The effect of cables - A sane debate
- Thread starter Hari Iyer
- Start date
And should I feel good I am using BeldenAfter reading these articles, I find that my approach with telephone cables is close to the one discussed in the article
Hari, how’s what is being discussed in the articles close to telephone wire design? To begin with he recommends Teflon as dielectric. Also the geometry of the iconoclast cable design is so different. Velocity of propagation is discussed. Cables that we use do not have vp of 87. Nordost is the other cable that attaches a lot of importance to velocity of propagation. Microwave cables like Gore have high vp. Or am I missing something?
Each wire is 0.020" solid core, insulated in FEP of low wall thickness, two such wires are bonded together and carry same polarity signal. 0.020" is selected for the best skin effect performance. The inductance and capacitance are controlled within very strict tolerance. Braiding overlap/crossover in specific pattern, specific number of leads for speaker cable (24+24 wires for ~10AWG).
So he uses 25 awg wire it looks like. He creates a bonded pair of effective 22 awg. The magic is in the way he creates the bonded pair. In his XLR design he mentions velocity of propagation is 87 which is like the equivalent of Nordost Odin. Also he has created an air gap between teflon and the wire I think.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
No, you didn't miss anything. It's the sum of all the parts that makes the cable perform the way it does. I wonder which parts Hari used.
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keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Now you will begin hearing nuances you hadn't heard before.And should I feel good I am using Belden
M
mpw
Guest
That's true for anything Keith.
So what's on this thread ultimately ??
So what's on this thread ultimately ??
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Lol. . I am thinking of purchasing a microscope to study all the characteristics of my BeldenNow you will begin hearing nuances you hadn't heard before.
blackscorpio
Active Member
Correct me if I am wrong, each wire in the pair is supposed to carry opposite polarity, not same polarity.
blackscorpio
Active Member
I had a similar experience a while ago after I upgraded my interconnects. That is such a fragile part of the whole chain, as the signal strength is the weakest (excluding phono output, i guess). I feel that speaker wire and power cable is where we start hitting the laws of diminishing returns especially if we are using sensible gauges and reasonable build quality. But ICs have much higher ROI with upgrades.
blackscorpio
Active Member
Thinking on the same lines, material consistency across interconnects & speaker cables, through DIY route.
I am already reaping the benefits of DIY with Cables , I have checked nearly 30k worth pairs for my speakers, and found them to be lacking something always.
I found that, The combination of 2 type of Cables; one Thick (DAC XTreme) and Thinner Cable (Kimber 4Pr) Works the best in any scenario (in my case). So two cables from Amp(Vidar) to MA Silver RX6 is working best for my room. I'd suggest everyone to try this combo of thick and thin Cables for speakers! This experiment is worth trying.
Will be checking Kimber 12TC and Nordost basic speaker cable, in some time ; of course if single Cable doesn't work I'll go for a Combination and I'll update you. Power Cable with 6sqmm Cables will be next in the list of DIY.
See these 4 pages:
(from Belden's Iconoclast Speaker Cable presentation PDF, pages 13, 14, 15, 16)
I read the PSAudio listed articles today about the science and engineering concepts of the Iconoclast audio grade cables.
Quite interesting read from a layman's point.ov view.
Some of the comments were also interesting.
However here we are only discussing about delivery, what about production, as only what is produced can be delivered.
Since the very concept is based on time and amplitude difference, caused by behaviour of sound at different frequencies, and assuming all this degrade the 20hz to 20khz critical octave, isn't the usage of the best engineered cable more important at the music production stage.
Most studios run very long length of cables, and if the above concepts are very much audible, does that mean we are listening to time misaligned music.
What is the point in buying expensive cables or even experimenting on the DIY route if the source is itself corrupted.
Quite interesting read from a layman's point.ov view.
Some of the comments were also interesting.
However here we are only discussing about delivery, what about production, as only what is produced can be delivered.
Since the very concept is based on time and amplitude difference, caused by behaviour of sound at different frequencies, and assuming all this degrade the 20hz to 20khz critical octave, isn't the usage of the best engineered cable more important at the music production stage.
Most studios run very long length of cables, and if the above concepts are very much audible, does that mean we are listening to time misaligned music.
What is the point in buying expensive cables or even experimenting on the DIY route if the source is itself corrupted.
spirovious
Well-Known Member
Combination in parallel? Or Biwire?
DAC xtreme is thick wire 11awg around and has better mids.Also instruments sounds thicker.Some how it cant carry deep bass in certain speakers/towers.Tried a different way.Used DAC to connect +ve of amp and speaker and stackfine to connect -ve of speaker to that of amp.Doing this, bass and sound improved.Not claiming that sound was perfect though.But was experiement.Also used falcon cable in series with Dac cabke and result was improved treble.Not edgy,but soundstage reduced.
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