]

I'll reserve that statement till I can compare it to a DCS Scarlatti rack! which I look forward to soon.
Personally I've compared the DAC to the AA Prestige(24-192K) and the Meridian 808.2i(24-192K) to me I'll always take home the Bow ZZ-8. Almost all up samplers I've heard are compromised in some way or the other, the only way 192K sounds better is when the source is actually 192K/176K played back without any up sampling algorithm.

If the sound is right it don't matter if its 16 bit or 32 bit! a dac chip is the last thing that should be looked at according to me.

I too like the BT - however it did not have a digital in - so it could not be used...
However, the BT 2008 V8 is a superb CD Player. One of the best I have ever heard anywhere or owned.

Sound & Vision of Pune is the D & D for dCS & they have a Scarlatti in stock & it seems to be doing the rounds in Mumbai. They can be contacted & the 'boxes' will be delivered to your place for a demo. No transport as yet, but that too will arrive soon, so I have been told.

SNV is also a member of this forum...

 

[sbfx]

I too like the BT - however it did not have a digital in - so it could not be used...
However, the BT 2008 V8 is a superb CD Player. One of the best I have ever heard or owned.

Sound & Vision of Pune is the D & D for dCS & they have a Scarlatti in stock & it seems to be doing the rounds in Mumbai. They can be contacted & the 'boxes' will be delivered to your place for a demo.
SNV is also a member of this forum...

I think sometime this month I should have access to a DCS rack! will let you know how it went once I have got a chance to compare them!

Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[IndianEars]

They can be contacted & the 'boxes' will be delivered to your place for a demo.

I would give An Arm + A Leg to hear the dCS at my home, but it just would not be fair, since I do not plan to spend that kinda $$$ on the source, in my system.

SNV if I can 'Earn' it by ferrying it to you, after its Mumbai demo... Ooooh ! :yahoo:

 

[bhagwan]

I would give An Arm + A Leg to hear the dCS at my home, but it just would not be fair, since I do not plan to spend that kinda $$$ on the source, in my system.

SNV if I can 'Earn' it by ferrying it to you, after its Mumbai demo... Ooooh ! :yahoo:

Sir,

Would you like to listen to it ?
Maybe if SNV approves, it could get done in some other audiophiles residence;;
Ask SNV & if he agrees, I am sure it can be arranged @ SBFX's place.
What do you want to listen to ?
Puccinni or Scarlatti ?
I am not so sure if the Paganini is in Mumbai or in Pune.
It could surely be arranged..

Just need to get your CD's and 3 hours of time & the heart to write the 'truth' after you have heard it...

 

[IndianEars]

ANY dCS would be a PRIVILEDGE to listen to in my setup, though I guess the Ultimate priviledge would be the Scarlatti stack that SBFX refered to in his post..

I'll reserve that statement till I can compare it to a DCS Scarlatti rack! which I look forward to soon.
Personally I've compared the DAC to the AA Prestige(24-192K) and the Meridian 808.2i(24-192K)

 

[bhagwan]

ANY dCS would be a PRIVILEDGE to listen to in my setup, though I guess the Ultimate priviledge would be the Scarlatti stack that SBFX refered to in his post..

Write to SNV in Pune.
State your interest & I am very much sure that SNV will accommodate..
Can I give your snv's email here ? you could actually google it & it must be there on the dCS web site at least..
All the Best !
Enjoy your experiance..
:yahoo:

 

[IndianEars]

This is VERY expensive and Superb equipment and Im sure the dealer ( SNV ) has invested a pretty penny for the units.

I personally feel it would be cheating if I asked for a demo at my home (since I am familiar with my system sound), claiming that I may buy it, when in reality, I dont plan to spend that kinda $$$ !



Its a matter of ethics for me, I would not feel good taking a demo against (fraudulent) claims of being a buyer.

 

[bhagwan]

This is VERY expensive and Superb equipment and Im sure the dealer ( SNV ) has invested a pretty penny for the units.

I personally feel it would be cheating if I asked for a demo at my home (since I am familiar with my system sound), claiming that I may buy it, when in reality, I dont plan to spend that kinda $$$ !



Its a matter of ethics for me, I would not feel good taking a demo against (fraudulent) claims of being a buyer.

Sir,

You did not read what I wrote.

I never asked you to tell snv that you want to buy it....

I said tell him that you want to listen to it.

He will make arrangements for a demo.

I said, sate your CD's & 3 hours of time & go for a listen..

Who said anything about buying it..

I know I went to Pune to SNV's clients place for a demo 1 year back for a listen. I had driven to Pune specially for this....

So ask & you never know what comes your way.
No need to purge your self - that was not even hinted @....

 

[bhagwan]

SFBX has a BT DAC.
He is not going to buy a dCS.
Still he wants to listen to it.
If there are a few in India, what is the harm in listening to it ?

besides, I personally think that the BT d2a is one of the best I have ever heard - ever... strong statement - I know. But I really think that Lars did a great job on that DAC.

 

[IndianEars]

Sir,

You did not read what I wrote.

I never asked you to tell snv that you want to buy it....

I said tell him that you want to listen to it.

He will make arrangements for a demo.

I said, sate your CD's & 3 hours of time & go for a listen..

Who said anything about buying it..

I know I went to Pune to SNV's clients place for a demo 1 year back for a listen. I had driven to Pune specially for this....

So ask & you never know what comes your way.
No need to purge your self - that was not even hinted @....

Shanti, I was only rambling and self introspecting in my post.

Never meant to imply that You were prodding me to fake an interest....