The search for a system continues - Wharfedale Linton? Good tube amps?

[vkalia]

I had posted, asking about high end speakers in the 5L range or so.

I auditioned Sonus Faber Nova IIIs (would have blown my budget to hell, but would still have gotten them if the sound quality was worth it) - very uninspiring. Had the typical analytical audiophile sound: clean, detailed, lots of separation, great soundstage... but also lacking in fullness and body. It was like listening to a performance from far away, as opposed to in the same room. Tried the SF Sonetto 3s and actually liked them more - am going back to to audition the Sonetto 8s tomorrow. Let's see how they perform.

The other option is to spend some time trying out different speakers - including auditioning some Audio Note speakers next time i am in Singapore and decide on a purchase based on that. But that might take some time, and i do want to get something soon. So was thinking of getting a smaller system for my home office (a smaller room - sized like a large bedroom).

Anyone have any comments on how the Wharfedale Lintons sound? According to the reviews, they seem to have the sound palette i like - rich bass and midrange, warm/smooth highs. That, paired with a tubey tube amp could actually work quite well in a smaller space.

And what would some good tube amps in the 30-40WPC range be, which still maintain the rich tube sound (not all tube amps do - use of heavy global feedback can make push pull designs sound depressingly similar to solid state)? I have never really looked into push pull amplifiers before, so dont have much of an idea on where to start.

TIA!

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I had posted, asking about high end speakers in the 5L range or so.

I auditioned Sonus Faber Nova IIIs (would have blown my budget to hell, but would still have gotten them if the sound quality was worth it) - very uninspiring. Had the typical analytical audiophile sound: clean, detailed, lots of separation, great soundstage... but also lacking in fullness and body. It was like listening to a performance from far away, as opposed to in the same room. Tried the SF Sonetto 3s and actually liked them more - am going back to to audition the Sonetto 8s tomorrow. Let's see how they perform.

The other option is to spend some time trying out different speakers - including auditioning some Audio Note speakers next time i am in Singapore and decide on a purchase based on that. But that might take some time, and i do want to get something soon. So was thinking of getting a smaller system for my home office (a smaller room - sized like a large bedroom).

Anyone have any comments on how the Wharfedale Lintons sound? According to the reviews, they seem to have the sound palette i like - rich bass and midrange, warm/smooth highs. That, paired with a tubey tube amp could actually work quite well in a smaller space.

And what would some good tube amps in the 30-40WPC range be, which still maintain the rich tube sound (not all tube amps do - use of heavy global feedback can make push pull designs sound depressingly similar to solid state)? I have never really looked into push pull amplifiers before, so dont have much of an idea on where to start.

TIA!

There are more variety of tube implementations than we can shake a stick at

No negative feed back in a push-pull makes the bass wooly. And not exactly the warm and wooly kind. I found it bloaty without grip and definition. Increasing the feed back got the bass grip back, but it sounds more like a class A amp, than a tube amp.

So now for me, a tube amp only has to add the rich tonal colours and a smoothness to the sound that tubes do well. I don't need that thick gravely warmish sound anymore

So my recommendation would be to try 300B sets, though they top out at 8W. If you need more power, then will have to go to 845 tubes. These are anywhere between 18 to 30 watts. And these should work great on the Lintons, and will be future proof for your next pair of speakers too, if the sensitivity of the speak3rs can be kept at 87db and above. All the best

 

[raghupb]

If you are OK importing, do try amps from Aspen. They are all Class A/B SS with a wonderful harmonic profile.
They are an Aussie company and the designer Hugh Dean is very respected in the amp world.
I have an old kit amp AKSA designed by Hugh Dean. Fantastic amp.
They have newer FBUs that you may consider.

Amplifiers

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[ssf]

Any advantages of using a tube pre and a solid state power amp over a tube amp ?

 

[raghupb]

From what I have experienced, it gives you best of both worlds.
SS amps can drive most speakers, tubes bring in their harmonics.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[vkalia]

There are more variety of tube implementations than we can shake a stick at

No negative feed back in a push-pull makes the bass wooly. And not exactly the warm and wooly kind. I found it bloaty without grip and definition. Increasing the feed back got the bass grip back, but it sounds more like a class A amp, than a tube amp.

So now for me, a tube amp only has to add the rich tonal colours and a smoothness to the sound that tubes do well. I don't need that thick gravely warmish sound anymore

So my recommendation would be to try 300B sets, though they top out at 8W. If you need more power, then will have to go to 845 tubes. These are anywhere between 18 to 30 watts. And these should work great on the Lintons, and will be future proof for your next pair of speakers too, if the sensitivity of the speak3rs can be kept at 87db and above. All the best

Sorry, to be clear, I wasnt saying i needed a zero feedback PP design - I was saying that high global feedback can result in a PP implementation that measures and performs very close to that of solid state. There should be other designs that dont rely on heavy doses of global feedback, which may not measure as well but which DO provide that lush tube sound I prefer.

I already have a 2A3 SET which i need to restore at some point - not looking to get another.

Any advantages of using a tube pre and a solid state power amp over a tube amp ?

IME, a tube pre has a much smaller effect on the sound: which makes sense, give that with a typical 2V input and typical amp gains, your preamp typically acts more as an attenuator than an amplifier.

My preference would be a solid state pre - for precise switching, matched attenuators and the convenience of electronics for volume control and source switching - and a tube amp for actual amplification. A properly designed PP design - see above - can provide some of the tube bloom, without the constraints of a SET design.

YMMV, obviously.

 

[vkalia]

If you are OK importing, do try amps from Aspen. They are all Class A/B SS with a wonderful harmonic profile.
They are an Aussie company and the designer Hugh Dean is very respected in the amp world.
I have an old kit amp AKSA designed by Hugh Dean. Fantastic amp.
They have newer FBUs that you may consider.

Amplifiers

Cheers,
Raghu

Thanks for that. Let me look into the cost and logistics of this import.

 

[drlowmu]

My experience, ( after 53 years of buying MANY speakers and amps ), all boils down to this :

START the hi fi system with the right efficiency speaker. You want 100 DB or over sensitivity.

All else follows !

This allows you to use the best sounding tube amps known to exist, amps that are typically low powered.

The higher powered the tube amp is, the " clunkier " and more compromised it sounds !! ( The best 845 sounds worse than the best 300B, and that 300B sounds worse than the best 2A3. ). Especially in SE.

If you have a 101 dB speaker, " the world is your oyster ". You are on the right path., or to put it another way, you are beginning properly - putting your best foot forward.

If you can DIY, even better. I can make specific suggestions, speakers and amps. P..M. me.

Jeff

 

[drlowmu]

Not all PP tubes amps are bad sounding. Some could change your perspective completely. And there are some SE tube amps easily putting out 10 wpc. Further in my little experience so far, even tube amp watts are not equal…. Some 2 watters SE sound way more louder than 5 wpc, on the same exact setup. (The secret lies in their power supplies)

There are some unsung, sleeper tubes which are class apart in some topologies … my own indulgence continues….

Yogibear,

I never said P-P amps were bad sounding.

I would say, the best SE amps I could build, will sound better than the best P-P amps I can build. WHY ?? In P-P, the two halves are never quite exactly the same, whereas with SE, that problem is avoided.

Sleeper tubes you say ?? LOL. ........................That is me.

How about my comments, DIY builds, and my devotion to 6005 tube amps the last several years???

Jeff

 

[drlowmu]

Sorry, to be clear, I wasnt saying i needed a zero feedback PP design - I was saying that high global feedback can result in a PP implementation that measures and performs very close to that of solid state. There should be other designs that dont rely on heavy doses of global feedback, which may not measure as well but which DO provide that lush tube sound I prefer.

I already have a 2A3 SET which i need to restore at some point - not looking to get another.



IME, a tube pre has a much smaller effect on the sound: which makes sense, give that with a typical 2V input and typical amp gains, your preamp typically acts more as an attenuator than an amplifier.

My preference would be a solid state pre - for precise switching, matched attenuators and the convenience of electronics for volume control and source switching - and a tube amp for actual amplification. A properly designed PP design - see above - can provide some of the tube bloom, without the constraints of a SET design.

YMMV, obviously.

Almost !! KISS rules. Forget about using NFB, in any tube amp. It is musically very very wrong !!

Leave out the gain stage in a line stage preamp, be it tube OR solid state.

It is usually not needed.

Suggest a passive attenuator having the highest quality silver wiring, switch contacts, and overall implementation.

Jeff