The 'Dark' Art Of Room Acoustics!

[bhagwan]

I am of the humble opinion that if sound is 100 - then the parts that go into getting that result is as under :-
Room - 50
Hardware [equipment] - 30
Placement - Setup - Positioning - 10
Power Supply - 05
Accessories - Isolation etc - 05

I have experienced this 'first hand' several times where same equipment is different rooms - sounds so different. Same person does the set up - so the skill set is common - however, the 'room' plays the biggest role.

I always believe, any person that wants to play the audio game - should first get his room in place. That is most important. Once that is 'settled' the hardware & the positioning / placement etc. can all be worked with.

 

[square_wave]

Respected Sir,
Why not in your set up ?
Play all the music you want / like in your house on your set up - I am sure you will like it...
Heaven is where the Heart is !!
Listen to music & you will be in Heaven - I know I was - last evening - sublime experience it was @ home - will do so again @ 0800 [Drupad - Gundecha Bandu - Darshan / Sense Records.
Darshan - Gundecha Brothers

VOCAL -RAMAKANT GUNDECHA
VOCAL - UMAKANT GUNDECHA
PAKHAWAJ -AKHILESH GUNDECHA
TANPURA -KALPESH JANI
TANPURA -PRAVIN JANI

Raga Komal Rishabh Asavari

1. Alap - 18.13
2. Alap -Jor 8.11
3. Alap - Jhalla 17.00
4. Aai Khelan Ko Ho Faag Lalaso -Dhrupad- Chautaal (12 beats) 11.59
5. Aan Sunai Bansuri Kana Kana - Dhrupad - Sooltaal (10 beats) 7.13

This is Indian Classical - Reference Level Recording for me;

Ah....the Gundecha brothers ! They are pure ecstacy They are one of the most talented artists in India today. I have heard them live.

 

[ajay124]

Dr. Bass

1. Room Acoustics
2. Power conditioning
3. Cables
4. Equipment Isolation

I think everybody who follows this thread would be interested in reading detailed, individual posts on points 1-4. So please oblige

 

[bhagwan]

Ah....the Gundecha brothers ! They are pure ecstacy They are one of the most talented artists in India today. I have heard them live.

ditto;
I have had the pleasure too.
Truly sublime they are;;:clapping:

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Bhagwan, could not agree more. Besides, since set-up, positioning, placement are also related to room so quite an extent.

 

[jls001]

I didnt know about it Prem. I have heard the RR77 in action and what it does to the sound is really interesting. Switching it off takes away the "live" feeling from music in a very very noticeable way.

This review seems to suggest that it is induces good sleep. Also, do look at his methodology of using recordings with and without the RR 77 to compare its effect on compnents and not just the human brain. I think this will pass even Thad's muster although no eye closing is mentioned anywhere.

 

[captrajesh]

I am of the humble opinion that if sound is 100 - then the parts that go into getting that result is as under :-
Room - 50
Hardware [equipment] - 30
Placement - Setup - Positioning - 10
Power Supply - 05
Accessories - Isolation etc - 05

I have experienced this 'first hand' several times where same equipment is different rooms - sounds so different.

Coming from a person as experienced and passionate as you, this comes across to me as revelation. Could you please explain what needs to be done with the room and also the placement/setup/positioning for the benefit of novices like me.

 

[bhagwan]

Coming from a person as experienced and passionate as you, this comes across to me as revelation. Could you please explain what needs to be done with the room and also the placement/setup/positioning for the benefit of novices like me.

Sir,

You have asked me put my life in audio down in words - boy is that difficult;
However, I shall post a few pictures & then write about them, hope it helps :-

Pic [A]



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Pic



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Pic [C]



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:indifferent14:

 

[ajay124]

I am of the humble opinion that if sound is 100 - then the parts that go into getting that result is as under :-
Room - 50
Hardware [equipment] - 30
Placement - Setup - Positioning - 10
Power Supply - 05
Accessories - Isolation etc - 05

I have experienced this 'first hand' several times where same equipment is different rooms - sounds so different. Same person does the set up - so the skill set is common - however, the 'room' plays the biggest role.

I always believe, any person that wants to play the audio game - should first get his room in place. That is most important. Once that is 'settled' the hardware & the positioning / placement etc. can all be worked with.

bhagwan

Which means if we spend more time worrying about the room than about hardware, we may be able to get better results with a smaller outlay of funds

I used to feel guilty about hogging the sweet spot while my wife sat off axis when listening to music. Therefore I have added another listening chair in front of the earlier one. Speaker separation as fixed by you is 108"(9 feet). Diagonal distance from the tweeters to the sweet spot as fixed by you is 144"(12 feet). The second listening chair has been placed at 114", 30" in front of the earlier one. Both my wife and I found the sound equally pleasing from 114" and 144". From 114" my small, inadequate carpet stretches almost till the speakers. Listening at a little lower volume is also possible. Sound is nicely damped, tightly knit, extremely detailed and refined. I am loving it!

 

[bhagwan]

Could you please explain what needs to be done with the room and also the placement/setup/positioning for the benefit of novices like me.

Sir,
There are 2 parts to your question;

a]
Room - What needs to be done ?

b]
Placement / Setup / Positioning.

Now, the room is the 'final frontier'
If you get it right - most of the work is done.
However, it is not easy to get right.
It needs to be 'quiet'
Reasonably 'dead' & at the same time needs to have some 'life' in it !
There is a 'balance' that needs to be achieved.

More later;;;

 

[jls001]

Could you please explain what needs to be done with the room and also the placement/setup/positioning for the benefit of novices like me.

More importantly, how to break those rules and get away with it in flying colours

 

[bhagwan]

bhagwan
Which means if we spend more time worrying about the room than about hardware, we may be able to get better results with a smaller outlay of funds

100 % CORRECT !!
These are 'golden words;
If you get the room right - the speakers & all the hardware has to work that much less.

It is like a road & a car.
If the Road is 'better' the Car will drive 'well' - I assume. May not be a good example - but I have always said - spend on the room & the sound will improve a lot ! :yahoo:

 

[bhagwan]

small correction;
No Smaller Outlay of Funds.
Doing a room - that too well, is a very very expensive proposition....
See some of the pictures I have posted, Work of that kind - does set you back a lot of money - it is not cheap !!
Power Supply - Air Conditioning etc. too needs to be up to spec...

 

[Dr.Bass]

I agree that room can make the sound go from good to wonderful, but it depends what is considered "good" (enough to own) in the first place. I have never liked an equipment in one room totally disliked it in another room. But it has also never happened that I disliked an equipment in one room and liked it in a different room. Fundamentals of music remains the same...okay, an overwhelming bass or ringing treble, some background hash, imperfect soundstage, I will easily forgive, I will in fact be ready to play music play-down the negatives and highlights the positives of a system if...and only if I see the system doing well on the basics (tone, timbre and timing). It doesnt require a great room to achieve this. It requires a design which focusses on these aspects as primary.

I am not saying I dont like a 3 dimensional, precise soundstage where music erupts from utter blackness with clean articulate leading edges and nice long decays. I love all of these and I know that a good room with good setup skills and clean power can achieve this many systems regardless of price, but to me these are enhancements

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

This review [RR77] seems to suggest that it is induces good sleep. Also, do look at his methodology of using recordings with and without the RR 77 to compare its effect on compnents and not just the human brain. I think this will pass even Thad's muster although no eye closing is mentioned anywhere.

Brain just not up to it today!

Many musicians and concert goers complain about the acoustics of auditoriums, ,including some of the world's premier venues. It is not just a case of them being to old to benefit from modern knowledge. London's Royal Festival Hall is not that old, yet I am told that it has been subject to criticism and tweaking since it was built.

The amazing photos posted by Bhagwan remind us that it is perfectly possible to put better engineering and acoustic design into a listening room than many architects have done with world-famous concert halls. What a wonderful thing to do! I suggest that a cheap portable radio with a one-inch speaker would sound better in one of those rooms.

One of the best sounds I ever heard was the single-speaker background music being listened to by some technicians setting up furniture in a TV studio. OK, probably it was some expensive studio monitor --- but I suspect that the acoustics of the room had more to do with my experience. Heck, it was just a five-minute walk through while being given a tour, and yet the aural experience impressed me enough to recall it ten years later!

I couldn't live in one of Bhagwan's wonderful rooms. I have a psychological need for clutter . I'd have to cost in the psychoanalysis! :lol:

 

[Dr.Bass]

Sir,

You have asked me put my life in audio down in words - boy is that difficult;
However, I shall post a few pictures & then write about them, hope it helps :-

Pic [A]



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Pic



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Pic [C]



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

:indifferent14:

I understand your point but I think we should speak in a context that is relevant to the situation at hand.

If I have INR 20 Lakhs to spend, I will love to spend 40-50% on room and use the rest to buy a fitting system. But if I have 5 Lakhs I cannot think on the same lines. Again if I have 50 Lakhs to spend, then the equation changes further. The context matters if the suggestion needs to be practically implemented.

 

[square_wave]

@DR Bass,

Timing : Perception of good timing in music is greatly enhanced in well done room. The reflections in a bad room can negate the ownership of good equipment which has an inherent capability for good timing.

 

[bhagwan]

bhagwan

Which means if we spend more time worrying about the room than about hardware, we may be able to get better results with a smaller outlay of funds

I am loving it!

Rooms like this :-



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Or Like this :-



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Not sure if they are 'cheap' to make !

hyeah:

 

[prem]

Dr Bass, the Acoustic Revive 77 kills airborne RF/EMI. Nothing else in the audio chain does that. Hence its a great tweak. But the Schumann resonance generated can affect your nervous system and induce drowsiness and sleep. One does not need to spend $500 on the Acoustic Revive 77. Their are similar machines available for much less. They do the same thing.

Alternatively you can reduce the airbone RF/EMI generated by having Shakti Stones or similar such stuff placed on top or near transformers, cd player and the like. This approach will also bring about a reasonable improvement.

 

[bhagwan]

@DR Bass,

Timing : Perception of good timing in music is greatly enhanced in well done room. The reflections in a bad room can negate the ownership of good equipment which has an inherent capability for good timing.

Very well stated - thank you.
:clapping: