Subwoofer affecting vocals?

[keith_correa]

After having some discussion with fm rikhav, I stuck a 2 inch wooden blocks below the foot of the sub. Now its raised and decoupled from floor, affecting vocals less and bass is also more open and better dispersed. I think i will keep it this way for time being.

And the problem went away?

 

[liverpool_for_life]

And the problem went away?

Unlikely, IMO. His description of the problem, and the fact that changing the phase caused the bass to be of a lower level, suggest that his mains and sub are quite likely either constructively or destructively interacting with each other based on where the phase switch is set on the sub. Hence, my query on whether he had the ability to adjust subwoofer distances which will actually help with the problem.

 

[firearm12]

And the problem went away?

Most of the problem is gone after raising the sub, trying to adjust crossover now i think i am satisfied with 47hz.

 

[firearm12]

Unlikely, IMO. His description of the problem, and the fact that changing the phase caused the bass to be of a lower level, suggest that his mains and sub are quite likely either constructively or destructively interacting with each other based on where the phase switch is set on the sub. Hence, my query on whether he had the ability to adjust subwoofer distances which will actually help with the problem.

Vocals are crisp again after raising the sub, weird but true. I have kept the sub in a corner and close to speakers. and feel that due to downward firing passive driver, all bass was being built in that area of the room causing issues. After i raised the sub waves found a way to escape and disperse better (my theory). Bass became more airy and light but vocals are crisp again. Unfortunately i dont have any way to change subwoofer placement because of small room otherwise maybe it can sound better at some place else.

 

[Nitin K]

Vocals are crisp again after raising the sub, weird but true. I have kept the sub in a corner and close to speakers. and feel that due to downward firing passive driver, all bass was being built in that area of the room causing issues. After i raised the sub waves found a way to escape and disperse better (my theory). Bass became more airy and light but vocals are crisp again. Unfortunately i dont have any way to change subwoofer placement because of small room otherwise maybe it can sound better at some place else.

Good you could sort out your bass issue. When the subwoofer is closer to the wall corner, it may sound more boomy.
As you move the subwoofer away from the wall it may sound tighter.

 

[keith_correa]

Unlikely, IMO. His description of the problem, and the fact that changing the phase caused the bass to be of a lower level, suggest that his mains and sub are quite likely either constructively or destructively interacting with each other based on where the phase switch is set on the sub. Hence, my query on whether he had the ability to adjust subwoofer distances which will actually help with the problem.

Which is why I suggested raising the crossover point for the sub.
@firearm12 - can you try getting the sub back on only its legs and raising just the crossover point progressively till you feel the problem goes away?

 

[mpw]

sub in the corner of the room might excite some room nodes too.. so you may try an alternate placement a bit away from the corners..

 

[firearm12]

Which is why I suggested raising the crossover point for the sub.
@firearm12 - can you try getting the sub back on only its legs and raising just the crossover point progressively till you feel the problem goes away?

Thanks for suggestion. I did the same carefully and found out 58hz was the sweet spot where there was little interference with speaker sound. Mids are more crisp and bold now. But somehow i am liking it more when its on the wood blocks, not on ground. That way its even less interfering.

 

[tuff]

Play just the sub with mains off. See how much vocals are bleeding in. Adjust till vocals disappear. Make sure the playback material does not have heavy bassy vocals.

 

[firearm12]

Which is why I suggested raising the crossover point for the sub.
@firearm12 - can you try getting the sub back on only its legs and raising just the crossover point progressively till you feel the problem goes away?

Thanks again for this suggestion, fresh ears in the morning say that bass is much more focussed if i raise crossover to 58hz and coming from right in between the speakers, especially acoustic bass and is not covering up vocals and instruments like it was doing before. I dont have experience with subs but i think this is good sub, not much thump but delicious texture for music. Thanks everyone for suggestions.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Which is why I suggested raising the crossover point for the sub.

Fair enough. In the absence of subwoofer distance manipulation (which TBH is what I'm familiar with), your suggestion ought to work. And, it looks like it did!

 

[Kannan]

It is always great fun and at the same time quite painful to tune subs, especially in a stereo setup, more so if your room gets in the way.
Before you start, you will have to look at subwoofer company recommendation for the model, to go with line level (RCA/phono) output or speaker level output from your source.
Some companies recommend speaker level while others RCA level (in some subs there will be only one choice, so the connection is then straightforward)

If both inputs are available and no specific recommendation is provided, then try both option and see which sounds the best.
In my Wharfedale sub, RCA input sounds the best and is also the one recommended as per its manual.

The approach I normally take when tuning with ears:
Start by putting the sub in the center of the 2 speakers and draw it out by around 18 to 24 inches from the rear wall.
Sit right in front of the sub and play a track with good amount of bass and at your normal listening level, and first set the crossover at close to the roll-off point of the bookshelves.
Then increase the db level (the volume pot) on the sub till you can start to localize the bass note to the sub.
Play around with the phase. Stick to the changed phase if the bass remains tight but loses localization. Go back to the original phase of bass becomes lose and hollow.
Next, go down a point on the crossover and observe. If the bass loses localization, again raise the db level till the localization again starts.
Play with the phase again and stick to one that sounds tight.
Now push back the volume till it feels as if the sub notes are coming out of the bookshelves and not from the sub (you will start to get a sense of height and the sub notes moving further back when you sit right in front of it).

Now move back to you normal listening position and listen. Ask someone else to increase the volume on the sub very very lightly so that is sounds the best without impeding other frequencies.
Switch the sub on and off to listen to its presence and absence.
If you feel the right amount bass with its presence and not hear it off the sub, you are close to its being coherent with the main speakers.
Now again listen at both low and high volumes to ensure that the impact is uniform. If not play around very lightly with the sub volume control to get it just right.

There is no harm is vocals getting weight as long it does not hamper the openness and warmth (should not sound hollowed out).

Play more well-recorded tracks of different genres to ensure what you listen is to your satisfaction.

However if you have the hardware tools and understanding and the interpretation of the software tools, then you can do all this more easily with multiple room placement checks.

 

[[email protected]]

• Try different locations within the room. My room size is 10x15 & my sub is placed in the corner of the room, 1feet away from side wall.
• I am using Polkaudio psw110, crossover between 100-60hz and gain as per volume of speakers.
• keep in mind that if you need to adjust subwoofer gain as you increase or decrease volume on your amplifier, unless you control volume from music source.

 

[robin3989]

It is always great fun and at the same time quite painful to tune subs, especially in a stereo setup, more so if your room gets in the way.
Before you start, you will have to look at subwoofer company recommendation for the model, to go with line level (RCA/phono) output or speaker level output from your source.
Some companies recommend speaker level while others RCA level (in some subs there will be only one choice, so the connection is then straightforward)

If both inputs are available and no specific recommendation is provided, then try both option and see which sounds the best.
In my Wharfedale sub, RCA input sounds the best and is also the one recommended as per its manual.

The approach I normally take when tuning with ears:
Start by putting the sub in the center of the 2 speakers and draw it out by around 18 to 24 inches from the rear wall.
Sit right in front of the sub and play a track with good amount of bass and at your normal listening level, and first set the crossover at close to the roll-off point of the bookshelves.
Then increase the db level (the volume pot) on the sub till you can start to localize the bass note to the sub.
Play around with the phase. Stick to the changed phase if the bass remains tight but loses localization. Go back to the original phase of bass becomes lose and hollow.
Next, go down a point on the crossover and observe. If the bass loses localization, again raise the db level till the localization again starts.
Play with the phase again and stick to one that sounds tight.
Now push back the volume till it feels as if the sub notes are coming out of the bookshelves and not from the sub (you will start to get a sense of height and the sub notes moving further back when you sit right in front of it).

Now move back to you normal listening position and listen. Ask someone else to increase the volume on the sub very very lightly so that is sounds the best without impeding other frequencies.
Switch the sub on and off to listen to its presence and absence.
If you feel the right amount bass with its presence and not hear it off the sub, you are close to its being coherent with the main speakers.
Now again listen at both low and high volumes to ensure that the impact is uniform. If not play around very lightly with the sub volume control to get it just right.

There is no harm is vocals getting weight as long it does not hamper the openness and warmth (should not sound hollowed out).

Play more well-recorded tracks of different genres to ensure what you listen is to your satisfaction.

However if you have the hardware tools and understanding and the interpretation of the software tools, then you can do all this more easily with multiple room placement checks.

Wow! These steps definitely help tune any sub to get it perfectly blend with the mains. I have had the same problems with subwoofer placement when i bought one, and realized there's no perfect spot/exact crossover point for effective bass. Ultimately, trail/error and using ears to decide is the only way to get the placement somewhere near to optimal spot.

 

[arj]

It is always great fun and at the same time quite painful to tune subs, especially in a stereo setup, more so if your room gets in the way.
Before you start, you will have to look at subwoofer company recommendation for the model, to go with line level (RCA/phono) output or speaker level output from your source.
Some companies recommend speaker level while others RCA level (in some subs there will be only one choice, so the connection is then straightforward)

If both inputs are available and no specific recommendation is provided, then try both option and see which sounds the best.
In my Wharfedale sub, RCA input sounds the best and is also the one recommended as per its manual.

The approach I normally take when tuning with ears:
Start by putting the sub in the center of the 2 speakers and draw it out by around 18 to 24 inches from the rear wall.
Sit right in front of the sub and play a track with good amount of bass and at your normal listening level, and first set the crossover at close to the roll-off point of the bookshelves.
Then increase the db level (the volume pot) on the sub till you can start to localize the bass note to the sub.
Play around with the phase. Stick to the changed phase if the bass remains tight but loses localization. Go back to the original phase of bass becomes lose and hollow.
Next, go down a point on the crossover and observe. If the bass loses localization, again raise the db level till the localization again starts.
Play with the phase again and stick to one that sounds tight.
Now push back the volume till it feels as if the sub notes are coming out of the bookshelves and not from the sub (you will start to get a sense of height and the sub notes moving further back when you sit right in front of it).

Now move back to you normal listening position and listen. Ask someone else to increase the volume on the sub very very lightly so that is sounds the best without impeding other frequencies.
Switch the sub on and off to listen to its presence and absence.
If you feel the right amount bass with its presence and not hear it off the sub, you are close to its being coherent with the main speakers.
Now again listen at both low and high volumes to ensure that the impact is uniform. If not play around very lightly with the sub volume control to get it just right.

There is no harm is vocals getting weight as long it does not hamper the openness and warmth (should not sound hollowed out).

Play more well-recorded tracks of different genres to ensure what you listen is to your satisfaction.

However if you have the hardware tools and understanding and the interpretation of the software tools, then you can do all this more easily with multiple room placement checks.

Agree..I used to run 2 RELs at one time and you need to get 3 things position, crossover and volume spot on to integrate the sub.

I found the optimum position was by putting the sub at the listening spot and move around ( on all fours) behind the speakers till you find the spot where bass is the cleanest and loudest. place the sub at the spot where your ear is

2nd step is to get the crossover and volume right. with the RELs the best crossover point is the 10db point of the speaker..can be found by adjusting it ( keeping volume high) where vocals are the cleanest/richest.

3rd is the volume...adjust it to the point where the sub is not standing out when on but is missed when off.
Combination of 2 and 3 gets you the best sound depending on the quality of the sub, but getting it right takes a lot of time

You do need a reference sound of the best quality to set it up first time since different recordings have different characteristics

 

[maxms]

You do need a reference sound of the best quality to set it up fist time since different recordings have different characteristics and hence

Thanks for helpful informations.
Any suggested track for reference sound?

 

[arj]

Thanks for helpful informations.
Any suggested track for reference sound?

The sheffield track & drum record is pretty good as a test.
I have also like Raising Sand by Robert Plant and Allison Krauss - has a really tough bass. Eric Clapton unplugged also has a pretty low drum which is missing in most systems.

 

[gnath]

If you feel the right amount bass with its presence and not hear it off the sub, you are close to its being coherent with the main speakers.

I am a nob in this area. But the procedure stated, made me understand me under stand how to fine adjust my 8" sonodyne sub. After some trial I probably made my HT system sound right ( thanks to corona lock down ).

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Today I experimented by adding a subwoofer to my stereo setup. Surprisingly in addition to adding bass, vocals and mids sound more heavy but not so crisp. Turning phase the other way does not affect vocals and mids so much but bass is also lowered. my mind is confused what is happening. Is this normal or something wrong with sub or I am missing something. Sub is supposed to cutoff at 42hz. it is connected directly to power Amp.

Some possibilities :

1. your sub is gradually rolled off to higher frequencies.
2. The vocal music you played has harmonics in lower frequencies
3. Your amp, or pre amp or dac whatever the sub is connected is producing harmonics in lower notes.

 

[firearm12]

I noticed lately that if the sub is connected through speaker level inputs from poweramp, it affects the quality of sound from speakers especially treble(evn though sub is off). Does anyone have an idea why this happens if this can be fixed by any tweak.