To Bangalore FMs: Do you have a REL sub integrated into your 2-Ch or HT system?

[captainsubtext]

Haha!! Like the way you have put it.
So my guess is, Vidar is in stereo mode and you use high level input on sub.
Cheers,
Raghu

Yes, the Vidar runs in stereo mode and I find integrating that somewhat easier than when using mono-blocs.

 

[raghupb]

Yes, the Vidar runs in stereo mode and I find integrating that somewhat easier than when using mono-blocs.

Good to hear this. I do an IA (Marantz PM 7001). Pairs well with R300, at least my ears don't complain.
But if I use this approach, it really throws a spanner in the works w.r.t the other components in my living room.

This aside, I was reading up about your main speakers, Jerns.
Lovely "gudiya/bombe" shaped speakers with interesting cabinet material.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Well ....
Compared to the sub I have for HT, I would like to believe that REL may perform better

I can only ask that you read some reviews or demo them before plopping them down for HT usage.

 

[raghupb]

I can only ask that you read some reviews or demo them before plopping them down for HT usage.

Currently, I am using an old sub for HT purpose. It gives a bit of support for the LFE.
Considering REL addition from music or 2-ch perspective.
If the sound is good for music and just comparable to what I have now for HT, it will suffice.
We watch one movie or max 2 movies per week. So the AVR with 3.1 gets played for about 6-8 hours per week.
As far as music goes, the usage is about 4-5 hours per day.
So my energies are towards a tight sealed sub for music support.

Anyways I will be soon visiting a local FM who has KEF R300s (same as mine) with a REL T5i.
This should give me a fair idea of what I'm chasing.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[liverpool_for_life]

So my energies are towards a tight sealed sub for music support.

Budget?

 

[raghupb]

Budget?

If it happens, 50-100K.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[elangoas]

50-100K.

If DIY is an option, you can easily build dual 12 inch sealed passive subs, powered by crown XLS 1502 2 channel power amplifier, inside 50K budget.. Sealed subs are the easiest to build of all, as there is no way you would go wrong..

If you have more budget, then you can build DIY Quad sealed subs..

I have 4 x 12 inch DIY sealed subs (IWAI drivers) in the living room which serves very well for both music / movies, and are capable of 100dB at 20Hz or even more..

 

[liverpool_for_life]

If it happens, 50-100K.
Cheers,
Raghu

At the higher end of your budget, the Seaton JS-12’s are well worth considering (I have a pair on order). Added bonus: They’re likely to be more than decent for HT

JS-12 Subwoofer

Flat rate shipping of $65 each within the lower 48 states. International customers please e-mail us with your shipping address and the number of units you are ordering so we can get back to you …

seatonsound.net

 

[square_wave]

Basically, all you need is a woofer, not a subwoofer. Neither an active subwoofer which is bad. You need a passive woofer which is an alterable frequency which matches with your bookshelf or floor stander.

The problems with active subwoofers are many. The stiffness of the subwoofer which is basically designed for HT application will not fit for many reasons. The stiffer suspension will be hard to move hence you don't get the layers in the bass. The amplifier will never get matched to the amplifier you feed with mids and highs. One subwoofer will suffer imaging. Woofer needs to be relatively closer to the mids and highs so that the integration and time domain issues and wavefront and wave radiation pattern along with lobe structure needs to match. But with a sub like what you find in HT will not gel well. If anyone says that no the active subwoofer sounds amazing and phenomenal then wait till you hear the passive woofer which can go deeper down to 30Hz or lower.

@sandyjhyderabad ,


Hi, I think what you are talking about is an ideal situation. 3 way speakers that can go down to 30 hz. However, this is not always possible in some living room spaces. There is also an issue with budget. The really good 3 way speakers that can go down low is expensive. Authentic low performance in a single cabinet has always been expensive. And then you need a really good amp to drive them. All this drives the budget through the roof. But I agree that there is a beauty to the way big 3 ways can play seamlessly across the frequency band that is mesmerizing.

The second best solution which is also cost effective is to use a pair of subs ( using high level speaker connections ) with a pair of high quality book shelf speakers. They key things to watch out for :

• Subs made for stereo ( absolute must )
• High level speaker connections so that the subs get the signal from the amp that is driving the midrange and tweeters. This helps keep the sound seamless ( almost ) tonally.
• Getting professional help with the setup and tuning. One can do this on their own if there is enough time.

If I am not mistaken, you own invention audio. I have met and heard the system at the whathifi show. So, you must have a lot of experience with these things. Would like your thoughts on this. Also, in the past I have heard of some high end custom systems where the sub is always active and servo controlled as well. An example of such a system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EvZMKUzyUE

What are your thoughts ?

 

[arj]

Do Look at the Rhythmik. They are apparently very musical and apparently the have a dealer in bangalore

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12G

www.rythmikaudio.com

 

[raghupb]

If DIY is an option, you can easily build dual 12 inch sealed passive subs, powered by crown XLS 1502 2 channel power amplifier, inside 50K budget.. Sealed subs are the easiest to build of all, as there is no way you would go wrong..

If you have more budget, then you can build DIY Quad sealed subs..

I have 4 x 12 inch DIY sealed subs (IWAI drivers) in the living room which serves very well for both music / movies, and are capable of 100dB at 20Hz or even more..

Thanks for the suggestion @elangoas

It is becoming quite clear that hosting 2 subs in the listening space is going to be cumbersome.
I was blaming it on family approval (wife, son and my 2 mutts).
Practically speaking, now even I am not convinced about eating up that much real estate.
The question of 2 subs came about since I use monoblocks and high level connection may induce GND imbalance.
Soon I will be acquiring a stereo power amp and frankly the low level connect that I'm playing with has made me lazy.
The fact that I can turn on/off the sub at will and tinker with level (if necessary) track upon track is very convenient.
With a stereo amp, if I acquire a sub, I can compare high and low level connects and decide.

Coming to DIY, it would make sense if one has done it before or has had experience with someone else's DIY.
In my case, I have no experience to tread down this path. So that's out of the equation.
Anyways, I am not looking for thumping bass; just something that will round up the music experience.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[raghupb]

At the higher end of your budget, the Seaton JS-12’s are well worth considering (I have a pair on order). Added bonus: They’re likely to be more than decent for HT

JS-12 Subwoofer

Flat rate shipping of $65 each within the lower 48 states. International customers please e-mail us with your shipping address and the number of units you are ordering so we can get back to you …

seatonsound.net

Saw the specs. Maple finish looks damn good.
The extension and roll-off numbers are quite commendable and they have measurements to boot.
I'll wait for your units arrival and following impressions.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[raghupb]

Do Look at the Rhythmik. They are apparently very musical and apparently the have a dealer in bangalore

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12G

www.rythmikaudio.com

Now what is servo sub? You have given me homework or reading project
It is dawning on me that subwoofer game is an underground cult.

On various forums the names usually mentioned for subs in 2-ch are:
REL, Rhythmik, JL Audio (not in any particular order)
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[square_wave]

Thanks for the suggestion @elangoas

It is becoming quite clear that hosting 2 subs in the listening space is going to be cumbersome.

Why don't you then change the speaker to a pair of floorstanding ones ? It will just take the same space as the 300 + stands. Bass problem is solved too.

 

[jr83]

I have a REL T5, but in Mumbai, happy to help for any queries!

 

[square_wave]

Now what is servo sub?

Here you go.

 

[raghupb]

Why don't you then change the speaker to a pair of floorstanding ones ? It will just take the same space as the 300 + stands. Bass problem is solved too.

Can't do that. My dogs go dangerously close to the drivers.
The older male dog likes to think anything taller than himself in wood is a pee post.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I'll wait for your units arrival and following impressions.

Sure, or you can buy blind based on impressions such as these: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-...58574-new-sealed-sub-choice.html#post57808066

Mark Seaton is a world-class speaker designer and his subs are reputed to be some of the best made. Ever. I have a pair of his bigger sealed subs (https://seatonsound.net/product/submersivehp/) and I'm just beginning to hear what they're capable of as my room (and EQ'ing skills) get better.

 

[raghupb]

I have a REL T5, but in Mumbai, happy to help for any queries!

Since I'm new to this realm of subs in 2-channel, I don't know what questions to ask yet
Also there is some component churn happening, yet to happen in the near future.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[raghupb]

Sure, or you can buy blind based on impressions such as these: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-...58574-new-sealed-sub-choice.html#post57808066

Mark Seaton is a world-class speaker designer and his subs are reputed to be some of the best made. Ever. I have a pair of his bigger sealed subs (https://seatonsound.net/product/submersivehp/) and I'm just beginning to hear what they're capable of as my room (and EQ'ing skills) get better.

Will read up. Thanks!!
Cheers,
Raghu