The Sonos thread

Sawyer

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I moved my home audio partially to a Sonos platform in 2011, and did a full transition this month.
I am very satisfied with the experience, and would be happy to share my experiences - largely excellent, with some hiccups along the way.
I did a search here, and did not come across any thread dedicated to Sonos, but if there is one already, I don't want to start a new one.
Anyone knows of an existing thread, please point me in that direction, I will post there instead.
Sonos isn't easy to "get", and there a lot of misconceptions about it even in its home country, the US. User experiences, such as mine and those of others, ought to be helpful here.
 
I am not even sure if having a thread here is necessary, Sonos supports an excellent user forum:
Sonos Forums
Joining the forum is just as easy as joining this one, and while the forum is a part of the Sonos website, it isn't officially supported or controlled by Sonos. Moderators are all very experienced Sonos users with no commercial affiliation to Sonos, and while things can get out of hand as on all such places, the moderators do an effective job of keeping things civilised, by and large.
I had heard about Sonos for some years before 2011, but had not ever understood it. With the play units launched, it is a lot easier to understand, but misconceptions persist. When I was looking for a multi room solution I registered there, and got all the answers to my questions, many of which were of the basic/dumb kind. So much so that I got the confidence to order units from Amazon US unseen and unheard, shipped to my home, and received safe and sound in about 10 days from order clicks.
In the early days, I also got a lot of patient handholding help and as a pay it forward thing, in time started offering this to others. I am active there, with some 1300 posts at last count.
Instead of reinventing what may well be a much lower quality wheel here, does it make sense to not go further, when there is a wealth of knowledge about Sonos that is just as accessible to people here?
 
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I am not even sure if having a thread here is necessary, Sonos supports an excellent user forum:
Sonos Forums
Joining the forum is just as easy as joining this onedoes it make sense to not go further, when there is a wealth of knowledge about Sonos that is just as accessible to people here?

Will look up there .

But *at least* a couple of paras some more detail, user experience, etyadi on this thread would be great, if you find the time.

thanks

ciao
gr
 
But *at least* a couple of paras some more detail, user experience, etyadi on this thread would be great
Makes sense. I will do enough in this direction, anyone wanting more specific information knows where it is available.
In my quest for system simplification, I had reached a stage where I was getting CD quality sound from my main system from lossless CD rips in an iPod classic, wire connected to the USB socket/DAC of my SACD player. I also had lesser systems in other rooms, used to play CDs carrying them from room to room or leaving them scattered everywhere. Although I had home wifi, internet radio/services was a closed box.
Some years ago, I had read in Stereophile magazine about Apple's airport express being a high quality music streamer, equipped with a optical digital signal capability hidden in its one output socket. I had a couple of units at home used as wifi extenders, so the next step was to give this a spin, using lossless music files sitting in a recently acquired wifi equipped iPod touch.
I was surprised to see how simple it all was. Wire the AEX to the optical digital input on the SACDP, plug the AEX into the mains socket, do some settings on the Touch, and start streaming music from the touch to my main speakers getting CD quality sound right away. Wiring the second AEX to another system was the next obvious step and music was available the same way in that room too, or in both together.
The next step was also obvious - use the touch to access internet radio stations via the Tune in app on it, and stream music to both rooms, wirelessly. Instant and free music heaven! I was so impressed with the sound quality that I did not do any strict comparison test between that and the quality from either CDs or their lossless rips streamed across. I could not hear any differences, and I wasn't interested in setting up a test to prove this to the nth degree, given that there seemed to be thousands of places to hear music from, of all genres, from all over the world, for free! Why look a gift horse in the mouth?!
This was working fine for me for some weeks - this is Apple Airplay at work, by the way. One AEX was sitting idle since not needed for wifi extension, and I had it connected to the DAC of the SACDP, allowing for the Touch to stream music from the library, or from the internet at the touch of a button, with volume controls too.
 
Airplay limitations

I didn't mention that AEX also provides analog audio outputs, converted by its onboard DAC, via the same output socket, that can be used to feed audio input sockets on amps that don't have a DAC via a ordinary 1>2 audio cable. Sound quality by this method sounded close enough to that using an external DAC which I was using because I had one already in the SACDP, and optical wire is cheap.
Before setting out limitations, let me right away say that if these do not apply to you, this is the cheapest way of going multi room wireless on an existing system, with internet radio thrown in. Sonos may be overkill, and unnecessary expense.
The big limitation is that Airplay uses home wifi bandwidth. If this is overloaded by the other routine uses - notable Skype or You tube streaming done by anyone on the network, music play stutters or stops.
Airplay architecture is also an issue, it uses the same hub and spoke model. The touch streams music to the wifi router, which streams it forward to the AEX - even if the touch and the AEX are next to each other in one room, and the router is in the next room. Devices have to go through the hub to talk to each other. This imposes range limitation, signal weakening, and the same consequences on music play.
Airplay allows multi room, but only the same music across all rooms.
Using a Touch to stream eats up battery charge quickly. One can of course use a touch only as a remote, where the actual music streaming is done from music files on a computer in the same or another room. But then the computer has to be on all the time music is to be played. If it is in another room, range limitations can be an issue.
If none of these are limitations in a particular case, it is brilliant. On the audible sound quality front as well. In my case these limitations arose, which is how Sonos came into the picture.
 
What Sonos is - and isn't

Taking the latter first - Sonos isn't a portable solution in that one can't take it out of the house. None of the units are battery powered, for starters, and Sonos can only work on a foundation of a stable home wifi network. For a cheap portable solution, bluetooth speakers are a better way to go. Range and quality limitations, but they do the job.
Using a computer analogy, Sonos also is more like Apple than PC. It isn't a open system, and there isn't much of geek tweaking things about it. And like Apple, this cuts both ways - it works out of the box and one doesn't need a lot of technical savvy to use it.
Although Sonos don't say it as loudly and clearly as they should, at least one Sonos unit needs to be ethernet wire connected to the wifi router.
Sonos is more reliable than any other wireless audio solution I know, but it isn't as reliable as a legacy wired audio system. Uptime for me has been more than 99% in almost three years, but there are times when some troubleshooting can be called for. But the company supported resources to get help to restore the system are also better than that of anyone else in the space, speaking again from personal experience.
What it is: A modular wireless home audio streaming solution with the flexibility to choose units based on specific needs, able to do duty as a CD quality source to a high end audio system, down to small standalone units that don't need anything else to play music. And one can start small and add units over time - in a priorities, budgets and needs based manner. That said, a common saying in the Sonos forum is be careful, the things seem to breed like rabbits, once the first one comes in.
While any one Sonos unit can do this duty if wired to the router, convenience usually dictates that this duty is assigned to the cheapest Sonos unit sold, the Bridge. All this needs is mains power and an ethernet wire running to the LAN port on the router. What this unit then does, apart from pulling music from the router, is to set up Sonosnet - a proprietary dedicated to audio parallel wifi network in the home. This can be affected by the same interferences that affect home wifi operation, but it is immune to what is happening in terms of loading on the home wifi network. Once the Bridge is installed, other Sonos units need only mains power, getting music signals wirelessly from the Bridge, and if necessary, from each other - all work in peer to peer mode when called to do so, and are not architecturally constrained to the hub and spoke model as Airplay.
The usual way to get owned music to play via Sonos is to have it contained on a HDD that is wired to another LAN port of the router, or to the LAN port of the Bridge. Every other Sonos unit can then wirelessly pull the music for replay in the room where that unit is located. It can also pull the music from the net, available to the router from the broadband socket to which the router is connected.
For home audio one can choose between the following units for different rooms, based on what currently exists there, or is planned to be installed there.
1. Connect: wired to the digital or analog inputs of any DAC or stereo amp or active speakers, provides music from the HDD or the net, in the room where the system speakers are installed. If the files are lossless, heard sound quality is as good as CD play.
2. Connect Amp: wired to passive speakers that have no amplification built in, does the same thing as the Connect.
3. Sonos play units - 1, 3 and 5: All in one units that contain amps and speakers, and don't need anything other than mains power to pull and play music as above. And two like models can be set up as a stereo pair, where the left right channels are separately fed to the speakers.
4. Sonos Sub - subwoofer duties
5. Playbar - largely a HT solution
The entire system is controlled from a free Sonos app that can be hosted on PC, Mac, Handheld apple and android devices as well as tablets. Using it, one can choose to play in any room, or some, or all together, in perfect sync. Or, one can choose to play, for example, one album in one room, another in another, internet radio in a third, at the same time. Up to 32 rooms! One can have as many controllers as one has devices, all operate independently, all are in master mode.
Set up is very simple. Takes more time to describe than do. Indeed even unboxing the product takes more time.
As I wrote, uptime isn't 100%, a situation inherent in the state of wireless tech today. It is also digital - if it works it will work to 100% of designed quality. If it doesn't it won't deliver any music, no halfway houses.
But this isn't a worry because the support is world class. Free lifetime support from Sonos who are able to remotely diagnose the system, since it is connected to the net. And it works, all my support has been via efficient email, given the time difference with the US. And more often that not, the Sonos user forum has enough people that are knowledgeable and helpful at such times. I am a Sonos fan because of this support more than anything else.
Sourcing: I bought my first set of units from Amazon US, and paid the listed price plus 20% for duty and freight, up front, to Amazon. All units shipped from the US, landed at home safe and sound, in 10 days. Later Amazon stopped India shipping, and I had noticed that Sonos kit was available in India for silly prices compared to those I had paid. I noticed recently that India shipping has again started, and this month I moved my entire system to an all Sonos platform. Same efficient delivery. Warranty support could be an issue, but I have had no failures since August 2011.
 
My system now

To illustrate how it all comes together, as one combination of many possible solutions, my system now is:
1. Main system - Harbeth C7 speakers, fed by a Connect Amp stashed out of sight behind the speakers, allowing very short and neat speaker cable runs, and mains feed to the amp.
2. Open plan dining and kitchen - Stereo pair of play 1 units, anchored by an out of sight Sonos Sub. Only mains connections.
3. Balcony - Bose 251 external speakers, powered by a Yamaha amp, both of which I had bought a long time ago, fed by a Connect. If I was buying today, I would take a simpler route.
4. Bedroom - single Play 5 unit, connected to the mains.
All of this fed music by a Sonos Bridge and WD passport USB HDD, wired to the home wifi router - all out of sight. No more cable spaghetti that is such a mess to manage besides being a dust collector, no component rack taking up footprint.
Internet radio works as well as the current bottleneck - broadband connection speed - will allow it to. As this improves as I am sure it will over time in India, things will only get better. Currently the 256kbps and above streams such as Linn suffer from broadband pipe constraints at times. Lesser streams such as Jazzradio are very stable, and heard sound quality is good enough to access music I don't own, from all over the world. I haven't ever exceeded my Airtel broadband plans on account of music play - this sometimes happens when heavy software updates are required for the two Macs we have, so this music access is effectively free.
For owned music, my entire CD collection is boxed and stored away. Another advantage is that the 80/20 effect - where over 80% of the time one is listening to less than 20% of the CDs - is not so marked. Make a playlist by genre, do a random play choice, and it is like...oooh, I had forgotten I have this music! There is a one time investment of time and effort of course, of ripping the CDs.
As long as one is looking to have multi room in the future, Sonos is a great place to start. With the launch of the play 1, if one can run a ethernet cable from it to the router, nothing else is needed, for a total landed cost of USD 240. Not unreasonable, I think, with surprisingly good sound quality from a unit of that price and size.
On the other hand, if all that is needed is the same kind of access to music, but never in more than one room, there are many other more VFM choices out there.
While I will be happy to answer questions here, the Sonos forum is truly the place to spend some time for better quality information about it.
 
You ripped all your cds in Mp3 or flac? what about when you were using apple ipod and airport express?
 
Re: My system now

With the launch of the play 1, if one can run a ethernet cable from it to the router, nothing else is needed, for a total landed cost of USD 240. Not unreasonable, I think, with surprisingly good sound quality from a unit of that price and size.
Expanding on the above, if one has the wifi router in place, and a HDD with music files wired to it, spending another USD 240 for a second play 1, and about USD 50 for the Bridge is a very useful set up. Set up as a stereo pair in one room, the pair will deliver good stereo sound in an average sized Indian room. One can go multi room at any time - break up the pairing on the controller, and move one unit to another room, supplying it mains power there. The other room could be a bedroom, kitchen or even a balcony that has a mains socket. If you must have stereo sound on the move in the home, shift both units at the same time.
A regular system - CDP+amp+stand mounted speakers - at about the same price if bought used, will give better sound, but not as much as to nullify the flexibility afforded by Sonos. Try moving that back and forth! Or to have it serve two rooms at the same time. Even then, it won't be able to deliver different music in two rooms as Sonos can do.
 
Hi Sawyer,

I own a ZP90 Zone player. The UI is just awesome the kind of flexibility it provides is too good. I was looking for an alternative for the second stereo system but could not find anything closer. As of now Foobar remote is the closest i have, but not definite SONOS kind of interface.

Did you get to hit upon anything on your search?

regards,
Prasanna KV
 
Interesting thread. I have been using Squeezeboxes for the past seven years and the flexibility and convenience of such devices is awesome.
Indeed. Once you are used to that, it is very difficult to do without it.
Hi Sawyer,

I own a ZP90 Zone player. The UI is just awesome the kind of flexibility it provides is too good. I was looking for an alternative for the second stereo system but could not find anything closer. As of now Foobar remote is the closest i have, but not definite SONOS kind of interface.

Did you get to hit upon anything on your search?

Sorry, search for what? If you want the second stereo system to be brought into the Sonos environment, you need another Connect - a renamed zp90.
PS: The zp90 has digital and analog outputs, which are alive at the same time and in theory could supply the second system. But you would get the same music in both rooms.
 
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Hi Sawyer,

Thanks for response. I have ZP90 in my bedroom. I need a seperate system in my dining room. Looking for cheaper alternative for Sonos with incredible UI like Sonos :p. Another ZP90 + bridge is going to offset me by 20K+.

regards,
Prasanna KV
 
Hi Sawyer,

Thanks for response. I have ZP90 in my bedroom. I need a seperate system in my dining room. Looking for cheaper alternative for Sonos with incredible UI like Sonos :p. Another ZP90 + bridge is going to offset me by 20K+.

regards,
Prasanna KV
I don't know any other system that has this level of UI. Plus, you would lose commonality. If your dining room is able to get wifi today, you would not need a bridge.
Look at a play 1 - will cost you about Rs 15k. On its own, it is quite adequate for the average Indian dining room. And when you can afford to, you can add another play 1 later, if you must have the stereo image there too.
 
Not having an open system, and using a proprietory one is a deal killer for me. I use an Android phone:), and not an Iphone.

The Sonos App has an Android and a PC version. Other than that it is a closed system largely, yes. As a non geek, I am quite ok with that.
 
Have they discontinued the Sonos 100/200 dedicated controllers?
My 100 seems to have conked out and cant seem to find anyplace i can get a replacement.
 
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