TT for beginner - Need advice

[AMITNOIDA]

The Trigon Advance phonostage is installed on Sunday. The gain is set at about 1.5 mV (as my DL-160 output voltage is 1.6 mV). The electrical impedence of DL-160, as shown at Vinylengine is 160 ohm. So I have set the impedence setting at that level in Trigon Advance.

This is the first time handling of any TT / phono by me. So, went ahead cautiously.

The sound seems to be slightly bright (compared to sound in my TT pairing with Virenji's own and fully burnt in Lyrita Phono during setting up the TT). The Trigon Advance phono would require burning in and expected to be comparatively mellow and open after about 40 hours or so. Listened to LPs by Engelbert Humperdinck, Gordon Lightfoot, Anarkali, Ghazals by Rafi, Santoor by Shivkumar Sharma. All the LPs collected from used Market and cleaned with Knosti.

A new chapter in listening begins...

 

[arj]

Great to Hear !!!
The Lyrita is a lot more warmer than the Trigon

 

[AMITNOIDA]

I had set the impedance of Trigon Advance wrongly. As the dealer suggested, for my high output MC cart Denon Dl-160 I changed the impedance setting to 47kohm. Listened about 6 LPs yesterday. The sound is slowly opening up, the brightness is going away. The Trigon Advance is not very warm, I can say it faintly warmish neutral. The singer voices are coming very good. In my system, I always used to complain about loose bass. But after changing the speaker wire from 3.5 M TTK cable to 2 M biwired cable from Morrow audio I have found that looseness of Bass (upto a certain volume level, which is more than adequate for my room size) has reduced and now I am not complaining like earlier. But obviously, a more powerful amp with more current can convert the bass further tighter. Recently, I have quickly auditioned Ascendo speaker while picking up my SVS sub (for my HT in other room) from Bass & Treble and I should say I could listen one of the tightest bass, ever heard in my life. The amps were Manley Pre and Bryston 4BSSc (if I am correct) power.

Overall, I am satisfied with my TT-Phono set-up and also with the comparatively better bass performance from my BE-718, specially when playing TT. Thanks again to Asit, Arjun and Abhi for their help and guidance.

 

[anm]

good to hear your TT pursuit has come to a satisfying end. Time to get a new pair of speakers I suppose

 

[himadri]

Overall, I am satisfied with my TT-Phono set-up and also with the comparatively better bass performance from my BE-718, specially when playing TT. Thanks again to Asit, Arjun and Abhi for their help and guidance.

Nice to see that you have completed the project and also shared the journey with us . Congrtats and Enjoy.

cheers
himadri

 

[pratimbayal]

Good to hear about the out come of your long journey. Happy listening.


Regards

 

[sachi]

If I may jump in on this thread, Have a question regarding phono stages.

I am finally wetting my feet in vinyl and will be picking up my table this saturday. Will also be picking up a phono stage to play with till i am able to build a pass pearl 2.

How does the Cambridge Audio 640P sound like a decent phono to begin with?

The table is a THorens TD160 mk1 with SME3009 series 2 arm. Probably going to be using a AT120E cartridge to start things out.

I'll freely admit I have no clue what iam doing here.. but willing to learn. So If i am being stupid please let me know

 

[issigonis]

I had set the impedance of Trigon Advance wrongly.

Overall, I am satisfied with my TT-Phono set-up and also with the comparatively better bass performance from my BE-718, specially when playing TT. Thanks again to Asit, Arjun and Abhi for their help and guidance.

>>>

AMITNOIDA,

Congrats on your analogue adventure. I will be curious to know how the Trigon Advance phone shapes up. I am visiting Bangalore soon to audition Jochen's Premier turn table with the rest of his set up.

His current set up is : Scheu Premier with the Cantus 12" arm and Scheu MC cart. The second arm is the Scheu Classic 12" with Einstein TU2 cartridge. Phono amps are Einstein 'The Turntable's Choice' and Trigon 'Vanguard'.
Amplifiers are Einstein 'The Absolute Tune', Trigon 'Energy' integrated amp and Trigon 'TRV100' pre amp and Trigon 'TRE50M' mono power amps.
The speakers are Blumenhofer Fun17.

Regards
issigonis

 

[jls001]

If I may jump in on this thread, Have a question regarding phono stages.

I am finally wetting my feet in vinyl and will be picking up my table this saturday. Will also be picking up a phono stage to play with till i am able to build a pass pearl 2.

How does the Cambridge Audio 640P sound like a decent phono to begin with?

The table is a THorens TD160 mk1 with SME3009 series 2 arm. Probably going to be using a AT120E cartridge to start things out.

I'll freely admit I have no clue what iam doing here.. but willing to learn. So If i am being stupid please let me know

The TD 160 Mark I is a well-regarded table. Do check if the belt is in good condition. In any case, it may be a good idea to replace it. You should get very good ones from Thakkers for less than $20.

I think the SME 3009 II is a light arm so it may be best to pair it to higher compliance cartridges like the AT120E. Other options (if you can get) could be Shure V15 cartridge, or even the Shure M97xE (easily and cheaply available), or Ortofon Super OM 10/20/30/40.

Since you admitted to knowing nothing, here's some more free advice

a) Set up the turntable on a level surface. A good tool to have is a spirit level. Once you think the 'table has been levelled, a good way to check it is to play it without any record and check if the platter is rotating perfectly flat without bobbing up and down even slightly. It is very unlikely that the platter itself would be bent, so if any bobbing is apparent, then it is most likely due to the levelling.

b) Tonearm set up: with the cartridge fitted on the tonearm, and stylus protection on, reset the counterweight to zero. To do this, you push the rider weight that rides on the (bent) way rod to the rearmost position (as seen from the front of the turntable). Set the antiskate also to zero (remove temporarily the hanging thingie). Then set about balancing the arm by moving the balance weight. To do this, you will need to loosen the allen nut using appropriate sized allen key. Download SME 3009 manual from vinylengine.com to understand the terms like way rod, rider weight, antiskate weight, etc.

Once the arm is balanced, set the rider weight to the tracking force recommended for the cartridge. Each notch is 0.5 gms. After that, set the antiskate also to same weight. Each notch on the antiskate arm is again 0.5 gms.

Warning: be very gentle while doing all this as you may damage your stylus. I am assuming you have stylus guard. If you don't have stylus guard, then don't even do it. Get a pro to do it for you.

c) Use the arm lift to lift the arm, position arm over record, and gently lower lift arm to start playing record.

d) Use lift arm again to stop playing. If you have a very steady hand, you may try lifting the arm off directly without aid of the lift arm.

e) sit back, enjoy, have your favourite adult beverage.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

>>>

AMITNOIDA,

Congrats on your analogue adventure. I will be curious to know how the Trigon Advance phone shapes up. I am visiting Bangalore soon to audition Jochen's Premier turn table with the rest of his set up.

His current set up is : Scheu Premier with the Cantus 12" arm and Scheu MC cart. The second arm is the Scheu Classic 12" with Einstein TU2 cartridge. Phono amps are Einstein 'The Turntable's Choice' and Trigon 'Vanguard'.
Amplifiers are Einstein 'The Absolute Tune', Trigon 'Energy' integrated amp and Trigon 'TRV100' pre amp and Trigon 'TRE50M' mono power amps.
The speakers are Blumenhofer Fun17.

Regards
issigonis

The Trigon Advance phono is slightly warmish neutral, huge soundstage and black noiseless background. It is shaping up pretty nicely. So far I could play around 8-9 hours. The initial brightness is going away and the phono is opening up. The sound will improve once it is burnt in for about 40 hours or so.

The set-up at TLR Bangalore, I know, is really enjoyable. Of course, you will not be able to listen the Trigon Advance phono there, because I have purchased the one, which Jochen ordered for himself for demo purpose. But I picked up it straight out-of-the box. The Trigon Vanguard is slightly more warm compared to Trigon Advance. I am very satisfied with this Phono pairing with my DL-160 cart.

 

[issigonis]

>>>
Had a satisfying trip and a nice audition at TLR Bangalore.
Jochen recommends the Cello, Jelco arm, DL 103, the Trigon Vanguard phono, Trigon Integrated amp, with either the Blumenhofer big Fun 17 or the Genuin FS 4.2 along with WSS Silver Line cables. Discussed the rack, the RCM and the record weight too with him.
Am currently trying to design the rack before finalising with Jochen. Messaged fellow forum member Asit for his latest feedback on his Cello.

How is your rig doing?

Any inputs on picking up Hindustani. Classical LPs ( both vocal & instrumental)?

Regards
issigonis

 

[prem]

Hi Issigonis


If budget permits go with Einstein integrated amp and phono stage

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

With that sort of budget do look at Accuphase with its phono board. Sophisticated and powerful.

 

[issigonis]

Hi Issigonis


If budget permits go with Einstein integrated amp and phono stage

>>>
prem,
Right now my budget is at full stretch. This is going to be all new set up with no legacy components. Moreover the fact that my mother will use this prompted the selection of the Cello over the Premier II. As it is, I have compromised my initial concept of starting from a very good source and over time ups along the follow on components. At this time this set up will do as a decent rig. What do you think?
Regards
issigonis
P.S : my dream of a better TT and a pure valve all SET class A operation set up has not withered completely. Hopefully another round of economic reforms forced on a cynical political class will carry me in its wake, making a (future) upscaled rig affordable!

 

[prem]

Hi Issigonis

No issues on what you have shortlisted. The Cello is a very good tt as is your choice of other components. Instead of the Trigon integrated, you could probably consider the Leben 300 if tubes still interest you. I think it will sound very good with Blumenhofer

 

[prem]

Hi Gerry the Merry

I would take the Einstein any day over the Accuphase. Einstein sounds quite magical, especially their phono stage. In fact i much prefer the Luxman new range over the Accuphase.

 

[prem]

Hi Issigonis


The Redwine Sig 15 integrated amp at $1500 will also be a very good option with Blumenhofer.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Hi Prem
I dont know if too many people have heard the Accuphase phono. At Rs50k, for just the electronics, it is quite comfortably the best VFM option I have seen, considering that you save on cabinet, power supply, interconnect, and all associated clutter, all of which would take the tab for equivalent sound north of Rs125k. The same goes for the identically priced DAC board. Build quality of the Amp is magnificent, but Sound quality is a bit subjective, each listener has to make up his own mind. Moon i7 with its inbuilt dual mono was also a beautiful piece. Havent heard Einstein, would love to, though, with the description you are giving.

 

[prem]

Hi GerrytheMerry


I have only heard the Accuphase amps, not their phonostage but considering that Issigonis is looking at Blumenhofer, he probably would not need an Accuphase to drive it. A 15 to 50 watt amp should be enough. There is no doubting the build quality of an Accuphase. You cant get much better than that

 

[issigonis]

Hi Issigonis


The Redwine Sig 15 integrated amp at $1500 will also be a very good option with Blumenhofer.

>>>
prem,
Thank you for this input. Will read up on the Sig 15 and also check with Jochen re. compatibility with the rest of the set up. At this point in time I am looking at ( a reasonable) plug and play which my mother can use without worrying too much about various controls/buttons. Later down the line, after I have been exposed to the sound well enough to critique it w.r.t other systems, I will upgrade. That is one reason for the dimension to be 75 x 62 with a total height of 90 with three shelves (all in cms).
Regards