The (really) Long term dedicated HT project!

[superczar]

From where did you bounce to the ceiling and which speakers?

I'll probably get Polk Atrium 4 within a couple of weeks. Waiting for hardware stores to open as I'll need some tools to install everything and hide wires. Will update later.n

Boston A 26 - placed around 55 degrees towards the ceiling - 3 point audyssey measurement

 

[Marakk]

Boston A 26 - placed around 55 degrees towards the ceiling - 3 point audyssey measurement

How far below the ceiling did you place them?

 

[superczar]

How far below the ceiling did you place them?

The front towers are 45" , the ceiling is 120" - add the height of the angled BA bookshelves and I'd say the speakers were around mid way between floor and ceiling

 

[Marakk]

The front towers are 45" , the ceiling is 120" - add the height of the angled BA bookshelves and I'd say the speakers were around mid way between floor and ceiling

Ah! I'm going to mount them 9 inches below the ceiling and then bounce at 32° to get on axis sound bounce to MLP. So I think that'll work better as the reflection off the ceiling will be stronger, less diffused, and then the angle between me and the speaker, will be more than 90° which is higher than 70° that Dolby has asked Dolby Atmos enabled speakers to have for adequate cut off of high frequencies. Of course, that doesn't cut them all out, which is why they also have asked for in-built head related transfer function to increase psychoacoustic overhead feeling. So that's one reason why simply mounting a bookshelf speaker over tower speakers won't match the performance of Dolby Atmos enabled speakers, the good ones at least.

Since mine will be at 90°+, 94-95° to be more precise, high frequencies should be cut off well and good and bounce will much stronger. I bet it'll work well. Physics checks out. Lol

 

[superczar]

Ah! I'm going to mount them 9 inches below the ceiling and then bounce at 32° to get on axis sound bounce to MLP. So I think that'll work better as the reflection off the ceiling will be stronger, less diffused, and then the angle between me and the speaker, will be more than 90° which is higher than 70° that Dolby has asked Dolby Atmos enabled speakers to have for adequate cut off of high frequencies. Of course, that doesn't cut them all out, which is why they also have asked for in-built head related transfer function to increase psychoacoustic overhead feeling. So that's one reason why simply mounting a bookshelf speaker overhead won't match the performance of Dolby Atmos enabled speakers, the good ones at least.

Since mine will be at 90°+, 94-95° to be more precise, high frequencies should be cut off well and good and bounce will much stronger. I bet it'll work well. Physics checks out. Lol

I am probably going OT here but for your use case, genuine advice - Do not spend too much on your surrounds and Atmos
That money can be utilized much better elsewhere

Don;t compromise on the LCR, Just get any cheap basic directional speakers for these two pairs -
Any possible tonal mismatches (for effects) will be offset by your AVRs frequency response correction
You can always upgrade the latter at any time if you feel something is amiss.

 

[Marakk]

I am probably going OT here but for your use case, genuine advice - Do not spend too much on your surrounds and Atmos
That money can be utilized much better elsewhere

Don;t compromise on the LCR, Just get any cheap basic directional speakers for these two pairs -
Any possible tonal mismatches (for effects) will be offset by your AVRs frequency response correction
You can always upgrade the latter at any time if you feel something is amiss.

I honestly don't think tonal mismatches can be corrected. Even when off-axis, what we hear is not just direct sound, but also reflections. EQ can't match them all. Even the best ones aren't that good for higher frequencies. Maybe it's something that's noticeable only when you experience one and then the other, similar to let's say brightness difference between B and C series OLED. Let's see.

I would like using all the same speakers if I could, even for Atmos. Lol

Infact, Polk Atrium 4 costs more than my front and surround, JBL Stage A120, but I can't figure out how to mount the JBL speakers tilted up at an angle. They'll look bulky and bad too, so Polk Atrium 4 is a compromise.

I'll report in a couple of weeks once my system is up and running.

 

[superczar]

I honestly don't think tonal mismatches can be corrected. Even when off-axis, what we hear is not just direct sound, but also reflections. EQ can't match them all. Even the best ones aren't that good for higher frequencies. Maybe it's something that's noticeable only when you experience one and then the other, similar to let's say brightness difference between B and C series OLED. Let's see.

I would like using all the same speakers if I could, even for Atmos. Lol

Infact, Polk Atrium 4 costs more than my front and surround, JBL Stage A120, but I can't figure out how to mount the JBL speakers tilted up at an angle. They'll look bulky and bad too, so Polk Atrium 4 is a compromise.

I'll report in a couple of weeks once my system is up and running.

It won't do a perfect match - Even the best REQ won't mix a LR mismatch (to use an extreme example)
However, almost all of the content during involving passages in multichannel is delivered through LCR

Perfectly Matched 7 or 9 speakers are great if one has unlimited pockets - For most mortals though, what do you think seems like a more likely comment from anyone wtching a movie on your setup?

A - "The dialogs on your setup are so natural and lifelike"

B - "oh man, that chopper that just flew past the screen sounded too bright when it went behind"

 

[Marakk]

It won't do a perfect match - Even the best REQ won't mix a LR mismatch (to use an extreme example)
However, almost all of the content during involving passages in multichannel is delivered through LCR

Perfectly Matched 7 or 9 speakers are great if one has unlimited pockets - For most mortals though, what do you think seems like a more likely comment from anyone wtching a movie on your setup?

A - "The dialogs on your setup are so natural and lifelike"

B - "oh man, that chopper that just flew past the screen sounded too bright when it went behind"

That's what, I think JBL Stage A120 are going to be perfectly capable speakers with enough bass for my small room, along with being a big step up from the current cheap soundbar I have. Principle of diminishing returns apply. Arena 120's spins are available, Stage A120 is its successor, and the FR of Arena 120 is incredibly well balanced and behaved. Floyd Toole also agrees that Arena 120 with a subwoofer is a fantastically neutral setup delivering great sound as long as it's not overpushed. Will it suffice for a big room? Nah. For a small room? Totally. Stage A120 I'll give me more bass and better quality bass than my soundbar. Any more, and I'll be disturbing neighbors. I don't need anything else. Timber mismatch or not, I'll find out once my setup comes. Better safe than sorry.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Infact, Polk Atrium 4 costs more than my front and surround, JBL Stage A120

Heh, that's a bit extreme. However, I see the price difference may not be too much. Look forward to reading how all of this sounds in your setup.

 

[superczar]

That's what, I think JBL Stage A120 are going to be perfectly capable speakers with enough bass for my small room, along with being a big step up from the current cheap soundbar I have. Principle of diminishing returns apply. Arena 120's spins are available, Stage A120 is its successor, and the FR of Arena 120 is incredibly well balanced and behaved. Floyd Toole also agrees that Arena 120 with a subwoofer is a fantastically neutral setup delivering great sound as long as it's not overpushed. Will it suffice for a big room? Nah. For a small room? Totally. Stage A120 I'll give me more bass and better quality bass than my soundbar. Any more, and I'll be disturbing neighbors. I don't need anything else. Timber mismatch or not, I'll find out once my setup comes. Better safe than sorry.

Do Let us know how it goes

 

[Marakk]

Heh, that's a bit extreme. However, I see the price difference may not be too much. Look forward to reading how all of this sounds in your setup.

Haha! I would love to replace the Atrium 4 with a cheaper alternative, but I can't find any small-ish speaker with decent bass that I can mount freely with different angles and experiment. Gotta pay more for the flexibility and form factor.

 

[Marakk]

Since mine will be at 90°+, 94-95° to be more precise, high frequencies should be cut off well and good and bounce will much stronger. I bet it'll work well. Physics checks out. Lol

I must come clean here. I did maths wrong here in the rush to reply. I used a triangle calculator to calculate angles based on measured distances, but I didn't realise its flipped upside down than what it should be.

So the angle is now 28+32, which is about 60°, which does mean that I'll get some high frequencies, and head related transfer function that receiver will apply if I label it as Dolby Enabled should help. Otherwise, I can increase the tilt angle by 10-20° and instead of direct on-axis sound, get off-axis bounces. Considering that it'll be placed horizontally, 10-20° off-axis sounds shouldn't be that much different than on-axis though.

Let's see when I get them. All of this might be mute too because I do have nankarrow foam bass traps installed, and if they are extending far enough to cover the tweeter from main listening position, I'll get no mid or high frequencies directly from the speaker. Can't be sure about that so let's see.

Two weeks and I'll have it up and running.

 

[buxx]

There are some more small speakers that can be mounted flexibly (to an extent) :
Morel SP-1 or SP-2, Gallo Micro, Mission M-cube, Focal Sib Evo , CA Minx 12 . Sonodyne Sonus 3540

I have heard the Polk Atrium 4 , and a few other outdoor speakers - They are pretty terrible..
But they can be mounted at whatever angle you want, just like the Control 1.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

All of this might be mute [...]

Freudian slip, eh?

 

[Marakk]

There are some more small speakers that can be mounted flexibly (to an extent) :
Morel SP-1 or SP-2, Gallo Micro, Mission M-cube, Focal Sib Evo , CA Minx 12 . Sonodyne Sonus 3540

I have heard the Polk Atrium 4 , and a few other outdoor speakers - They are pretty terrible..
But they can be mounted at whatever angle you want, just like the Control 1.

M-cube, Minx 12 and the Model options are really bass shy. I want it to go down to at least 80-90 Hz.

If only I could have gotten measurements of Polk Atrium 4. Would have known better as to how it performs. Good you commented though. I'll reconsider the Polk Atrium 4 choice then.

I can use Polk S10 maybe. The wall mounts that are currently available on Amazon might pose a problem because of the power port grill that's attached. Maybe I can remove it and then use them. Bass should still be better than other options in play.

I did consider Sonodyne Sonus, but I couldn't find enough info about the mounting bracket. Does it allow tilt and lock at any angle?

Focal Sob Evo seem out of stock everywhere.

 

[buxx]

From what I read , while Dolby specifies the Atmos to be full-range speakers - the Atmos content does not go down below 100-120 Hz.
So one should be okay with small speakers.

You can not go wrong with either the Morel or the CA Minx 12/22, if they fit your budget.
Sib Evo was perfect but has slightly less mounting flexibility and aint cheap .. I was quoted 40K for 2pairs.

if you really want them to go to 80Hz, then be prepared to shell around ~30K/pair - Deftech PM 800, Monitor Audio Mass 10, Kef Egg are options.
Try Boston Acoustic Bravo 20 too.

All of these have tilt-able ceiling mounts .

 

[superczar]

M-cube, Minx 12 and the Model options are really bass shy. I want it to go down to at least 80-90 Hz.

Why does this matter?
Why not Just set the crossover a little high for the surrounds/atmos?

 

[Marakk]

Why does this matter?
Why not Just set the crossover a little high for the surrounds/atmos?

Because I won't be using a subwoofer. Small room in an apartment, no sub for me. So I want acceptable bass from the speakers themselves.

I'm looking at Dolby Atmos specs and it doesn't seem like there's any technical limitation to low frequencies in those channels. They can carry full-range signal so to me it makes sense to get a decent speaker. Polk S10 seem like the better option now if I rule out Atrium. Removing the power port grill will lower their bass a bit, but they are still more economical than other options and the the sound shouldn't be too bad either. No measurements for S10, but S15 has been measured by some in forums and it performed well enough.

 

[Marakk]

Why does this matter?
Why not Just set the crossover a little high for the surrounds/atmos?

And oh, bass is tough to localise below 80 Hz, so it makes sense to me for the overhead channel to go down to 80 Hz at least.

 

[superczar]

The list of woes never ends.
So the Marantz used to do ATMOS on NF and prime without any coaxing in the living room (conected to Apple TV 4k)
Now it won’t do it any more - Plenty of googling later, it turns out that Netflix doesn’t support ATMOS on firestick 4K (the HT room is on a FS 4K)

swapped out an older ATV 4 HD (non 4k) from a stereo only room in the hope that this may do atmos - alas, the older non 4k atv does not support atmos at all.
I guess the only available option is to buy a new ATV4k - although a new model is supposed to come out any time now
any thoughts or suggestions?