Upgrading HT system for music

[doors666]

Hi Guys,

I am expecting some money in a few months time and I wish to upgade my system. Damn!!! The only solution for the upgraditis it seems is to do an upgrade!!

I currently have an HT system. I wish to improvise it for music purposes. I am not planning on getting rid of the HT, just do things to get better music.

Current System

Amp
Yamaha RXV 663

Speakers
B&W 602S2 for mains.
LCR 600S3 for center
B&W Rock solid for the rears.
DIY Sub with CSS SDX15 and Dayton 550w plate amp.

Sources
HTPC with essence ST, marantz 6000 OSE (dont use it much), denon tape deck (dont use it much), JVC XV-BP1 for blurays and mkvs.

Cables
generic MX cables.

Budget
I am expecting around 1 lakh, and I can generate another 20-30k by selling some of the gear. So my budget is around 1.3 lakhs. I can raise it for some really kick ass combo, but otherwise the budget stays.

The system is in my living cum dining room and its plenty large.

Music Preferences
Classic rock, blues, metal, jazz, classical, bollywood stuff. In the specified order of preference.

Speakers

I need to upgrade the mains Thats priority number one and I would like to spend the max of the budget on this. I want bookshelves, floorstanders are out (unless of course I just love it and there is no higher level bookshelf). Reason being, for the same amount of money, I can get better speakers and I already have a kick ass subwoofer.

Option 1 Just Upgrade the speakers
Currently I am eyeing the Usher BE718, B&W 805S (either used or from US). I also want to check out the spendor, ATC, ProAC etc. Any other recommendations? Can someone tell me which models from these guys will fit into my budget.

If I go for any of these speakers, most probably I will end up exhausting my entire budget. Is this a good option to go for the best speakers for the entire money, or should I split it between speakers and another amp/pre/pre-power combo.
What will give me better sound for music? An RXV-663 with BE718 or say for example a X-718 with a decent integrated amp?

Option 2 Upgrade speakers and Amp

Buy cheaper speakers say for around 70-80k and upgrade the Amp for around 50-60k. This option has various possibilities.

2.1 Pre-Amp
Buy a pre amp for music, use the Yamaha for amplification. This will probably rule out the power hungry Ushers. I am using the 2 extra channels for bi-amplification, though I suspect that wont make much of a difference, and the yammy doesnt allow me to do bridging.

Tube pre-amp. Might give best results, but will be a pain in the ass to match or so Ive heard.
Solid state 2 channel pre-amp. Which one?

2.2 Integrated Amp
Supposedly the best option. Any suggestions? I am not really interested in nad, CA, marantz, denon etc as I dont think I am going to get a lot of improvement over my 663. If its not a significant improvement, I am not interested. e.g. when I go from my 602s2 to 805s or be718, it will be a clear and significant improvement.

2.3 2 channel power amp
I think the pre-amp will be a better option than this as pre-amp affects the sound more. Am I right?

Need your help guys, I dont have much of an exposure to high end (or even mid end) gear. This upgrade and hence the thread will surely run for a few months as I am in the very initial stages of research.
the
Thanx.

 

[afj]

with that budget go for a separate system. youre not going to get any joy listening to music out of the 602s or the yamaha. as for which set up - listen to them before you buy. theyre all good but they have their own identity and only you will know what you prefer

 

[doors666]

with that budget go for a separate system. youre not going to get any joy listening to music out of the 602s or the yamaha. as for which set up - listen to them before you buy. theyre all good but they have their own identity and only you will know what you prefer

there are a few reasons why i dont want to split the system.
1. space problems. if i have two systems, that means two sets of main speakers...
2. very low WAF, see point 1
3. cant share sources. right now, i use my htpc for both music and movies.
4. cant share the sub...
5. more expensive as i will need two sets of mains. if i dont sell the 602s, i wont have 1.3, just about 1.0 lacs for upgrades.

Anyway, i dont need a separate system to get the best out of music.. , I can upgrade the mains speakers and go for an integrated amplifier, use the AVR pre-outs for mains and send it to the integrated amp. the music sources will goto the int amp and the video sources will goto the avrs.

I will audition the system before i purchase and make a decision based on that. I am not asking you to tell me which ones to buy, but rather trying to compile a list of which speakers and amps to try.... and thats what i need suggestions for. in the given budget, what are my options... as jack nicholson said in some movie, I am drowning here and you are describing the water to me:lol: i'm just kidding, no offense..

I'll restate the options... Assume new mains speakers with all of these options.

1. get a pre-amp, use 663 as power amp. either tube or solid state.
2. get a power amp, use 663 as a pre-amp.
3. get an integrated amp.
4. just get the best speakers i can and use 663.

And I dont fully agree with you on the int amp. if I go for say 50-50 split of money for int and spkrs, Vs spend 1.3L on spkrs and use 663 as amp. The choice is not so clear. what the 663 lacks in quality, the doubly expensive spkrs will nicely make up for it....

 

[Kevian]

How about spending on solid speakers and a nice DAC for now?

and save the rest of your money for pre-power amp purchase in future.

I am not a guru so I don't know if my advice is worth mentioning here or not ...it just struck to me..so thought of sharing with you.

 

[doors666]

essence st has a pretty good dac. i think i will have to spend quite a lot to beat that. i do want to get great speakers.. thats another reason why if possible i want to use 663 for amplification, it gives me the flexibility to upgrade later with pre-power as and when i get more money... that will also cure my future upgraditis:lol:

 

[Brajendu]

If youa re considering Tube amps, please look for the Lyrita Audio. (Lyrita Audio )I just visited Mr. Viren Bakhshi (the man behind Lyrita) in his Delhi residence from where he operates his whole business. It was such a nice experience with his warm welcome and rich experience in tube technology. The best system he makes costs around 80k (amp + a pair of speakers), but it's unmatched in this price... if possible find if someone has this system in Banglore.

 

[venk61176]

Hi Doors,

My suggestion for you would be


On the speakers if its floor stander

Quad 22L2-> Dynaaudio Excite X32-> Tannoy DC4-> Epos M16i-> Monitor audio Rx6 -> Monitor Audio BX6-> KEF IQ90(KEF is slated for new launch in September) ->Dali Ikon 6

its ordered out of my preference after several hours and torturing many of the dealers.

Quad and Dynaudio havent auditioned yet basing them on the reviews

If its bookshleves

ProAc-> ATC->TotemRainmaker -> Dynaaudio Contour -> Ushers Be X718

Splendor if you can get.

Anyday I would vote for Dynaaudio Contour and Excite series. While Ushers sound nice, they dont have axis separation as clear as some of the other brands

On Amplifiers, Since you already have Yamaha I suggest you opt for this combination

For pre amps ->
idecco -> Yamaha-> Receiver.
Parasound Pre amp -> Norge 2000 concert series or Emotiva U2
or
iDecco or Wadia Power Dac mini -> Nuforce mono blocks or Parasound power amps -> Emotiva u series two channel power amp.

Please remember these items have putout are comptabile with 230 voltage source.

To this if you can also add Oppo 83 Special edition and I am hoping sometime in the future they will start supporting FLAC files.

In that case you can directly pass on the analog outputs to Power amp

If you tube like sound with solid state devices. Shell out on Redwine Audio -> Expensive

Thanks
Venkat

 

[afj]

like i said i doubt you'll get any joy out of your current speakers and amp for music. maybe you should look at selling it and then getting a good pair of fronts and a nice amp. the marantz is good for music and movies. but please :sad: dont have a yamaha and 602's in your system when you've got a budget like yours

 

[nshankar]

Hi Doors,

I'm no guru but just sharing my thoughts :-

Get new speakers suitable for your room size. Auditioning them prior to purchase helps.

The speakers will dictate what amp you will need to drive them.

Pre-Pro + Amp combination rocks. Due to budget reasons, if you do go for integrated amp, make sure it can be connected to a pre-pro later.

 

[afj]

imo the price you pay extra for separates over an integrated doesnt justify the increase in sq

 

[thevortex]

I will probably never understand this common tendency among us to have an audio system placed in the hall - where there probably are multiple doors and/or exits.

For music, it is much, much more better to simply have the system in one discrete room - even if it is smaller. All the better to control bass/treble and tune the sound to the room. With a big hall cum dining, the problems may be too many. And ultimately, the return for investment may not be there. No matter what speakers and amps one invests on.

Just my 2 rupees

 

[afj]

I will probably never understand this common tendency among us to have an audio system placed in the hall - where there probably are multiple doors and/or exits.

For music, it is much, much more better to simply have the system in one discrete room - even if it is smaller. All the better to control bass/treble and tune the sound to the room. With a big hall cum dining, the problems may be too many. And ultimately, the return for investment may not be there. No matter what speakers and amps one invests on.

Just my 2 rupees

the reason i do this is because thats the place where i relax and spend time with family and friends and its always nice to have music around at that time. but i also understand that some people want to be alone when listening to music and be more involved in it

 

[thevortex]

the reason i do this is because thats the place where i relax and spend time with family and friends and its always nice to have music around at that time. but i also understand that some people want to be alone when listening to music and be more involved in it

I do understand the thinking.

But in such a an environment, it becomes more of a lounge kind of system rather than a dedicated audio one where you want to hear the last detail in all its glory.

I do appreciate that not all of us are behind that last detail. No issues.

It is just that once you have your system in a dedicated room, you can do a lot more with it. You can get more out of your environment.

 

[afj]

I do understand the thinking.

But in such a an environment, it becomes more of a lounge kind of system rather than a dedicated audio one where you want to hear the last detail in all its glory.

I do appreciate that not all of us are behind that last detail. No issues.

It is just that once you have your system in a dedicated room, you can do a lot more with it. You can get more out of your environment.

i do sometimes just listen to music on my own where everyone is in bed. but yes the room isnt exactly arranged in a way that would enhance sq

 

[doors666]

this is becoming too confusing for me... so I am going to take a very simple approach... first I am going to buy speakers and then go for the amp upgrade... so the entire budget is now for the speakers, around 1-1.5 lacs... I will listen to it for sometime with my 663, anyway, as everyone suggests, upgrade one component at a time. once i have more money I will upgrade the amp too..

please suggest some good speakers in this budget that i can audition.. i would prefer to buy speakers that have a relatively higher sensitivity, as that would help in keeping the cost of amp upgrade low..

 

[prash2k01]

It will not make sense if you audition speakers with 663 as you said that you will upgrade the amp in near future..................IMO plz audition the spkrs in keeping in mind the future amp.

 

[afj]

this is becoming too confusing for me... so I am going to take a very simple approach... first I am going to buy speakers and then go for the amp upgrade... so the entire budget is now for the speakers, around 1-1.5 lacs... I will listen to it for sometime with my 663, anyway, as everyone suggests, upgrade one component at a time. once i have more money I will upgrade the amp too..

please suggest some good speakers in this budget that i can audition.. i would prefer to buy speakers that have a relatively higher sensitivity, as that would help in keeping the cost of amp upgrade low..

what sort of music do you listen to. do you like your system to be bright / neutral / warm. whats your room size

 

[iaudio]

Since you can control the volume on your PC with ST, you can spend your money just for the power amp. Hook it up straight to the sound card and then power amp to the front speakers. But ofcourse, convenience will suffer if you want multiple inputs.

 

[cmsajith]

this is becoming too confusing for me... so I am going to take a very simple approach... first I am going to buy speakers and then go for the amp upgrade... so the entire budget is now for the speakers, around 1-1.5 lacs... I will listen to it for sometime with my 663, anyway, as everyone suggests, upgrade one component at a time. once i have more money I will upgrade the amp too..

please suggest some good speakers in this budget that i can audition.. i would prefer to buy speakers that have a relatively higher sensitivity, as that would help in keeping the cost of amp upgrade low..

This is what i have done:
I had started with Onkyo606 and space India towers (LCR,SL,SR). Later for the music I upgraded my L/R with Quad 22L2 (for both movies and music) and Beresford Caiman w/ Pre (will go for a dedicated pre later) and Quad 909 power amp for music. Now, to upgrade the SQ for both movies and music, I am planning for Emotiva UMC-1. So I will be using the same speakers/preamp/poweramp for both movies and music.

 

[doors666]

Hey Guys,

I have identified the following speakers so far that could meet my needs and fall in my price range. Currently I am looking for speakers in 1-2L price category, though i would prefer to keep it below 1.5L, could go higher for killer speakers.

I have also removed restriction on bookshelves only and will atleast audition floorstanders also.

I will purchase the amp after I have purchased the speakers.

For some of these, I dont know where to audition or what's the current price. Please let me know if you have this info. Please also do let me know if I have missed on some good speakers. I also dont know if these are going to be good for the genres I listen to.

B&W 805S (1.9L) - only if I manage to get it from US.
Other candidates were cm7, cm9, xt4, 703, 704 etc, all have inflated pricing:sad:

Maggies 1.6/1.7 Price? Dealer?
Revel M22 1.25L. Dealer?
Vienna Acoustic Haydn Grand 86k. Prices of other relevant models. How do these do with non western classical music.

ProAc - 1SC (1.25L)
ProAc - D1 (1.47L)
ProAc D2,D18,130,140 (prices??)

Spendor SA1 (1.2L), A5, A6 (prices? is there a dealer in bangalore?)

ATC SCM 11 (1.2L), SCM19 (1.9L) prices include taxes.

Dynaudio Contour S 1.4 is 2L
Focus 110 (1.2L), 140 (1.6L) 220 (Price?) Any other model from dynaudio, dont want the audience or excite.

Usher BE718 - 1.1L, DMD718 1.3L
EP CS3 - 2L
Mini Dancer 1 - 1.75L

Gamut Dana 1L
Linn Magik 109, 140 Prices?
Thiel CS1.6 Price?
Sonus Faber Liuto FS - Price?

Cadence has some 4-5 models in this range. will check out all.

Anything from lyrita or rethm in this range?

Anything else I am missing. Damn!! bucketful of speakers to audition. this is going to be a fantastic journey, and then the amp will start.:yahoo: