TCL: 3L for no local dimming, 400 nits tv.

I am in the same position. Thinking of buying the OnePlus, but the tcl c715 is qled. OnePlus has good reviews, better processor and good software support. But I am guessing the PQ is similar. I think I'll go for the oneplus because the software experience with oneplus is better.

Yes.. you won't miss much with TCL QLED especially C715.. Better go for OnePlus ... OnePlus community is very active and they will help you on any issue in case you might encounter. .. They also gave frequent FW updates (once in 2 months) on their Q1 series to resolve bugs. .. If you have any bug you can just report it in community which mostly will be resolved in the next FW which is great..

I believe all the additional software features they introduced today like content calender, data saver etc are coming to Q1 series as well.. you will not get such commitment from the likes of Xiaomi, vu, TCL..
 
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I am in the same position. Thinking of buying the OnePlus, but the TCL c715 is qled. OnePlus has good reviews, better processor and good software support. But I am guessing the PQ is similar. I think I'll go for the oneplus because the software experience with oneplus is better.
Even I am confused. I asked Sameer over at digit.in. He did a review for both oneplus and c715. This is what he said. Again he went for the UI.


 
Better ask such questions in DM and refrain from sharing responses. That's why they refrain from answering honestly or even answer in first place. As an publishing house employee they would have certain restrictions about differing from official review.
 
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Lol he dodged the question. Even I asked him on YouTube just PQ wise which would be better. He hasn't replied. Do let me know what you decide.
Yea but I did some check and oneplus looks like a solid deal. I am leaning more towards 1+ as I trust the brand. I have been a user of oneplus for a long time. I ordered the oneplus one phone from US to India even before anyone even heard of the brand. Since then I have been a fan. Love their support and community. So if picture quality isn't too noticeable, I would prefer 1+ even if it's a few extra bucks. But no bloody reviews are comparing them even when they are recent and around same price range lol

Better ask such questions in DM and refrain from sharing responses. That's why they refrain from answering honestly or even answer in first place. As an publishing house employee they would have certain restrictions about differing from official review.
I don't get that though. Both the TV has good reviews so he is in a safe zone. He had both the TV in his house for the review so he could have mentioned which one is better like they might have had done in the official review itself. I mean it's not like digit never had reviews that said 'pick this one as its better at this price range'.

I wish we had more technical review sites. For TCL I saw the same content in different sites as review. Most probably TCL only gave the content lol
 
Hi Guys,

Catching up after long time, so here are my inputs for what it is worth. There were various emotions in this thread which I will hopefully capture and answer here.

TCL intentionally keeps the US market happy for various reasons. It is their biggest market and most reviews in Youtube are from US only. This year they have surpassed LG to become the 2nd biggest seller next only to samsung. Such is their presence there. This is in no way indicative of their global stategy (or lack thereof).

A sane part of you would like to map the behaviour of established brands like Sony, Samsung and LG to the likes of TCL and Hisense. This is where it goes entirely awry. The sonys, samsungs and LGs of the the world spend R&D money to make a product and advertise and sell it worldwide. Few settings could be removed/added here and there or some versions could be present/absent between different countries globally. Sony especially makes sure most of the models are available in most of the places where they do business. Chinese companies DO NOT follow this model at all.

There is no meaning in getting emotional that the highest tech of TCL does not reach indian shores. In fact their global strategy is same. Check out the EU models yourself. https://www.tcl.com/eu/en.html . None of the non US nations get their current tech. None of the models have mini-LED, micro-LED or even local dimming and hover around <500nits for brightness. They want to sell TVs based on the QLED buzzword and compared to the Sony, Samsung or LG, and the reviews from US to their favour. This is just predatory behaviour and questions their motive and what other they are lying about. To start with, why is there a need to build separate TVs for rest of the world when you already have established TVs in various price brackets? Only reason I could think of is to pass off inferior TVs for higher price.

In short, TCL in india or rest of the world never looked like vfm compared to established brands. It always lacks something which when you add will add up to something around the price established brands sell TVs which makes them irrelevant at best and nuisance at worst. You need to consider them in the shortlist and remove them once you realize they are just pranksters after your money.

LED technology itself totally inferior and should have long gone, but just put in the ICU and given life support by samsung with all their ulterior motives and failure to accept failure to produce OLEDs or comparable technologies and move on. They just create buzzwords and irrelevant technologies like 8k, quantum dot, frame insertion, motion compensation, burn-in (OLEDs) etc to beat the dead horse and give the technology in ICU some much needed oxygen. None of the LEDs are ever going to produce picture quality like OLEDs. (period). You can only decorate a donkey so much to make it look like a horse. OLEDs are far superior. If you touch one area, there is going to be issues in other areas or cost is going to be extremely high to implement. In the game to produce decorations to LED technology, they lost picture processing battle to sony too and every year the gap is increasing. Hopefully they move on.

These Chinese manufacturers ride on the same hype train to make it look like QLED or quantum dot is the next big thing. Only QLED in samsung stable itself which is notably good is the Q90 and it is good not because of the QLED but because it is FALD. Sony produces very excellent TVs without QLED using other means to create the desired colour gamut.

If you are looking for dark room or cinematic experience, you can directly chuck out all LED Tvs and look at OLEDs. They are not very costly now. Last year diwali time, one could get LG B series for like 1.1L. This year it could breach 1L limit if you know where to look for 55 inches. With 0% EMI you will hardly be paying few thousands extra per month which is not the biggest of problems like it used to be when OLEDs were upwards of 2L. It is a very good starting point if you dont want to look at clouding and dirty screens whenever there comes a dark scene. Honestly a TV which lets you see the TV instead of the content is just not worth it.

Also, north of 1L, picture processing is all that matters. Sony kills everyone else in that department. So a sony X950 with excellent local dimming can help if you are looking for a bright TV for an always bright room kind of situation.

A TV without FALD or OLED is just not worth the money to anyone in this forum. Those are for simpletons who are upgrading from an age old HD ready TV. Even if you are looking into the clouding, ghosting, uniformity, light bleed kind of issues, those TVs are not for you. Ignorance really bliss in this case. You will end up seeing a blue screen instead of black with clouds and irregularities and bleeds due to uneven backlight if you were ever to choose anything other than a FALD or OLED. Some will learn to live with it, some will crib and some will go into rampant replacements until you are left with one of these, spending more in the process.

Brightness issue:
This is again an overblown issue by samsung because, guess what? They can only archive that with the yesteryear LED technology. OLEDs may look darker in showrooms but at home, oh boy do they perform... I haven't for once not squinted my eyes during the HDR videos and my OLED is just 700nits which would translate lesser in real world.

Indian reviews:
A lot of uninformed tom dick and harry in india are out creating youtube channels just for the advertisement money. I have not seen a reviewer with proper equipment and numbers. The most fault they find is of volume not being loud or being tinny or that some apps not present or not working and the like. These bunch of people are direct converts from mobile reviewers (the poorer ones). They know nothing on TV reviews or even which is better if you were to calibrate and place 2 TVs in front of them. There are these other group of claimed reviewers who are totally clueless and parrot the first set of reviewers and have never seen a TV in person. These are the worst bunch but with less than ideal IQ and more than required self-respect. You have no choice other than to ignore them. Daily 1000s of people fall for these reviews and are left with sub standard TVs.

Baseline:
Avoid LEDs if you can and go with OLEDs.
If LEDs are must, go with the FALD ones. Not much options here, Toshiba U79, U80 or Sony X950 depending on budget. (Toshiba is hisense produced in ex-toshiba fsctories).
If both are not possible, or if looking for <50", go with DLEDs without local dimming but never Edge LED lit ones.
Look for DCI-P3 colour gamut %. Should be > 90%. QLED is only one way to archieve this, not the only way. Some TVs only mention wide colour gamut/HDR and not numbers. They are fishy and need more looking into.
FALD with >90 DCI-P3 will generally serve well in the <1L bracket. More than this, you need only a sony for picture processing. I will go on to say, if you are crossing 1L, go with any sony (minus 900H) or one of the LG OLEDs.

Finally, The TCL 6 series and up and Hisense H8G and up are critically acclaimed TVs not because of being a QLED but because of being a FALD. Otherwise they would have been lost in the crowd like numerous other TVs. They don't make sense in the indian or outside of US context other than just mudding the waters.

Look at TCL6 with local dimming on and off below and decide for yourself if you can live with a non FALD TV. (start from ~10minutes)


 
If both are not possible, or if looking for <50", go with DLEDs without local dimming but never Edge LED lit ones.
Can you elaborate on this please? I have been eyeing the Sony X7500H and it is DLED 55" and above. One advantage I found in case of ELED is I the dirty screen effect was not at all visible when I played a uniformity test demo on the 43" and 49" models at the store. On the 55" it wasn't too hard to spot. Very well in line with the Rtings review. Though I personally felt it wouldn't be that distracting in day to day content.

Look for DCI-P3 colour gamut %. Should be > 90%.
Rtings doesn't assign a lot of importance to the DCI-P3 %. 6% weight on their overall score for HDR gaming and movies and no weightage in case of SDR content. I think this makes sense because there isn't much source material out there that takes advantage of such a huge gamut. I mean real life isn't that colorful :p. Its all greyish tones so the same reflects in most movies. On the other hand, it would make a difference in sci-fi, pixar/animated movies and video games. But still its just at 6%

Look at TCL6 with local dimming on and off below and decide for yourself if you can live with a non FALD TV. (start from ~10minutes)
This was interesting! I don't think it is a good example of the point you're trying to make though. It just reflects how poor the black uniformity is on the TCL 6. See here. Rtings gave it a 6.7 on black uniformity. So I am guessing it wouldn't have look so bad if it had a good black uniformity.
 
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I think this makes sense because there isn't much source material out there that takes advantage of such a huge gamut.

HDR content is mastered on BT.2020 colour space which is much wider than DCI P3 even. Also, lower DCI P3 gamut also means lower Rec. 2020/BT.2020 gamut and lower colour volume too. Not sure what's the weightage but for all these tests (P3, rec 2020, and colour volumes) should be higher than 6%.

So, there's a lot of content which does take advantage of wide colour gamut. And DCI P3 is a fairly narrow colour gamut and a fairly low bar to clear IMHO.

I mean real life isn't that colorful :p.

Well, movies aren't real life. And the reason movies aren't graded on this wide colout gamut is because TVs aren't capable and people won't be able to appreciate that gamut. That's why we settled on rec. 601 earlier with SD content, then moved to rec. 709 with HD. Then DCI P3 recently but then we decided to go for rec 2020 directly with HDR content for future proofing.

Movies, especially animated ones and ones depicting fantasy can be surrealistic. No one benefits from stagnant standards.
 
Can you elaborate on this please? I have been eyeing the Sony X7500H and it is DLED 55" and above. One advantage I found in case of ELED is I the dirty screen effect was not at all visible when I played a uniformity test demo on the 43" and 49" models at the store. On the 55" it wasn't too hard to spot. Very well in line with the Rtings review. Though I personally felt it wouldn't be that distracting in day to day content.

Did you check in low light/dark scenarios? I would suggest go look at one of your friend's house late evening though it is harder with ongoing situation.
DLED or ELED it is going to be a compromise without local dimming. But where the ambient blooming appears makes all the difference.
DLED - It happens around the highlighted bright spot, at least inline with the screen contents and not distracting. Software enhancements like micro dimming needs to work with lesser area proportional to the content and generally produces better results.
ELED - The blooms appear all over the place because it is dependent on the positioning of the LEDs more than the content itself. Entire vertical section need to be illuminated and micro dimming algorithm needs to consider LED positions. But the tech is there to save cost from FALT to start with and FSLD is easier and consequently it is never perfect.
Most real world contents have black bars to various degrees and (white) subtitle. Seeing a gray bar after spending lots on a TV will only result in buyer remorse whatever is the cost range.
Origins of ELED is again attributed to samsung's list of stupid decisions steering the entire TV market in the wrong direction. This was introduced to save a few mm of thickness of already thin LEDs of the past (as if that the major issue back then) and is sticking around like a sore thumb till today. Flagship TVs were never ELED (unless it was a samsung) historically because of poor pq produced as a result.

Rtings doesn't assign a lot of importance to the DCI-P3 %. 6% weight on their overall score for HDR gaming and movies and no weightage in case of SDR content. I think this makes sense because there isn't much source material out there that takes advantage of such a huge gamut. I mean real life isn't that colorful :p. Its all greyish tones so the same reflects in most movies. On the other hand, it would make a difference in sci-fi, pixar/animated movies and video games. But still its just at 6%

What do you mean reality is not so colourful? Wide colour gamut is still lesser than what human eye can see. If you looked into the plasma TVs and compared with LCD TVs of the past, you could see wastly different colour saturation from the plasmas. All OLEDs today are 100% DCI P3 complaint and you can easily make out against the LEDs.
LED TVs increased in colour gamut only after the 4k era and with the advent of HDR. If you were to compare today's LEDs with plasmas, it would be much closer but still behind. It has nothing to do with the content but the representation of the content and still does not cover all colours that human eye can see. (capped at 1.06 billion)
If you get a lesser colour performant tv, the panel is mostly a remnant of yesteryear technology or manufacturing and hence better avoided. In fact wide colour gamut is the greatest invention in LED in past few years more so than the switch from 1080p->4k. IMO it is very important.
If RTings are assigning only 6% to WCG, they are doing it wrong.

This was interesting! I don't think it is a good example of the point you're trying to make though. It just reflects how poor the black uniformity is on the TCL 6. See here. Rtings gave it a 6.7 on black uniformity. So I am guessing it wouldn't have look so bad if it had a good black uniformity.

The intent is to highlight the bleed and not the uniformity. Local dimming cuts off the source and hence removing any need question of bleed. You will be equally unhappy in a situation where the panel is perfectly uniform but glows like crazy. Applies irrespective of the screen uniformity.
 
Also I think for buying tv we have to think about the next 5 years.The way technology is evolving we will see a lot more content taking advantage WCG.Look at apple tv+ almost its entire catalogue is 4K HDR.Most of the new shows netflix is producing is in HDR.Not to mention amount of new HDR games coming on PS5 and Xbox X.
 
Hi Guys,

Catching up after long time, so here are my inputs for what it is worth. There were various emotions in this thread which I will hopefully capture and answer here.

TCL intentionally keeps the US market happy for various reasons. It is their biggest market and most reviews in Youtube are from US only. This year they have surpassed LG to become the 2nd biggest seller next only to samsung. Such is their presence there. This is in no way indicative of their global stategy (or lack thereof).

A sane part of you would like to map the behaviour of established brands like Sony, Samsung and LG to the likes of TCL and Hisense. This is where it goes entirely awry. The sonys, samsungs and LGs of the the world spend R&D money to make a product and advertise and sell it worldwide. Few settings could be removed/added here and there or some versions could be present/absent between different countries globally. Sony especially makes sure most of the models are available in most of the places where they do business. Chinese companies DO NOT follow this model at all.

There is no meaning in getting emotional that the highest tech of TCL does not reach indian shores. In fact their global strategy is same. Check out the EU models yourself. https://www.tcl.com/eu/en.html . None of the non US nations get their current tech. None of the models have mini-LED, micro-LED or even local dimming and hover around <500nits for brightness. They want to sell TVs based on the QLED buzzword and compared to the Sony, Samsung or LG, and the reviews from US to their favour. This is just predatory behaviour and questions their motive and what other they are lying about. To start with, why is there a need to build separate TVs for rest of the world when you already have established TVs in various price brackets? Only reason I could think of is to pass off inferior TVs for higher price.

In short, TCL in india or rest of the world never looked like vfm compared to established brands. It always lacks something which when you add will add up to something around the price established brands sell TVs which makes them irrelevant at best and nuisance at worst. You need to consider them in the shortlist and remove them once you realize they are just pranksters after your money.

LED technology itself totally inferior and should have long gone, but just put in the ICU and given life support by samsung with all their ulterior motives and failure to accept failure to produce OLEDs or comparable technologies and move on. They just create buzzwords and irrelevant technologies like 8k, quantum dot, frame insertion, motion compensation, burn-in (OLEDs) etc to beat the dead horse and give the technology in ICU some much needed oxygen. None of the LEDs are ever going to produce picture quality like OLEDs. (period). You can only decorate a donkey so much to make it look like a horse. OLEDs are far superior. If you touch one area, there is going to be issues in other areas or cost is going to be extremely high to implement. In the game to produce decorations to LED technology, they lost picture processing battle to sony too and every year the gap is increasing. Hopefully they move on.

These Chinese manufacturers ride on the same hype train to make it look like QLED or quantum dot is the next big thing. Only QLED in samsung stable itself which is notably good is the Q90 and it is good not because of the QLED but because it is FALD. Sony produces very excellent TVs without QLED using other means to create the desired colour gamut.

If you are looking for dark room or cinematic experience, you can directly chuck out all LED Tvs and look at OLEDs. They are not very costly now. Last year diwali time, one could get LG B series for like 1.1L. This year it could breach 1L limit if you know where to look for 55 inches. With 0% EMI you will hardly be paying few thousands extra per month which is not the biggest of problems like it used to be when OLEDs were upwards of 2L. It is a very good starting point if you dont want to look at clouding and dirty screens whenever there comes a dark scene. Honestly a TV which lets you see the TV instead of the content is just not worth it.

Also, north of 1L, picture processing is all that matters. Sony kills everyone else in that department. So a sony X950 with excellent local dimming can help if you are looking for a bright TV for an always bright room kind of situation.

A TV without FALD or OLED is just not worth the money to anyone in this forum. Those are for simpletons who are upgrading from an age old HD ready TV. Even if you are looking into the clouding, ghosting, uniformity, light bleed kind of issues, those TVs are not for you. Ignorance really bliss in this case. You will end up seeing a blue screen instead of black with clouds and irregularities and bleeds due to uneven backlight if you were ever to choose anything other than a FALD or OLED. Some will learn to live with it, some will crib and some will go into rampant replacements until you are left with one of these, spending more in the process.

Brightness issue:
This is again an overblown issue by samsung because, guess what? They can only archive that with the yesteryear LED technology. OLEDs may look darker in showrooms but at home, oh boy do they perform... I haven't for once not squinted my eyes during the HDR videos and my OLED is just 700nits which would translate lesser in real world.

Indian reviews:
A lot of uninformed tom dick and harry in india are out creating youtube channels just for the advertisement money. I have not seen a reviewer with proper equipment and numbers. The most fault they find is of volume not being loud or being tinny or that some apps not present or not working and the like. These bunch of people are direct converts from mobile reviewers (the poorer ones). They know nothing on TV reviews or even which is better if you were to calibrate and place 2 TVs in front of them. There are these other group of claimed reviewers who are totally clueless and parrot the first set of reviewers and have never seen a TV in person. These are the worst bunch but with less than ideal IQ and more than required self-respect. You have no choice other than to ignore them. Daily 1000s of people fall for these reviews and are left with sub standard TVs.

Baseline:
Avoid LEDs if you can and go with OLEDs.
If LEDs are must, go with the FALD ones. Not much options here, Toshiba U79, U80 or Sony X950 depending on budget. (Toshiba is hisense produced in ex-toshiba fsctories).
If both are not possible, or if looking for <50", go with DLEDs without local dimming but never Edge LED lit ones.
Look for DCI-P3 colour gamut %. Should be > 90%. QLED is only one way to archieve this, not the only way. Some TVs only mention wide colour gamut/HDR and not numbers. They are fishy and need more looking into.
FALD with >90 DCI-P3 will generally serve well in the <1L bracket. More than this, you need only a sony for picture processing. I will go on to say, if you are crossing 1L, go with any sony (minus 900H) or one of the LG OLEDs.

Finally, The TCL 6 series and up and Hisense H8G and up are critically acclaimed TVs not because of being a QLED but because of being a FALD. Otherwise they would have been lost in the crowd like numerous other TVs. They don't make sense in the indian or outside of US context other than just mudding the waters.

Look at TCL6 with local dimming on and off below and decide for yourself if you can live with a non FALD TV. (start from ~10minutes)


I totally agree with every word you have written in above post. But not Everyone can afford or want to go for tvs worth 1L plus. So What all options you suggest other than little options you have already provided?
 
Not sure what's the weightage but for all these tests (P3, rec 2020, and colour volumes) should be higher than 6%.
Yeah its 6% to the gamut and another 6% to the volume. Acc to them, for HDR movies

23% Contrast
15% Local Dimming
14% HDR Peak Brightness
9% Black Uniformity
6% Color Gamut
6% Color Volume
5% Gray Uniformity
5% Stutter
4% 24p Judder
4% 4k Input
3% HDR ABL
2% Pre Calibration
2% Gradient
1% Post Calibration
<1% HDR10
<1% HDR10+
<1% Dolby Vision

I am sure they'd have kept it higher if it was relevant for content today. The other parameters are more important comparatively.
And like you said, DCI P3 is a low bar. This line of reasoning makes it unimportant too then. Not everyone is clearing the bar for other higher weighted parameters. So they become more important PQ wise. One more thing for this could simply be perception.

Anyway, they keep updating their test methodology. Maybe down the line, they'll have more weightage to this.
 
DLED - It happens around the highlighted bright spot, at least inline with the screen contents and not distracting. Software enhancements like micro dimming needs to work with lesser area proportional to the content and generally produces better results.
ELED - The blooms appear all over the place because it is dependent on the positioning of the LEDs more than the content itself. Entire vertical section need to be illuminated and micro dimming algorithm needs to consider LED positions. But the tech is there to save cost from FALT to start with and FSLD is easier and consequently it is never perfect.
Okay! Thanks for explaining

The intent is to highlight the bleed and not the uniformity. Local dimming cuts off the source and hence removing any need question of bleed. You will be equally unhappy in a situation where the panel is perfectly uniform but glows like crazy. Applies irrespective of the screen uniformity.
You are confusing between the grey uniformity test and the black uniformity test. The latter also tests for bleeding/glowing and is what I was referring to.
My point being that shit with the TCL 6 in this case is not due to lack of local dimming (LD) but due to poor black uniformity.
For TCL 6 2020 LD ON, LD OFF
On the other hand for TCL 6 2019, LD ON, LD OFF.

As you can see, turning LD off doesn't cause the panel bleed/glow so badly. If the black uniformity is good, not all non-FALD displays would bleed like the TCL 6 2020. Better examples can be given but I just took model from same TCL series for the sake of it.

Again, you are right but you just picked a wrong example.
 
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DCI P3 is a low bar.

We are discussing in the TCL thread which by itself in the indian context is low cost/low bar.
Consensus is, if you find 2 TVs in the vicinity (like within 5k) and one provides shady details and other provides DCI-P3 numbers crossing 90% and other does not, preference should be to the one with better numbers. This should have more priority than say the TV is few nits brighter. (Not sure how much weightage RTings gives to nits, anything there?)
LG, Sony, Samsung of today should all satisfy but I cannot be so sure. This is for the oneplus, nokia, iffalcon, toshiba, TCL, hisense etc. Few are here to dump old technology for not only low price but also low value. Low price, high value is what to look for in that range.
 
Okay! Thanks for explaining


You are confusing between the grey uniformity test and the black uniformity test. The latter also tests for bleeding/glowing and is what I was referring to.
My point being that shit with the TCL 6 in this case is not due to lack of local dimming (LD) but due to poor black uniformity.
For TCL 6 2020 LD ON, LD OFF
On the other hand for TCL 6 2019, LD ON, LD OFF.

As you can see, turning LD off doesn't cause the panel bleed/glow so badly. If the black uniformity is good, not all non-FALD displays would bleed like the TCL 6 2020. Better examples can be given but I just took model from same TCL series for the sake of it.

Again, you are right but you just picked a wrong example.

I just considered LD OFF == non FALD, which is true mostly but non FALD would have other mechanisms to counter in the absence of FD. Took TCL example since this is a TCL thread.

I don't understand what you are trying to imply between 2020 and 2019 TCL6. Both look same from details in your post. Both were FALD.
 
Yeah its 6% to the gamut and another 6% to the volume. Acc to them, for HDR movies

23% Contrast
15% Local Dimming
14% HDR Peak Brightness
9% Black Uniformity
6% Color Gamut
6% Color Volume
5% Gray Uniformity
5% Stutter
4% 24p Judder
4% 4k Input
3% HDR ABL
2% Pre Calibration
2% Gradient
1% Post Calibration
<1% HDR10
<1% HDR10+
<1% Dolby Vision

This looks good except I am not sure of black uniformity vs gray uniformity difference. 14% for overall screen uniformity is a bit high considering it varies from TVs within same model because of production tolerances. Do they measure 2-3 TVs and average out? Otherwise this will be a hit or miss mostly.

And IMO, Colour Gamut + Colour volume should be > HDR peak brightness + SDR Peak brightness and hence be swapped.
Surprised there is no separate weightage for SDR peak brightness. Almost all of the content in indian context is SDR. (Like 99%)

Good HDR peak brightness does not directly mean good SDR peak brightness unless all TVs of 2020 behave in the manner.
 
Surprised there is no separate weightage for SDR peak brightness. Almost all of the content in indian context is SDR. (Like 99%)

Why would there be separate weightage for SDR peak brightness in HDR movies category?

And about the whole 99% of content is SDR and likely 1080p or below, you don't buy these high-end TVs for that. If you don't have a Netflix/Prime subscription (ignoring Hotstar here since even their 4k looks worse than regular 1080p) or a collection of 4k HDR movies, these TVs will do almost nothing for you.

Even if the TV is brighter for SDR, it doesn't matter as much as for HDR. HDR10 is mastered up to 1000 nits and is actually displayed as is due to EOTF curve vs using a gamma curve for SDR. SDR content is mastered for 100-nits so while it will look brighter on a higher-end TV it won't look that much better. You won't get the higher dynamic range out of the content even if your display supports it.

That's what TCL, OnePlus etc are targeting. Those folks do care about the HDR10+ and Dolby Vision printed on the box, but watch their regular cable anyway. They love these TVs as they won't be able to tell the difference anyway with these 300-400 nit TVs.

And IMO, Colour Gamut + Colour volume should be > HDR peak brightness + SDR Peak brightness and hence be swapped.

I disagree. For HDR content, if your display can't cross 500 nits, it won't even be able to display it properly. As I mentioned earlier, HDR10 content is mastered for 1000 nits and is displayed as-is. So say in one scene a bright bulb is 400 nits and next scene sun is 1000 nits, for a 400 nit TV both will appear the same. You can mitigate this issue with dynamic tone mapping of Dolby Vision or by using a renderer like MadVR, but for these cheap TVs those won't be a solution.

This isn't an issue with SDR content as it uses a gamma curve. So for example, if something was mastered for 70 nits/100, it will just follow the gamma curve and be scaled for your brightness according to the output. Now, this is an inferior approach as you aren't getting what the creator intended and that's why the industry shifted to using EOTF rather than gamma.

There's also the HLG(hybrid log gamma) HDR standard which is backwards compatible with SDR only TVs, but that's mostly for HDR broadcasts (hopefully soon in India too).

Good HDR peak brightness does not directly mean good SDR peak brightness unless all TVs of 2020 behave in the manner.
True, but it generally does. And rtings does take good SDR peak brightness into account. Also, as mentioned peak SDR brightness doesn't matter much. I'd say it's pretty meaningless beyond say 500-nits. 1000-nit peak brightness in SDR will just sear your eyes for no good reason, which is why TVs capable of such still don't get that bright in SDR.
 
Why would there be separate weightage for SDR peak brightness in HDR movies category?

And about the whole 99% of content is SDR and likely 1080p or below, you don't buy these high-end TVs for that. If you don't have a Netflix/Prime subscription (ignoring Hotstar here since even their 4k looks worse than regular 1080p) or a collection of 4k HDR movies, these TVs will do almost nothing for you.

Even if the TV is brighter for SDR, it doesn't matter as much as for HDR. HDR10 is mastered up to 1000 nits and is actually displayed as is due to EOTF curve vs using a gamma curve for SDR. SDR content is mastered for 100-nits so while it will look brighter on a higher-end TV it won't look that much better. You won't get the higher dynamic range out of the content even if your display supports it.

That's what TCL, OnePlus etc are targeting. Those folks do care about the HDR10+ and Dolby Vision printed on the box, but watch their regular cable anyway. They love these TVs as they won't be able to tell the difference anyway with these 300-400 nit TVs.



I disagree. For HDR content, if your display can't cross 500 nits, it won't even be able to display it properly. As I mentioned earlier, HDR10 content is mastered for 1000 nits and is displayed as-is. So say in one scene a bright bulb is 400 nits and next scene sun is 1000 nits, for a 400 nit TV both will appear the same. You can mitigate this issue with dynamic tone mapping of Dolby Vision or by using a renderer like MadVR, but for these cheap TVs those won't be a solution.

This isn't an issue with SDR content as it uses a gamma curve. So for example, if something was mastered for 70 nits/100, it will just follow the gamma curve and be scaled for your brightness according to the output. Now, this is an inferior approach as you aren't getting what the creator intended and that's why the industry shifted to using EOTF rather than gamma.

There's also the HLG(hybrid log gamma) HDR standard which is backwards compatible with SDR only TVs, but that's mostly for HDR broadcasts (hopefully soon in India too).


True, but it generally does. And rtings does take good SDR peak brightness into account. Also, as mentioned peak SDR brightness doesn't matter much. I'd say it's pretty meaningless beyond say 500-nits. 1000-nit peak brightness in SDR will just sear your eyes for no good reason, which is why TVs capable of such still don't get that bright in SDR.

Agree to all but my question is different.
Today buying anything less than a 4k TV is meaningless.
And a lot of people buy 4k TVs for bright room viewing and a 100-200nit vs 500nit in bright room makes a huge difference even though the content is only mastered for 100 nits.
My question was, have all the 2020 TVs crossed a certain threshold like 300-400nits for SDR to make it irrelevant as a measure?
Apparently these %s are from HDR section so that makes the question void.

There is difference between a TV with 500 nits HDR and 100 nits SDR vs 500 nits for both. Till some years ago the former was mainstream. Not sure of today.
 
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I totally agree with every word you have written in above post. But not Everyone can afford or want to go for tvs worth 1L plus. So What all options you suggest other than little options you have already provided?

For that, I have to look around current options.
Generally you can get an idea from the price vs technology vs generally what the brand stands for. But without seeing the TVs, it will be like one of the Indian reviewers giving their own opinion.

There are a list of TVs I have seen in the past and was surprised against the price. I will post them here in another post with compromises and pros vs cons. If the companies are standing by their DNA, it will apply to today's series too. But as a buyer, you need to validate.

Best is to create a separate thread for "Home demo requests" where people can request home demo for a particular Tv or advertise their Tvs for others to home demo. I would be surprised if you cannot find a member in your vicinity/city who owns one of the models you have shortlisted. I have been to many such member's houses and if not anything, you get free beer. ;)
This happens widely in the hifi section but not so much in the TV section apparently. But agree this is the worst time for such home visits given the ongoing situation.
 
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