The (really) Long term dedicated HT project!

[superczar]

All

If you have a dedicated room, you must completely black out the room if you care about your video.
Consider your Projector as a Flashlight and the screen as a Giant reflector. Any light thrown at the screen will bounce back to the walls and in turn, get reflected back on the screen turning the contrast down and the result is a not so desirable image. You may like the image that way, but it can be done better.
There are several other reasons to black out the room, so if you have a dedicated space, that should be done. Top Priority.
Offcourse, WAF should be considered.
I have a dedicated room and i have full liberty on whatever im doing there.
I have seen several HT where people have gone to great lengths in blacking out the room and then put white or light colored recliners and carpet in there, defeating the purpose of a dark room.

The walls are light colored so I guess completely darkening it is not possible for now.
75% of the family viewing will continue to happen in the living room and bedrooms and this room is meant primarily for late evening usage after the kid sleeps
Blackout curtains are to be sourced nonetheless.

As for the furniture/ upholstery - I was keen on 3 recliners (single row) but wife wants to put a traditional wooden diwan instead as it matches the decor elsewhere

All said and done, this turned out to be a much smaller project that what it was meant to be - this was meant to be a bigger 100% dedicated room
Now it’s a smaller room which is also my study/ home office

Nonetheless, happy to report that the project (the AV part) is 90% done (for now) - the sub upgrade and replacement surrounds are still to be sourced but the room is usable already
The 15 year old HK is actually doing a fab job - the audio somehow seems fuller/ richer than my much newer marantz (for movies)
That poor old Elac sub seems to be a bit of a weak link but it’s not an urgent upgrade

I do need yet another harmony hub but looks like that will have to wait till overseas travel resumes.. Currently configuerd an old traditional harmony 650 remote but it’s hard to go back once used to the hub model

All in all, I think I am happy with the AV aspect but the experiential aspect is a bit underwhelming given the room size and furniture constraints ..

On a nicer note There’s a dedicated fridge , mini bar and mini kitchen on the adjacent terrace so that covers the munchies / interval breaks at least
As for the budget, all in, this cost me a fraction of what I had thought - so I’ll take that as a win!

here’s a pic of the screen 2 hour after the final coat- paint is still drying

 

[Srinivasa Rao]

here’s a pic of the screen 2 hour after the final coat- paint is still drying

Hi, congrats on your new setup. Can you please tell me which paint have you used finally. Royale Atmos or something else. Can you please share the color code. Thanks in advance.

 

[Tuhin Lavania]

Hi, congrats on your new setup. Can you please tell me which paint have you used finally. Royale Atmos or something else. Can you please share the color code. Thanks in advance.

Any paint with a Matte finish.

 

[superczar]

Hi, congrats on your new setup. Can you please tell me which paint have you used finally. Royale Atmos or something else. Can you please share the color code. Thanks in advance.

I think the right paint is a function of personal preferences so I used 5 different types side by side for a test run

1) Royale emulsion- Plain white (i.e. base color in which tints are mixed)
2) Royale emulsion - tinted light gray
3) Apcolite enamel - soft sheen base (i.e white)
4) 3 with a light gray tint
5) 3 with a dash of silver metallic accent

I personally found 3 to be the best from a color rendition/ vibrance perspective at the cost of a slight loss of black detail (notice the slight light bleed on the black section in the screenshot above)

2 is what most websites recommend - it does yield slightly better blacks but at the cost of color accuracy/ vibrance

Once I zeroed in on my preference, I lightly sanded the test coats and painted my preferred shade

 

[Srinivasa Rao]

I think the right paint is a function of personal preferences so I used 5 different types side by side for a test run

1) Royale emulsion- Plain white (i.e. base color in which tints are mixed)
2) Royale emulsion - tinted light gray
3) Apcolite enamel - soft sheen base (i.e white)
4) 3 with a light gray tint
5) 3 with a dash of silver metallic accent

I personally found 3 to be the best from a color rendition/ vibrance perspective at the cost of a slight loss of black detail (notice the slight light bleed on the black section in the screenshot above)

2 is what most websites recommend - it does yield slightly better blacks but at the cost of color accuracy/ vibrance

Once I zeroed in on my preference, I lightly sanded the test coats and painted my preferred shade

Thank you for the details. I just today got Royale Atmos steel (code 6142) 1 litre. Right now my projection wall is rose pink. I will be sanding it and remove that color, use putty again and then primer. I am planning to put 3 coates of Royale Atmos, I think 4 coats will be too dark. I got 1lt for 120-Inch screen area. Waiting for my painter to visit.

 

[superczar]

Thank you for the details. I just today got Royale Atmos steel (code 6142) 1 litre. Right now my projection wall is rose pink. I will be sanding it and remove that color, use putty again and then primer. I am planning to put 3 coates of Royale Atmos, I think 4 coats will be too dark. I got 1lt for 120-Inch screen area. Waiting for my painter to visit.

I'd strongly suggest getting a small can of base white and also an enamel..
just do a quick application by yourself - small vertical stripes side by side in the centre of the screen.
Let it dry for a couple of hours
Play a couple of movies , pause a couple of scenes and decide what you prefer before you paint the entire screen

PS: Checked 6142 - it's very similar to (4) I referenced above - I found the colors be a little too dull and lacking vibrancy.
What projector are you using ?

 

[Srinivasa Rao]

I'd strongly suggest getting a small can of base white and also an enamel..
just do a quick application by yourself - small vertical stripes side by side in the centre of the screen.
Let it dry for a couple of hours
Play a couple of movies , pause a couple of scenes and decide what you prefer before you paint the entire screen

PS: Checked 6142 - it's very similar to (4) I referenced above - I found the colors be a little too dull and lacking vibrancy.
What projector are you using ?

Sure, I will try your suggestion of test coat. Mine is a basic Chinese 1080p LED projector AUN AKEY6).

 

[superczar]

Sure, I will try your suggestion of test coat. Mine is a basic Chinese 1080p LED projector AUN AKEY6).

In that case, please do not use gray
You should definitely go semi-gloss white

 

[superczar]

Here are some pics of the current WIP setup.

TBD in order of priority:
1) Surrounds
2) Furniture , Carpets, Blackout curtains
3) Harmony hub or equivalent - Harmony 650 doesn't cut it
3) Subwoofer upgrade

It does seem AVR won't need an upgrade at all so that's some good money saved there!
Here are some pics and comparisons against a 4K (LCD) setup



Sample Images

HT (100")


4K (55")



HT Setup



vs

4K TV Setup

 

[superczar]

Oh well, unfortunately the ancient Harman Kardon is no good.
There is something off with the channel balance - stereo playback has very little imaging, if any
Could have leaky capacitors owing to years of non use

There also seems to be no way to change the Subwoofer cutover + a few other gripes.
Looks like I will have to get a new AVR after all :|

Back to the drawing board on whether I upgrade the SR6010 and move that here or get something like a Denon S950h/ X1600h or a Yamaha VX485 /585 - Non essentials are still off the table in Pune so guess I do have time to research

What would be a recommended AVR - or if there are any good AVR deals on currently?

 

[superczar]

Now really confused about the AVR options...
Bearing in mind I do not need a 7 channel option but do need network connectivity

1) Get something like a Yamaha RX-V485 for <40k and call it a day

2) Get a Denon s950h or X2600h for 60-65k - don’t need the extra channels but preumably the sound will be better than 1

3) Spend more to replace the SR6010 in the living room atmos setup and move the 6010 here- but the question is what would be a good upgrade ? Options from Nad/ Arcam/ Anthem seem to be quite overpriced vs their International pricing.
The usual culprits like Denon X4500/ marantz sr5014/6014 will not really yield an incremental benefit.
While I am ok to spend a bit on the upgrade, I absolutely hate paying a major premium over prevailing global prices

as for the surrounds, it looks like they will be JBL Control One right after the lockdown ends (soon hopefully)

And here are a few customary sample images now that the wall has dried up - Screen border TBD!

 

[elangoas]

The screen looks very good..

While I am ok to spend a bit on the upgrade, I absolutely hate paying a major premium over prevailing global prices

Denon x 3600 should be bit cheaper than Denon x 4500, incase you wish to move 6010 here and upgrade your AVR capability without paying much..

Else a 5.1 AVR with network should do just fine, for much less..

 

[superczar]

The screen looks very good..



Denon x 3600 should be bit cheaper than Denon x 4500, incase you wish to move 6010 here and upgrade your AVR capability without paying much..

Else a 5.1 AVR with network should do just fine, for much less..

Thanks - Considering it cost pretty much nothing other than of course, the time spent into painting (which was actually fun), am really happy with it..

As for the AVR, I called up a few dealers locally but the prices quoted for the upper mid tier AVRs is exorbitant in Pune so I guess will need to wait it out.
I have wired a Paradigm PW 2.1 channel Amp for now considering I don't have surround speakers either !
While the stereo output is fab, sadly the movie/TV audio experience leaves a lot to be desired

 

[superczar]

Got a Denon X3500h and a Paradigm S2000 centre today .
The x3500 has gone to the living room setup while the SR6010 has been moved to the PJ room.

The big revelation to me however was the Paradigm SE2000 - Vocals sound absolutely natural and clear.
For the price paid, it’s an absolute steal!

To Do:
- ATMOS speakers for the living room (the existing speakers were moved to the PJ room as surrounds)- ideally a low profile on-ceiling speaker
- Blackout Curtains and furniture change

 

[Bhoot]

15x12 isn’t a big room to pressurize.you really don’t need very big speakers, especially for HT since you’ll be planting sub in the room. With xo of minimum 80 the FS speakers don’t really do justice. I’d also like to throw the Yamaha AVR in the mix especially the 30x0 series. The 3080 locks down Dolby formats to be up mixed by Dolby only whereas the 3070 allowed for neural x along with Dolby surround to upmix.
I’d suggest a 7.x.4 setup. Don’t discard the atmos. It is quite good especially if you’re into action/horror genre. UHD/Blu-ray’s have amazing sounds coming from the ceiling.
Since you’ve bought the PJ that’s out of discussion now and yes that’s a good (not so bright) PJ. Also if my memory serves me right there is no HDR in the Sony, so that will be a bummer. During the time I was researching the Sony after sales were terrible and I also wanted a scope screen so lens memory was a must have. I’d suggest against a motorized screen without tab tension and having that increased the cost by a lot. Without tab tension the fabric develops crease over time. Mine started showing within 2 weeks. Eventually discarded it.
The kefs T work exceptionally well with the Yamaha and then add 2 pairs of in ceiling (not too fancy speakers) will be a great hit. MV -25db was loud enough.
If I remember the prices correctly
Yamaha A3070 140k
Kef T 205 125k
2x kef T101 20k
Taga in ceilings 12k per pair
That’s a total of ~3.1L
2 channel amp since Yamaha has 11 ch processing and 9 channel amplification.
Wiring etc won’t cost you a lot since you don’t need the 18gbps HDMI cable.
I think you’ll be able to manage this under 4L (3.75L if I eyeball it)

Pull your seats about 3-4 feet from the back wall and you’ll be in heaven. The Kef do need an XO of 120Hz and the tiny sub should be enough to give you the boom for your buck.
alternatively you can go for a A2070/2080 and setup a 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 to save some money
When I was in my previous house the kef T2 (included in the T205) was plenty. My room then was 14x12 and I didn’t want very deep speakers eating into my square feet of the room.

 

[superczar]

15x12 isn’t a big room to pressurize.you really don’t need very big speakers, especially for HT since you’ll be planting sub in the room. With xo of minimum 80 the FS speakers don’t really do justice. I’d also like to throw the Yamaha AVR in the mix especially the 30x0 series. The 3080 locks down Dolby formats to be up mixed by Dolby only whereas the 3070 allowed for neural x along with Dolby surround to upmix.
I’d suggest a 7.x.4 setup. Don’t discard the atmos. It is quite good especially if you’re into action/horror genre. UHD/Blu-ray’s have amazing sounds coming from the ceiling.
Since you’ve bought the PJ that’s out of discussion now and yes that’s a good (not so bright) PJ. Also if my memory serves me right there is no HDR in the Sony, so that will be a bummer. During the time I was researching the Sony after sales were terrible and I also wanted a scope screen so lens memory was a must have. I’d suggest against a motorized screen without tab tension and having that increased the cost by a lot. Without tab tension the fabric develops crease over time. Mine started showing within 2 weeks. Eventually discarded it.
The kefs T work exceptionally well with the Yamaha and then add 2 pairs of in ceiling (not too fancy speakers) will be a great hit.
If I remember the prices correctly
Yamaha A3070 140k
Kef T 205 125k
2x kef T101 20k
Taga in ceilings 12k per pair
That’s a total of ~3.1L
2 channel amp since Yamaha has 11 ch processing and 9 channel amplification.
Wiring etc won’t cost you a lot since you don’t need the 18gbps HDMI cable.
I think you’ll be able to manage this under 4L (3.75L if I eyeball it)

Pull your seats about 3-4 feet from the back wall and you’ll be in heaven. The Kef do need an XO of 120Hz and the tiny sub should be enough to give you the boom for your buck.
alternatively you can go for a A2070/2080 and setup a 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 to save some money
When I was in my previous house the kef T2 (included in the T205) was plenty. My room then was 14x12 and I didn’t want very deep speakers eating into my square feet of the room.

Thanks - that's a really detailed post
I am however done with almost all of the electronics -

• I moved my Living room AVR to this room (Marantz 6010) and The Living Room got a minor upgrade (Denon 3500)
• Similarly, for the fronts I used my older Phase Tech V12 towers which were currently in storage
• For center, I got a Paradigm SE2000 -it was highly recommended by the owner of avstore.in , took his advice even though I was skeptical, and I am glad I did - they are absolutely brilliant
• Pre-existing JBL Control One for surrounds
• Pre-existing Jamo 210 for sub (possible weak link)

Screen was Painted on the wall - check #30 and #31 !

What is still pending:

• Furniture change and upholstery
• Ceiling speakers for ATMOS
• Wire change for the speakers - The AVR is in a closet 40 feet away and the only cable available during the lockdown was cheap and low gauge speaker wires - The measured resistance for each LCR pair is 1.7 ohms :O
• Not urgent - The Jamo sub probably needs an upgrade or probably not - haven't watched enough action flicks on it yet to comment.

 

[Marakk]

Thanks - that's a really detailed post
I am however done with almost all of the electronics -

• I moved my Living room AVR to this room (Marantz 6010) and The Living Room got a minor upgrade (Denon 3500)
• Similarly, for the fronts I used my older Phase Tech V12 towers which were currently in storage
• For center, I got a Paradigm SE2000 -it was highly recommended by the owner of avstore.in , took his advice even though I was skeptical, and I am glad I did - they are absolutely brilliant
• Pre-existing JBL Control One for surrounds
• Pre-existing Jamo 210 for sub (possible weak link)

Screen was Painted on the wall - check #30 and #31 !

What is still pending:

• Furniture change and upholstery
• Ceiling speakers for ATMOS
• Wire change for the speakers - The AVR is in a closet 40 feet away and the only cable available during the lockdown was cheap and low gauge speaker wires - The measured resistance for each LCR pair is 1.7 ohms :O
• Not urgent - The Jamo sub probably needs an upgrade or probably not - haven't watched enough action flicks on it yet to comment.

You can do a lot better than JBL Control One for surrounds. Those are nowhere close to representing sound even fairly well. Just...bad. As object based audio catches on, surround channels will get more use, and sometimes even voices, which can create a big mismatch between front and back.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

As object based audio catches on, surround channels will get more use, and sometimes even voices, which can create a big mismatch between front and back.

I do believe this a distinct possibility. Based on what I'm reading of people with Atmos setups, the vast majority of current Atmos mixes don't really take advantage of the "atmospheric" effect that it was supposed to provide. It's more overhead effects (which is still apparently a lot of fun).

The recommendations made today for Atmos speakers are based on the mixes of today. The future of Atmos mixes is likely to be (significantly) different.

 

[Bhoot]

Thanks - that's a really detailed post
I am however done with almost all of the electronics -

• I moved my Living room AVR to this room (Marantz 6010) and The Living Room got a minor upgrade (Denon 3500)
• Similarly, for the fronts I used my older Phase Tech V12 towers which were currently in storage
• For center, I got a Paradigm SE2000 -it was highly recommended by the owner of avstore.in , took his advice even though I was skeptical, and I am glad I did - they are absolutely brilliant
• Pre-existing JBL Control One for surrounds
• Pre-existing Jamo 210 for sub (possible weak link)

Screen was Painted on the wall - check #30 and #31 !

What is still pending:

• Furniture change and upholstery
• Ceiling speakers for ATMOS
• Wire change for the speakers - The AVR is in a closet 40 feet away and the only cable available during the lockdown was cheap and low gauge speaker wires - The measured resistance for each LCR pair is 1.7 ohms :O
• Not urgent - The Jamo sub probably needs an upgrade or probably not - haven't watched enough action flicks on it yet to comment.

since both of them are 7 channels I’d recommend going for a 5.1.2 setup. Plan on bipole speakers so you get some reflection sound from the back side also. The rear surrounds are the most underrated speaker and sitting right at the back of the room is the next common mistake. The bipoles (probably in the future) will do you good.
as for atmos, most tracks have only about 2% sound going through the height channels and 2 channels just shows presence not movement. 4 channel (minimum) would really allow you to hear object moving from front to back.
wires I say you can look at once the lockdown is over, as far as sub, bass is a personal taste. You might feel you enjoy a lot, but 100db over a period of time fires your brains. If ignored may also cause disorientation, blackouts or permanent ear and brain damage. I generally keep mine at about 85db through the MiniDSP. I’d recommend one FVX12 from Rythmik. They outperform the SVS in lower extension and room modes may help you go lower than the rated frequencies. I have mine maintaining 85db at 10 Hz. Haven’t tested them for lower, since I don’t think I need it. You’ll get the upgrade bug for HDR projector and AVR soon.

I do believe this a distinct possibility. Based on what I'm reading of people with Atmos setups, the vast majority of current Atmos mixes don't really take advantage of the "atmospheric" effect that it was supposed to provide. It's more overhead effects (which is still apparently a lot of fun).

The recommendations made today for Atmos speakers are based on the mixes of today. The future of Atmos mixes is likely to be (significantly) different.

The best processing you can do for the money a richer than average person would spend would get them to a 16ch processing which would give a 9.1.6 setup which I guess is the norm. Maybe they introduce a Middle speaker for every row of atmos or multiple sides Processing.
most people still don’t use Front wides as of today (Theaters and myself included), so I wouldn’t count them changing things very soon.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

The best processing you can do for the money a richer than average person would spend would get them to a 16ch processing [...]

I was talking about the mixing, not the processing.