Tube Preamp

[Decadent_Spectre]

I'm looking for a tube preamp. I will try to post a clear picture so that people can make appropriate recommendations. Firstly I am very happy with my sound, I don't intend this to be an "improvement" or "upgrade", it is merely a curiosity. I fully expect to connect it, listen for 10 minutes and then put it into storage, I'm okay with that. My knowledge of tubes is non existent. So I will say that I am looking for the "standard bearer" of tube sound, preamp only, no amps. My preference for type of sound would be "warm,sweet,gooey", on the other side of the spectrum I do not want "snap,detail,clarity". This is for a regular speaker system, not for headphones. I do not wish to get into any debates about chain/equipment so please do not ask about it, I will not reply. Here is the list of my requirements -

1) Must have 2 XLR inputs and 2 XLR outputs.
2) Must have minimum 3V maximum output voltage, prefer 5-7V.
3) Must be available, with warranty, and serviceable in India.
4) Must cost 50,000 INR or less, all inclusive.
5) Must have quintessential tube sound.


If there are any other aspects to this that needs to be clarified then please do ask. I will not deviate from my requirements so please don't suggest preamps which may be good but do not meet all my requirements.

Thank you for your time.

 

[thedude]

It’s a tough ask for a balanced tube pre at 50k

 

[drkrack]

I'm looking for a tube preamp. I will try to post a clear picture so that people can make appropriate recommendations. Firstly I am very happy with my sound, I don't intend this to be an "improvement" or "upgrade", it is merely a curiosity. I fully expect to connect it, listen for 10 minutes and then put it into storage, I'm okay with that. My knowledge of tubes is non existent. So I will say that I am looking for the "standard bearer" of tube sound, preamp only, no amps. My preference for type of sound would be "warm,sweet,gooey", on the other side of the spectrum I do not want "snap,detail,clarity". This is for a regular speaker system, not for headphones. I do not wish to get into any debates about chain/equipment so please do not ask about it, I will not reply. Here is the list of my requirements -

1) Must have 2 XLR inputs and 2 XLR outputs.
2) Must have minimum 3V maximum output voltage, prefer 5-7V.
3) Must be available, with warranty, and serviceable in India.
4) Must cost 50,000 INR or less, all inclusive.
5) Must have quintessential tube sound.


If there are any other aspects to this that needs to be clarified then please do ask. I will not deviate from my requirements so please don't suggest preamps which may be good but do not meet all my requirements.

Thank you for your time.

If you Can get Pre owned Schiit Freya 1st Gen it'll be a good option.
Otherwise You can Talk to Acoustic Portrait guys to Configure their Swara Tube Preamp with XLR inputs and Outputs as per your requirements, that's a decent option as well.
There is Anode acoustics and Lyrita audio tube preamplifiers but I doubt they will come with XLR inputs or outputs.

Tube sound may not be for everyone ; but giving a try with decent quality tube gear is worth while..
Else you could start with cheap Chinese options like fx audio tube 01 preamp (RCA only) etc. (that's how I started and upgraded later)

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. So is it a general consensus that what I am looking for is not possible at my target price?

If you Can get Pre owned Schiit Freya 1st Gen it'll be a good option.
Otherwise You can Talk to Acoustic Portrait guys to Configure their Swara Tube Preamp with XLR inputs and Outputs as per your requirements, that's a decent option as well.
There is Anode acoustics and Lyrita audio tube preamplifiers but I doubt they will come with XLR inputs or outputs.

Tube sound may not be for everyone ; but giving a try with decent quality tube gear is worth while..
Else you could start with cheap Chinese options like fx audio tube 01 preamp (RCA only) etc. (that's how I started and upgraded later)

A very helpful reply, thank you. The Freya looks to be what I want but I did not see maximum output voltage listed in the specs. There were no distributors listed either, perhaps I missed it? Do you happen to know who are the Indian distributors and if the products can be serviced in India or are they an internet direct company? May I also ask why you mention 1st gen, I could not find it on their website. I looked at the other choices you listed but could not find much information. I would agree that it is worthwhile to try out just to see what it's like. I have heard tubes before but it was many years ago at various dealers locations so my memory is hazy. Is there a Chinese preamp that would suit my needs?

 

[drkrack]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. So is it a general consensus that what I am looking for is not possible at my target price?



A very helpful reply, thank you. The Freya looks to be what I want but I did not see maximum output voltage listed in the specs. There were no distributors listed either, perhaps I missed it? Do you happen to know who are the Indian distributors and if the products can be serviced in India or are they an internet direct company? May I also ask why you mention 1st gen, I could not find it on their website. I looked at the other choices you listed but could not find much information. I would agree that it is worthwhile to try out just to see what it's like. I have heard tubes before but it was many years ago at various dealers locations so my memory is hazy. Is there a Chinese preamp that would suit my needs?

Headphonezone is the official dealer for India for schiit products, but I don't think they have it in stock; even if it is available, it will be more than 80k easily. Getting imported directly from schiit website USA to India is an option if you can handle Customs. But either way your max budget of 50k won't suffice.
Freya first gen is not mentioned as first gen anywhere but mentioned as plain Freya , the Latest one comes with name of Freya+. That is bit confusing but I am using the second gen aka Freya+ and quite happy with the performance.

There's Chinese preamp is on sale in HFV classifieds: it doesn't have XLR, but its good. FM @guddu478 is selling AFAIK.
You can search on Aliexpress for XLR tube preamps but with Pandemic and sanctions against China, it'll be a headache to import one here. I'd rather think of getting a FREYA+ hand carried from US / Canada or Customising Acoustic Portrait Swara Tube Pre to suit my requirements instead.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Headphonezone is the official dealer for India for schiit products, but I don't think they have it in stock; even if it is available, it will be more than 80k easily. Getting imported directly from schiit website USA to India is an option if you can handle Customs. But either way your max budget of 50k won't suffice.
Freya first gen is not mentioned as first gen anywhere but mentioned as plain Freya , the Latest one comes with name of Freya+. That is bit confusing but I am using the second gen aka Freya+ and quite happy with the performance.

There's Chinese preamp is on sale in HFV classifieds: it doesn't have XLR, but its good. FM @guddu478 is selling AFAIK.
You can search on Aliexpress for XLR tube preamps but with Pandemic and sanctions against China, it'll be a headache to import one here. I'd rather think of getting a FREYA+ hand carried from US / Canada or Customising Acoustic Portrait Swara Tube Pre to suit my requirements instead.

I see, while budget may be extended it is difficult to compromise on the other requirements. Even if I could import/get someone to carry the Freya from the US I have two concerns. Firstly what is the maximum output voltage? Secondly is it serviceable in India?

What is the difference between the first gen and second gen?

Would you describe the Freya as having a "typical" tube sound or is it filling some specific niche? I will look into Acoustic Portrait but will they customize?

Thanks again for your replies.

 

[newlash09]

I see, while budget may be extended it is difficult to compromise on the other requirements. Even if I could import/get someone to carry the Freya from the US I have two concerns. Firstly what is the maximum output voltage? Secondly is it serviceable in India?

What is the difference between the first gen and second gen?

Would you describe the Freya as having a "typical" tube sound or is it filling some specific niche? I will look into Acoustic Portrait but will they customize?

Thanks again for your replies.

Hi @decadent spectre

Any reason why you are particularly looking for a tube preamp with high output voltage. High output voltage would mean pushing the tubes at high and dangerous DC voltages, which will reduce their life and increase distortion dramatically. Of course since you like a gooey and syrupy sound, you might end up liking the distortion. But on the negative side, you might end up with audible hiss especially from the tweeters and upper mid range .

And as @thedude , correctly mentioned, having xlr inputs and outputs doesn't make a preamp a balanced design. So you might also settle for RCA connections . IMO balanced tube preamps are expensive, and balanced DHT preamps even more so.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Hi @decadent spectre

Any reason why you are particularly looking for a tube preamp with high output voltage. High output voltage would mean pushing the tubes at high and dangerous DC voltages, which will reduce their life and increase distortion dramatically. Of course since you like a gooey and syrupy sound, you might end up liking the distortion. But on the negative side, you might end up with audible hiss especially from the tweeters and upper mid range .

And as @thedude , correctly mentioned, having xlr inputs and outputs doesn't make a preamp a balanced design. So you might also settle for RCA connections . IMO balanced tube preamps are expensive, and balanced DHT preamps even more so.

My system is all pro audio based components, I need sufficient voltage to drive my amps. Depending on the amp/gain etc I might get away with less voltage but I prefer to keep it a little high. For my intended use, I estimated 3V is the minimum I needed. As noted 3V is my minimum, but higher would be preferable. I don't mind the distortion or chance of tube damage as I don't expect to keep it in my system long, as mentioned it is a curiosity, nothing more. I think of it as an experiment .

Do you feel the Freya as suggested is inappropriate for my needs?

 

[newlash09]

My system is all pro audio based components, I need sufficient voltage to drive my amps. Depending on the amp/gain etc I might get away with less voltage but I prefer to keep it a little high. For my intended use, I estimated 3V is the minimum I needed. As noted 3V is my minimum, but higher would be preferable. I don't mind the distortion or chance of tube damage as I don't expect to keep it in my system long, as mentioned it is a curiosity, nothing more. I think of it as an experiment .

Do you feel the Freya as suggested is inappropriate for my needs?

Hi decadent spectre

Iam sorry I have never heard schiit freya....but being a good friend of Dr.krack, and having heard and knowing and trusting his ear to judge gear, I would buy the schiit freya blind, as recommended by him

This whole hobby is a gamble as you might know by now. But buying blind, I would go with Dr.krack

Edit:
By the way when you mention pro audio...do you mean active powered studio monitors by any chance ....they all have inbuilt amplification between 27 to 29 db of gain, which I feel is actually a over kill. You would go deaf like me, if you listened at any thing more than 30 % gain

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Hi decadent spectre

Iam sorry I have never heard schiit freya....but being a good friend of Dr.krack, and having heard and knowing and trusting his ear to judge gear, I would buy the schiit freya blind, as recommended by him

This whole hobby is a gamble as you might know by now. But buying blind, I would go with Dr.krack

By the way when you mention pro audio...do you mean active powered studio monitors by any chance ....they all have inbuilt amplification between 27 to 29 db of gain, which I feel is actually a over kill. You would go deaf like me, if you listened at any thing more than 30 % gain

There is little concern for me over the details of it's sound, my only primary goal is to add "tube sound" to my system, "typical tube sound" to be precise. I am not after anything in particular. No, not monitors. Not really worried about going deaf as if I were to limit my listening levels it would defeat the purpose of listening to music and watching video for me. If it helps my average levels on a daily basis are about 105db at listening position between 40Hz-1KHz, it is rolled off above and below that. I'm all about the bass/midbass/lower midrange.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

my average levels on a daily basis are about 105db

Whoa! Careful. You’d want to enjoy your music for many more years.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Whoa! Careful. You’d want to enjoy your music for many more years.

Ears are currently fine, I've been listening at louder levels than 105db for a long time, it is only in recent years that I have come down to 105db. Years ago I would listen at 115db most of the time and "loud" sessions pushed 130db. Please do note the frequency range as human ears are more tolerant the lower you go in frequency.

 

[venkatcr]

Anything over 70-80dB on a continuous basis is harmful for the human ears. Most young kids today are going partially deaf by using headphones at high volumes on a continuous basis. You really need to consult with an ENT specialist!!

 

[newlash09]

There is little concern for me over the details of it's sound, my only primary goal is to add "tube sound" to my system, "typical tube sound" to be precise. I am not after anything in particular. No, not monitors. Not really worried about going deaf as if I were to limit my listening levels it would defeat the purpose of listening to music and watching video for me. If it helps my average levels on a daily basis are about 105db at listening position between 40Hz-1KHz, it is rolled off above and below that. I'm all about the bass/midbass/lower midrange.

Well not with standing the earlier pointers, posted by fellow concerned members. You shouldn't really be listening at this kind of volumes. Usually volume is associated with distortion in ones head. But if you have a system that sounds clean, as you crank it up, then you really wont feel it is loud enough, as there is no distortion. Which is actually my case

That is until my wife comes banging the door

 

[newlash09]

There is little concern for me over the details of it's sound, my only primary goal is to add "tube sound" to my system, "typical tube sound" to be precise. I am not after anything in particular. No, not monitors. Not really worried about going deaf as if I were to limit my listening levels it would defeat the purpose of listening to music and watching video for me. If it helps my average levels on a daily basis are about 105db at listening position between 40Hz-1KHz, it is rolled off above and below that. I'm all about the bass/midbass/lower midrange.

Okay if you want typical tube sound then Conrad Johnson is the way ahead . I remember seeing one in the "for sale " section a few days back or you could add a tube dac before a SS preamp if you run a all digital chain and still get the same results.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Anything over 70-80dB on a continuous basis is harmful for the human ears. Most young kids today are going partially deaf by using headphones at high volumes on a continuous basis. You really need to consult with an ENT specialist!!

I did get my ears checked via some machines, I forget what it's called and took the report to an ENT in 2019 or 2018 I think, I don't remember. I do remember that my ears were fine according to the ENT. He told me the same thing though, don't listen so loud.

Well not with standing the earlier pointers, posted by fellow concerned members. You shouldn't really be listening at this kind of volumes. Usually volume is associated with distortion in ones head. But if you have a system that sounds clean, as you crank it up, then you really wont feel it is loud enough, as there is no distortion. Which is actually my case

That is until my wife comes banging the door

There is no harshness at the volumes I listen to (and beyond) with my tuning of the sound for my preference, but I won't get into distortion (or THD numbers), I want to keep this thread on topic. For over 10 years I've been listening to volumes beyond 105db, and at least 8 years beyond 115db, I have no plans to give it up. Now that I think about it, the volume on video is actually a little lower but music is definitely 105db or thereabouts.

Okay if you want typical tube sound then Conrad Johnson is the way ahead . I remember seeing one in the "for sale " section a few days back or you could add a tube dac before a SS preamp if you run a all digital chain and still get the same results.

Do they have a preamp that meets my needs? I have something doing DAC duties which I do not want to change, so no DACs, only preamp. That is the entire reason I decided on a preamp, so that I could add it to my existing system, satisfy my curiosity and then go back to the way the sound was before.

 

[newlash09]

I did get my ears checked via some machines, I forget what it's called and took the report to an ENT in 2019 or 2018 I think, I don't remember. I do remember that my ears were fine according to the ENT. He told me the same thing though, don't listen so loud.




There is no harshness at the volumes I listen to (and beyond) with my tuning of the sound for my preference, but I won't get into distortion (or THD numbers), I want to keep this thread on topic. For over 10 years I've been listening to volumes beyond 105db, and at least 8 years beyond 115db, I have no plans to give it up. Now that I think about it, the volume on video is actually a little lower but music is definitely 105db or thereabouts.


Do they have a preamp that meets my needs? I have something doing DAC duties which I do not want to change, so no DACs, only preamp. That is the entire reason I decided on a preamp, so that I could add it to my existing system, satisfy my curiosity and then go back to the way the sound was before.

Sadly you won't find a gooey and syrupy sounding tube preamp with this kind of gain, and no audible distortion, at any budget....you could start with a wallet of a crore..but you won't find one that is balanced and outputs 3V's

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Sadly you won't find a gooey and syrupy sounding tube preamp with this kind of gain, and no audible distortion, at any budget....you could start with a wallet of a crore..but you won't find one that is balanced and outputs 3V's

What gain? I don't mind audible distortion, it will be a change from clean sound. I'd like to try it anyway and see what I get. As I've repeatedly mentioned, I don't intend to keep it in my system for more than 10 minutes to satisfy my curiosity. I might keep it longer if I like what I hear but I highly doubt I will. In any case whether I find a suitable preamp and decide to put it in storage or if I can't find one, I don't mind too much either way as I already have sound I am satisfied with . The absolute worst case scenario here is that my curiosity won't be sated, I'm sure I can live with that.

 

[newlash09]

What gain? I don't mind audible distortion, it will be a change from clean sound. I'd like to try it anyway and see what I get. As I've repeatedly mentioned, I don't intend to keep it in my system for more than 10 minutes to satisfy my curiosity. I might keep it longer if I like what I hear but I highly doubt I will. In any case whether I find a suitable preamp and decide to put it in storage or if I can't find one, I don't mind too much either way as I already have sound I am satisfied with . The absolute worst case scenario here is that my curiosity won't be sated, I'm sure I can live with that.

How about reaching out to some forum members within you city and check if someone is willing to lend their tube preamp for a try. That should scratch you're itch id guess

 

[fLUX]

What gain? I don't mind audible distortion, it will be a change from clean sound. I'd like to try it anyway and see what I get. As I've repeatedly mentioned, I don't intend to keep it in my system for more than 10 minutes to satisfy my curiosity. I might keep it longer if I like what I hear but I highly doubt I will. In any case whether I find a suitable preamp and decide to put it in storage or if I can't find one, I don't mind too much either way as I already have sound I am satisfied with . The absolute worst case scenario here is that my curiosity won't be sated, I'm sure I can live with that.

I think Lyrita audio might be a good bet for tubey sound based on the feedback I got.