The "Chindi" HT Setup Queries

[papabear01]

Hey guys papabear01 here , just joined a few days back . Observed quite a few threads here on HFV and got one thing straight there is no single solution to room acoustics and optimizing sound quality. so i humbly request if the gurus would take a look at the layout of my room and help me out with the following queries :

1) Room Acoustics : I cannot buy any acoustic panels or expensive mods to tweak my room , so i would love to take advantage of the Indian "Jugaad" (my parent's apartment )

2) Speaker Placements : although i know the guidelines but i'm not sure if the rear speakers are gonna be far enough from the seating location which is a bed see pics for more clarity.

3) Power conditioning : i have a microtek 800VA double battery UPS but i'm not sure if it's good enough to handle the power requirements so kindly suggest what else can i use based on gadgets that i own that would make up the setup.

I own the following :

For Video : Samsung LCD 37" :37" full high definition LCD TV - Series 5 37inch (LA37A550) - Archive - Television | SAMSUNG

For Audio :Logitech Z-5500 :Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speaker System

Sources : Xbox 360 (Jasper) :Jasper Is Here: A Look at the New Xbox 360 - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News
Coming soon PS3 Slim (40nm RSX) :Techtree.com India > News > Gaming > PS3 Slim Console Refreshed with 40nm GPU


Thanks for looking

 

[papabear01]

83 views and 0 replies , is my setup below standard to expect a reply ?

 

[hemantwaghe]

wait let us study..bro.................

 

[entsurgeon]

first advise although a meagre one...: do something about that hanging lamp... better than spending on a new lamp simply make it non-chattersome by indigenious ideas, ditto with glass panels of ur showcase. it has large reflective surface. second:it may not b easy to procure in u.p. but a sliding mumbai type sofa cum bed would give u lot of open area between seating position and front speakerswhen folded up.
whats the second door- on right extreme of rear wall for?? is it possible to keep one of the door permanently closed?

 

[vinay]

Studio Apartment

Is your house a studio apartment?

If yes, then i think such houses are the best for a private theatre at home, though with tough riders.

V.

 

[venkatcr]

Papabear, I am going to very frank (and maybe even a bit brutal) with my replies.

At the outset, you really cannot build a HT system with Logitech speakers. I understand that people have budgetary constraints, but then expecting Maruti 800 to behave like a Mercedes will be an act of wasted time.

Secondly, if you want a reasonably good HT system, you room has to be transformed. The cupboard has to be removed, Many of the doors and windows have to be covered, and extensive acoustics have to be done. I also understand this cannot be done in a bedroom. A bedroom is meant to sleep in. If you want to use a bedroom as a HT room, something has to be compromised. If sleeping is important, then HT requirements have to be compromised. If HT is important, then some storage and comforts have to be compromised.

1) Room Acoustics : I cannot buy any acoustic panels or expensive mods to tweak my room , so i would love to take advantage of the Indian "Jugaad" (my parent's apartment )

Indian juggads as you call them simply do not work. I have seen people use cowdung on the walls and paint the wall with mud. All this may look good on TV, but have zero value for sound acoustics. The cheapest you can do is two:

1. Make simple acoustical panels and mount them on the wall. The panels would be, in their simplest form, a wooden frame filled with glass wool and covered with some form of cloth for aesthetics.

2. Purchase some heavy drapes and hang them where ever you feel there is reflection.

2) Speaker Placements : although i know the guidelines but i'm not sure if the rear speakers are gonna be far enough from the seating location which is a bed see pics for more clarity.

One of the simplest form of solving this problem will be to mount the speakers on the ceiling within an inexpensive false ceiling. Unfortunately you cannot do this with Logitech speakers. The cheapest way of doing this would be to get Philips ceiling speakers that would cost you some 2000 each. Local speakers can be had for less than 1000.

3) Power conditioning : i have a microtek 800VA double battery UPS but i'm not sure if it's good enough to handle the power requirements so kindly suggest what else can i use based on gadgets that i own that would make up the setup.

The Microtek UPS is meant for computers, not for audio systems. There are a number of threads where power conditioning requirements have been discussed in detail. Please search for your answers. Again, what you have to do is to calculate the maximum power consumption of all your audio units, add 50% at a minimum, and get a power stabiliser that can handle that requirement as well have EMI and RFI filters.

Cheers

 

[papabear01]

first advise although a meagre one...: do something about that hanging lamp... better than spending on a new lamp simply make it non-chattersome by indigenious ideas, ditto with glass panels of ur showcase. it has large reflective surface. second:it may not b easy to procure in u.p. but a sliding mumbai type sofa cum bed would give u lot of open area between seating position and front speakerswhen folded up.
whats the second door- on right extreme of rear wall for?? is it possible to keep one of the door permanently closed?

thanks buddy points taken , btw the second door is a way into the balcony.

Is your house a studio apartment?

If yes, then i think such houses are the best for a private theatre at home, though with tough riders.

V.

no dude, it's a duplex , but it's close to what a studio apartment might look like

Papabear, I am going to very frank (and maybe even a bit brutal) with my replies.

At the outset, you really cannot build a HT system with Logitech speakers. I understand that people have budgetary constraints, but then expecting Maruti 800 to behave like a Mercedes will be an act of wasted time.

Secondly, if you want a reasonably good HT system, you room has to be transformed. The cupboard has to be removed, Many of the doors and windows have to be covered, and extensive acoustics have to be done. I also understand this cannot be done in a bedroom. A bedroom is meant to sleep in. If you want to use a bedroom as a HT room, something has to be compromised. If sleeping is important, then HT requirements have to be compromised. If HT is important, then some storage and comforts have to be compromised.
Indian juggads as you call them simply do not work. I have seen people use cowdung on the walls and paint the wall with mud. All this may look good on TV, but have zero value for sound acoustics. The cheapest you can do is two:
1. Make simple acoustical panels and mount them on the wall. The panels would be, in their simplest form, a wooden frame filled with glass wool and covered with some form of cloth for aesthetics.
2. Purchase some heavy drapes and hang them where ever you feel there is reflection.
One of the simplest form of solving this problem will be to mount the speakers on the ceiling within an inexpensive false ceiling. Unfortunately you cannot do this with Logitech speakers. The cheapest way of doing this would be to get Philips ceiling speakers that would cost you some 2000 each. Local speakers can be had for less than 1000.

i agree that my system isn't the best one around , and that is what the thread title signifies , nonetheless thanks for your suggestions , but i'm unfortunate that i cannot make any modifications into the room apart from shifting the cupboard out and hanging those drapes you suggested. so really sorry.

btw , is it a big leap over sound quality in acoustic panels vs plastered walls ?and is it worth the attempt with speakers such as mine ?

The Microtek UPS is meant for computers, not for audio systems. There are a number of threads where power conditioning requirements have been discussed in detail. Please search for your answers. Again, what you have to do is to calculate the maximum power consumption of all your audio units, add 50% at a minimum, and get a power stabiliser that can handle that requirement as well have EMI and RFI filters.

here's the thing my speaker system resets (settings) if it's shutdown inappropriately like if after powercut . now a stabiliser would only ensure my system receives clean power , but how do i handle the resets and get just enough time to shut it down appropriately ?

 

[venkatcr]

btw , is it a big leap over sound quality in acoustic panels vs plastered walls ?and is it worth the attempt with speakers such as mine ?

I will posting a detailed thread on the acoustics work I have recently undertaken on my HT room. Let me say this simply - I don't feel like leaving the room at all now, and I don't feel like going to cinema hall. That is the difference a good acoustics can make.

Though acoustics will make a difference to sound with ANY speakers, at the end of the day, it is all a question of cost.

here's the thing my speaker system resets (settings) if it's shutdown inappropriately like if after powercut . now a stabiliser would only ensure my system receives clean power , but how do i handle the resets and get just enough time to shut it down appropriately ?

You do need a UPS. Try to get a UPS that outputs pure sine wave. Unfortunately these are expensive.

Cheers

 

[vinay]

The Power Of A Good Home Theatre

Well you took up the acoustics work on your home theatre without taking views from forum members? I always think that how much ever knowledge we may have, others can also add points for a better result. In other words quite often i see that during the making of a private theatre suggestions are not sought, or even if they are sought then it is on lower profile etc.

I have always said that make a private theatre only when good budget is available, make it in such a way that you give up going to a theatre, acoustics and many other things that can make a difference to the theatre, so jai ho to the making of your home theatre room.

V.

I will posting a detailed thread on the acoustics work I have recently undertaken on my HT room. Let me say this simply - I don't feel like leaving the room at all now, and I don't feel like going to cinema hall. That is the difference a good acoustics can make.

 

[venkatcr]

Re: The Power Of A Good Home Theatre

Well you took up the acoustics work on your home theatre without taking views from forum members? I always think that how much ever knowledge we may have, others can also add points for a better result. In other words quite often i see that during the making of a private theatre suggestions are not sought, or even if they are sought then it is on lower profile etc.

I have always said that make a private theatre only when good budget is available, make it in such a way that you give up going to a theatre, acoustics and many other things that can make a difference to the theatre, so jai ho to the making of your home theatre room.

V.

Vinay, I DID take the suggestions of a number of members including Santhosh, Dr. Bass, Srinisundar, Raj, George, Sam, Sanjay, Kapvin and others. I spoke to many of these people on the phone. I also took the help of some of the best acoustics professionals in the country.

AND, I waited for nearly two years before making my HT room. And the waiting was for money.

Cheers

 

[marsilians]

btw , is it a big leap over sound quality in acoustic panels vs plastered walls ?and is it worth the attempt with speakers such as mine ?

While most people tend to ignore this, room treatment of which acoustic panels is one type is one of the cost cost effective tweaks to get the best out of a setup. I have seen people spend lakhs of Rs. to upgrade equipment due to dissatisfaction while a small investment in treatments would have given them a better return. something to keep in mind.

to be frank with your setup the returns will be limited as Logitech are good for some gaming stuff but not for music or HT.

 

[papabear01]

I will posting a detailed thread on the acoustics work I have recently undertaken on my HT room. Let me say this simply - I don't feel like leaving the room at all now, and I don't feel like going to cinema hall. That is the difference a good acoustics can make.
Though acoustics will make a difference to sound with ANY speakers, at the end of the day, it is all a question of cost.

thanks buddy looking forward to that tutorial . btw just out of curiosity is the acoustic treatment required to be done on all the exposed walls including ceilings ?

You do need a UPS. Try to get a UPS that outputs pure sine wave. Unfortunately these are expensive.
Cheers

which brands would you suggest that get the work done at minimal costs ?

While most people tend to ignore this, room treatment of which acoustic panels is one type is one of the cost cost effective tweaks to get the best out of a setup. I have seen people spend lakhs of Rs. to upgrade equipment due to dissatisfaction while a small investment in treatments would have given them a better return. something to keep in mind.

to be frank with your setup the returns will be limited as Logitech are good for some gaming stuff but not for music or HT.

thanks buddy , but actually mine is a gaming dedicated setup with mild movie watching sessions here and there . Source - 360 and PS3 post #1.

 

[venkatcr]

which brands would you suggest that get the work done at minimal costs ?

I think APC is the best. But, they are not cheap.

Cheers

 

[Kittu]

You can also look @ pure sinewave inverter.

 

[psychotropic]

to deviate from what some people are saying. I don't think there's anything wrong with using a Logitech setup for HT purposes. I've never heard the setup myself. But to clarify my position. I am an 'audiophile' and spend a lot of time and effort tweaking my stereo setup for music. At the same time I use a 5000 buck Philips 5.1 speaker setup for movies, and with the limited calibration options available on my Philips DVD player with 5.1 analog outs (loudness, delay etc.,) i've been able to put together a very satisfying setup for movies, which is a paradigm shift from using TV speakers. Of course it's not audiophile, but it's fun, and if you're not too fussy, that's really all you need

I don't know jack about room treatments, so I'll leave that to the experts, but I just wanted to mention that happiness can come in small (and cheap) packages as well.

 

[venkatcr]

to deviate from what some people are saying. I don't think there's anything wrong with using a Logitech setup for HT purposes. I've never heard the setup myself. But to clarify my position. I am an 'audiophile' and spend a lot of time and effort tweaking my stereo setup for music. At the same time I use a 5000 buck Philips 5.1 speaker setup for movies, and with the limited calibration options available on my Philips DVD player with 5.1 analog outs (loudness, delay etc.,) i've been able to put together a very satisfying setup for movies, which is a paradigm shift from using TV speakers. Of course it's not audiophile, but it's fun, and if you're not too fussy, that's really all you need

Psycho, there is no doubt that you can use ANY setup for either movies or for music. Just like you, I spend a lot of time in front of a my 2-in-1 listening to FM radio. I also spend a lot of time watching movies on a 32 inch Akai TV using just the TV's speakers for output. I understand the differences and do not expect the Akai to come anywhere near my HT set up.

What I was attempting to do was ti ensure the OP set his requirements and expectations correct.

Cheers

 

[sam9s]

Here is my take .......

To begin with every thing boils down to the investment one is willing to put in an HT. And that inevitably leads to the level of interest and passion one has for say movies/music or gaming. If one is passionate or over passionate for that matter......he/she would take time, effort and money to gradually built the HT of his choise. Others might just just surrender to the little investment they have, sacrificing their interest (what ever they have).

Having said that, people who settle for lesser known HT commodities can sure try, to built an HT per the resources at their disposal and in all standards can rightfully expect to come up with some respectable outcome. There should not be any need to discourage them with statements like "you cannot built a system with xyz spks" or "A bedroom is ment for sleeping and not for any A/V needs" ....crap .......the same thing can be put like this ........."logi spks would not provide you as immersive experience for an HT as say ......(""Fill in your brand here"")" ......and I know a maruti 800 cant not be expected to run like merc, but an 800 can suerly be tweaked/modified to give a better performance. And who says bedroom can not be used as an HT. Any room........ ANY room can be converted to a home entertainment room if you have the resources, investment and ofcourse patience to do it.

I have my current HT in my bedroom, it rocks and I am enjoying every bit of it and would continue to do so, till the time my house is ready and I have my dedicated room for the same.

Lastly "The Microtek UPS is meant for computers, not for audio systems" is the most lame statement .......Microtech has ALL kinds of UPS systems, the one I am using is a 2KVA Online UPS connected to my HTiB, LCD, BR and POHD, basically comeplete setup and it is a rocking product. More details ....
HERE

Coming to @OP ....(papabear ...right .. )

few of my points ..

1. Z5500 is just OK speakers for movies, they give much better performance with games on a PC, but lack the deapth for movies, but since your prime interest is in gaming, you should not go wrong with them.

2. Acoustic treatement is an all together different ball game, either you have it totally correct or you dont have it at all, there is not much in the middle. The best you can do it, fill the room with furniture, add thick curtains and do a floor carpet treatment (any thin carpet would do). This would atleast make sure your room does not resound as I have personally seen, z5500 sub creates lot of resonance in an empty room.

3. For power conditioning, two things important ..... A) Pure Sine Wave and If you have fluctuations .....B) a good input rage (actual range and not just shown) like mine is actual 120-300V, which is pretty decent.

then comes the load.........which is the wattage and in your case 800 should br sufficient. Lastly comes the switchover time. Switchover times is the time that the UPS takes to switch from mains to battery and vice versa, though its in ms and enough for most electrical equipments, heavy and sensitive AV gear might reboot even in this switch over time ....( like mine use to do .. ) In that scenario we need an Online UPS, which has practically 0 switchover time. Wont go in to technical details now (the thread I suggested above has all technical details), but it practically zeros the risk of a reboot or any electrical harm ......

That concludes my two cents ( 4 to be more precise ). Any other help/suggestions you might need I am all ears

Hope I was of some help. Go set up your HT and enjoy.

Regards
Sammy

 

[papabear01]

I think APC is the best. But, they are not cheap.

Cheers

APC has high repair charges once the warranty period passes by , so have to take the maintenance costs under check as well . thanks for the suggestion though

You can also look @ pure sinewave inverter.

parents just bought a not so favourite Sukam inverter , it says home UPS but still the tube light flickers when it's on so i'm not sure we can afford another inverter atm.

Here is my take .......
1. Z5500 is just OK speakers for movies, they give much better performance with games on a PC, but lack the deapth for movies, but since your prime interest is in gaming, you should not go wrong with them.

2. Acoustic treatement is an all together different ball game, either you have it totally correct or you dont have it at all, there is not much in the middle. The best you can do it, fill the room with furniture, add thick curtains and do a floor carpet treatment (any thin carpet would do). This would atleast make sure your room does not resound as I have personally seen, z5500 sub creates lot of resonance in an empty room.

3. For power conditioning, two things important ..... A) Pure Sine Wave and If you have fluctuations .....B) a good input rage (actual range and not just shown) like mine is actual 120-300V, which is pretty decent.

then comes the load.........which is the wattage and in your case 800 should br sufficient. Lastly comes the switchover time. Switchover times is the time that the UPS takes to switch from mains to battery and vice versa, though its in ms and enough for most electrical equipments, heavy and sensitive AV gear might reboot even in this switch over time ....( like mine use to do .. ) In that scenario we need an Online UPS, which has practically 0 switchover time. Wont go in to technical details now (the thread I suggested above has all technical details), but it practically zeros the risk of a reboot or any electrical harm ......

That concludes my two cents ( 4 to be more precise ). Any other help/suggestions you might need I am all ears

Hope I was of some help. Go set up your HT and enjoy.

Regards
Sammy

too bad we can hit the Thanks button just once , that sums up everything that i wanted to know . but any corrections to sam's post if any are welcome , so far i'm planning to go with his recommendations and as put by venkat and others thick curtains and plenty of carpet

 

[Kittu]

You shld get the inverter checked if its still under warranty.

 

[papabear01]

You shld get the inverter checked if its still under warranty.

done that , inverter guy comes and says it's the battery , battery guy puts the blame on the inverter . any way to get out of this loop ?