The 'Dark' Art Of Room Acoustics!

[avidyarthy]

Or .... kind of, do with availability of multiple systems like mine. In my case, none too unaffordable ..

ST1 - mellow, sweet, laid back
ST2 - bright, crystal clean midrange, low bass
ST3 - warm, good midrange, superb bass

Keep hopping @ ones mood aka boredom .........

 

[prem]

Hi Bluu

Potted plants act more like diffusors, not absorbers. Ideally i would look at bookshelves at first reflection points and on the back wall. Potted plants, behind the speakers, a large rug between speakers and listening position and possibly a wall hanging/painting in the centre of the wall between the speakers. Also small triangular cushions at the 4 top corners of the ceiling would also work very well in a large room.

 

[jenson]

great thread...stumbled on this article from decware - DECWARE - Article about Setting up a Listening Room without Treatments

pretty good insight..simple language

 

[anm]

lyrita is one of those systems if you are into 2 channel music. It was my first choice for a music only system, but I needed something that worked very well for movies. One day when I will be able to keep 2 sets of speakers/ systems I will have lyritas for sure.

 

[ajay124]

Hello Ajay,

Pardon the interjection, but I always find these discussions a bit too equipment centered. It's so difficult to isolate the sound of one component. Don't all the components interact in a system - that's the sound you hear.

The options you should consider are music systems that bring your music alive, and enhance your enjoyment of it.

Perhaps, you tired of the sound coming from your present system, on extended listening, because it didn't draw you in to the music enough. Perhaps, it wasn't real enough. I find that happens with western classical music very easily, because it is all acoustic music from real instruments and voices; sounds that have a ready reference. A sharp tonality, and enhanced detail, start sounding artificial because they are not there in live performances. A sound that is tonally rich, and relaxed, is that of live music, and a sound you can sink into.

Try and audition systems that give you that feeling. Once you find it, that system can serve you for life.

Regards,
Viren

Viren

Most discussions on hifi forums become equipment centered because most members primarily log in to discuss hifi and not music. Music discussions on hifi forums seldom progress beyond the 'right now I am listening to' stage. A monologue which reveals nothing instead of a dialogue which reveals the posters knowledge and understanding

Members discuss individual components instead of entire system, because it is difficult to convey the sound and spirit of a complete system to others who have not actually heard the system. Your advise that one should focus on auditioning and putting together a system which draws you into the music is sane and sensible. But audiophiles who can afford it often enter into a never ending climb up the hifi ladder. And audiophiles who can't afford it yearn to do the same and gradually become unhappy with their present systems. In both cases music may takes a back seat to the pursuit of hifi.

I was aware that western classical music demands more from hifi than any other genre. In fact I got into hifi because I wanted to listen to Schubert's Unfinished symphony no. 8 reproduced with a reasonable measure of authenticity in my room. I believe I now have a system which can do it. Unfortunately I am still deprived of a heady listening experience of this phenomenal symphony, because now the system reveals the mediocre sound quality of my Karl Bohm/Berliner Philharmoniker CD recording(DG 1963).

The most revelatory point in your post is that sharp detail and enhanced tonality may start sounding sounding artificial while playing western classical music. The 'tonally rich and relaxed sound' was lacking. This was partly the reason for my dissatisfaction with my system. But the repositioning of speakers by Shanti has revealed that my problems were not caused by the equipment. They were the result of my inadequate knowledge of how to make it sound good in my room.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Ajay
Very articulate. 1) In Indian classical music, the best music is not necessarily the best recorded music 2) hence for someone who likes Indian classical, like I do, music and audio are different 3) But in Western Classical, the two can come together. Fortunately I also love Western Classical, so I can feed my obsession with audio.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Ajay, Viren,
System approach is un-debatable. It is the best way to setup a good hifi. But in the absence of exposure to lots of good hifi components and availability of good hifi within a reachable vicinity it becomes impractical to an extent. I guess Pass Labs and Magneplanar would be a great match, is there anyway to hear them, if not together even separately ? That is the limitation I can realize more now, since I see what a typical Singaporean enjoys in terms of "exposure". One can still think of a system approach, if the requirements are clear, preferences are even clearer and not the least one is ready to make the effort to audition and short list. It is complex and tedious. And still after all this you may not make the best decisions, but you cannot go too wrong either. So, any subsequent redressing will be called "fine tuning". Isnt it great if you have reached a stage where only fine tuning is in order ? Believe me, in every category of price point there exists systems which can achieve this. But yes, if you have been riding a Ninja, a Pulsar will not work for you however fine tuned it is, so there is a basic level of quality that we are accustomed to based on our existing/past systems and that defines which price point we should be looking at (in general).

 

[prem]

Hi Ajay
Room contributes IMO half the sound. What one hears is a combination of direct and reflected sound. The reflected sound is controlled by the room. What Shanti achieved in your room was a better control of reflected sound. So while we endlessly spend on equipment and accessories, paying attention to the room can pay rich dividends. Most studios will have speakers costing much less than what many audiophiles have but those speakers at the studio sound very good because their rooms are completely treated.

 

[sidvee]

One can still think of a system approach, if the requirements are clear, preferences are even clearer and not the least one is ready to make the effort to audition and short list. It is complex and tedious.

Not to mention expensive and time consuming. My recent upgrade (or fine tuning) of my pre. from my Audio Research Ls26 to the Lamm ll2.1 took 6 months and required me to buy both the units to audition in my system the result of which is I have two preamps worth a large sum of money not to mention the cost of trips to US. Being an Audio enthusiast/audiophile in India is quite tough on the wallet:sad:.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[prem]

Hi Ajay


At this point of time instead of putting money on a cable upgrade or a preamp upgrade, put that on room treatments. Chances are you will get much more value for your money

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Hi Prem, totally and completely agree with what you say. As a suggestion, people who have serious room problems can look at DSPre1. For a pure digital system (since it employs a high-grade digital pre-amp), it could be a very good, though expensive solution. For people like Bhagwan, who have already progressed hugely in taming the room, it may not add value.

HOLM Acoustics

 

[ajay124]

Hi Ajay


At this point of time instead of putting money on a cable upgrade or a preamp upgrade, put that on room treatments. Chances are you will get much more value for your money

prem

The room is the major variable in my music system at the moment. If our Goa plans work out then I may be needing "bhagwan's" help all over again. And this time I'll remember to stock up on Japanese single malts and German beer

 

[prem]

Hi Gerry_the_Merry

I am not a fan of digital room correction. I believe more in traditional absorbers and diffusers from Real Trap or GIK Acoustics and the not so traditional room treatments from Acoustic System Resonators and Shakti Hallographs

 

[Dr.Bass]

I too believe in room treatment, in fact there is nothing in it not to believe. It is a science, it is also an art at this level. I have heard some great treated/tuned rooms and have spoken to people who have achieved it. What I learnt is, it huge effort to get things right...because it is just too easy to get things wrong. I will take it up only when I have a dedicated room and I know I will stay in that house for 5+ years at least.

That doesnt mean I listen in a bare bones room. I have also heard some very good untreated rooms. Untreated rooms meaning no explicit audiophile treatments. My takeaway is, the first of level of treatment should be adequate floor carpeting (in front of the speaker till the listener), no bare walls but neither heavy curtaining, thin curtains made of cotton or cotton mix or something similar on all walls (as much as possible). You could choose a colour that goes with the decor. This should take you a huge leap forward in terms of negating the most obvious room issues (echo, hardness, ringing, HF exaggeration), except bass.

From here on choosing dedicate acoustic treatment or tuning devices should only be done on case to case basis. But at a macro level you should have a very nice room to begin with, with just adequate carpets and curtains. Please be sure not to use heavy decorative curtains or you kill energy exponentially. There are some great acoustic tuning brands that can help you go to the next level:
Harmonix RFA-7800 Room Tuning Device
Room Tuning related products | ACOUSTIC REVIVE
FranckTchang.com, home of the original acoustic resonators, LiveLine cables, Tango loudspeakers and HeartSong hifi racks

 

[prem]

Hi Dr Bass

The Franck Tchang products really work. I use them.
The Acoustic Revive small silk absorbers are also nice. Have used them in the past at first reflection points.
Have not tried Harmonix but have used Marigo Dots. Was not too impressed. Tends to suck a little life out.

 

[prem]

Hi Dr Bass


Was very keen to use the RR 77 but read it could have a few medical side effects.So stayed away.

 

[bhagwan]

Hi Ajay


At this point of time instead of putting money on a cable upgrade or a preamp upgrade, put that on room treatments. Chances are you will get much more value for your money

I could not agree more;

However, after the room is done up - also change your Cables.
Get 2 more Power Cords & upgrade the RCA & Speaker Cables. Just my humble suggestion...
:clapping:

 

[ajay124]

I could not agree more;

However, after the room is done up - also change your Cables.
Get 2 more Power Cords & upgrade the RCA & Speaker Cables. Just my humble suggestion...
:clapping:

The XLO you heard with the Esoteric is gone. It was on an extended loan from Sid Trehan, but he needed it for his system and today I shipped it back to him. Thank you Sid. I really appreciate your generosity!

After removing the XLO I first tried the generic cable which had come with the Esoteric. The change was very small and subtle but both my wife and I felt it was there. There was a small element of hollowness and harshness which had not been there earlier. Less detail too! I next switched to a Volex power cord gifted to me by Prem. Again the change was small and subtle but it was there. The hollowness disappeared completely. The harshness was greatly diminished. There seemed to be more detail than the XLO but with less sweetness. Overall the Volex is doing 70% of what the XLO was doing. I don't want to go back to generics anymore. Finally I have become a believer in power cords

I will be upgrading the speaker cables when I get the opportunity. If I switch to a pre amp/integrated amp which provides the option of balanced IC's then I would prefer to go balanced. In which case I plan to sell the Link 200 but I will retain the Musiklink Super IC.

 

[Dr.Bass]

1. Room Acoustics
2. Power conditioning
3. Cables
4. Equipment Isolation
.
.
.
5. Tuning

I am in total agreement that the first four items in the list are very essential to really experience and enjoy hifi in its real glory. All of them are essential because all of them do different things to enhance the experience. One cannot be replaced by the other. No amount of room treatment can nullify/replace the requirement of power conditioning..for example. What needs to be taken up first and why, can actually be a great topic to start a new discussion thread. But my point is they are after all "tweaks", nothing more. Tweaks can definitely make a system more listenable, more enjoyble but they cannot change the fundamental characteristics of a system. The fundamental characteristics remains the same, unless one tries to add too many artificial colours to it. So, there could be two ways of thinking in this case:

1. I know my system is "okay" sounding, let me tweak other things around, it will improve the sound and also be useful when I go to my next system.

2. I know my system is "okay" sounding but I need to first get a system which really matches my taste and preferences. I can then tweak "around" it to give me that ultimate experience of music.

I prefer the second route because the fundamental "musical" elements (Tone, Timbre, Timing and Dynamics) come from the components IMO. If they are there, there is a natural communication with music that happens without any tweaks. Then it is mostly about refinement and presentation which can be "tweaked" around and then every level change in performance feels like WOW!! In this process you never have to wait for the end result to enjoy music. It is enjoyble even when tweaks are still happening in their course. Secondly whatever tweaks are applied typically makes more sense because most probably it will be long term setup and will live through small component upgrades if at all. And finally, when things start to settle down one can obviously look at the 5th item in the above list, which is to further tune the system using "magic" products like:
Franck Tchang.com: SugarCubes
Electromagnetic wave and Earth treatments | ACOUSTIC REVIVE
Ultra Low-frequency Pulse Generator [RR-77]?ACOUSTIC REVIVE
Pure smoky Quartz Insulator RIQ-5010/Pure Quartz Insulator RIQ-5010W
Shakti Innovations

These are all products that do some really nice things to the final experience. What needs to be established though is, when to start with these.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hi Dr Bass


Was very keen to use the RR 77 but read it could have a few medical side effects.So stayed away.

I didnt know about it Prem. I have heard the RR77 in action and what it does to the sound is really interesting. Switching it off takes away the "live" feeling from music in a very very noticeable way.