USB-SPDIF converters thread

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thad, I started reading your post and all was well. But later I didn't realize when did I lose you

Following may sound somewhat (or quite a bit) disconnected. But might help some readers. So, here goes.

All devices need device drivers on all Operating Systems; Windows, Mac, Linux included. The reason why some devices don't seem to need drivers is that - the OS already comes with suitable drivers. ...

Deja vu. I have a feeling that we may have had this exact conversation before, in which case... apologies.

However, I still don't think that I am entirely wrong in this context, because there is this thing in USB audio called class compliance. Yes, technically, you would be right to tell me that even this is a device driver (I think?) but this is where we hit generic/non-generic: If a USB audio device is class compliant then it requires no specific driver to be supplied by the vendor. Yes, there are drivers, but vendors are working to those drivers, rather than making drivers that work to their units.

I think I know what I'm on about here, but I could be getting something wrong or not expressing it right...

 

[ranjeetrain]

Thad, I think we all understand the subject intrinsically, but can't express the right way all the time. I surely am not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong, most certainly not. We all are in a discussion and one person may end up saying something better than another one


Continuing with the topic: I've always had this confusion (curiosity more like), why are USB-SPDIF converters so expensive!


Question: how many dollars does it take to build a good USB-SPDIF converter?

A stab at an answer: I would like to make a rough BoM.

Two connectors, gold plated high spec copper made - 10 dollars each (suppose manufacturing ten thousand pieces each at one go)?

Some cable high spec copper core, high spec copper braid shieldes - 5 USD/meter? (Suppose you build 10k meters at one go)

USB reciever chip - No idea. May be USD 5 apiece? USD 10? 15?

Memory buffer? USD 1 apiece? (They are cheap, aren't they?)

Clock - Now here things get tricky. There are cheap clocks, and there are expensive clocks. (Sounds like a nursery rhyme).

Galvanic isolation device - USD 5 apiece? USD 10 apiece?

Now I have a layman's BoM ready. Everything is well under (and I mean way way under USD 100). I got a shock to learn the prices when I was first in the market for a USB-SPDIF converter. I thought I was going to shell out like, say USD 30-40 for one. Was I mistaken!!! :indifferent14:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

There are cheap clocks, and there are expensive clocks. (Sounds like a nursery rhyme).

Hickery Dickery Dock,
The Mouse Ran Up The Clock,
The Clock Struck One ...but there was too much jitter and the mouse couldn't hear it properly so he ran away.​

I don't know nearly enough about the two protocols to know what might be involved in converting one to the other. Probably Google would tell us, but I have to go to bed early tonight for a 10.00am concert tomorrow...

I wonder if there are any non-hif eg pro-audio converters? That's one way to see of there is a hifi-label premium being applied. But one thing I can think of is that this is a small-market device: no-one is going to sell hundreds of thousands [???] and that puts the production price up.

 

[reignofchaos]

Thad, I think we all understand the subject intrinsically, but can't express the right way all the time. I surely am not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong, most certainly not. We all are in a discussion and one person may end up saying something better than another one


Continuing with the topic: I've always had this confusion (curiosity more like), why are USB-SPDIF converters so expensive!


Question: how many dollars does it take to build a good USB-SPDIF converter?

A stab at an answer: I would like to make a rough BoM.

Two connectors, gold plated high spec copper made - 10 dollars each (suppose manufacturing ten thousand pieces each at one go)?

Some cable high spec copper core, high spec copper braid shieldes - 5 USD/meter? (Suppose you build 10k meters at one go)

USB reciever chip - No idea. May be USD 5 apiece? USD 10? 15?

Memory buffer? USD 1 apiece? (They are cheap, aren't they?)

Clock - Now here things get tricky. There are cheap clocks, and there are expensive clocks. (Sounds like a nursery rhyme).

Galvanic isolation device - USD 5 apiece? USD 10 apiece?

Now I have a layman's BoM ready. Everything is well under (and I mean way way under USD 100). I got a shock to learn the prices when I was first in the market for a USB-SPDIF converter. I thought I was going to shell out like, say USD 30-40 for one. Was I mistaken!!! :indifferent14:

Look at it the positive way - you do get the m2tech hiface for around the same price.:lol:

As for the more expensive ones, most of them other than a few are snake oil. The ones that do matter are the ones that go the extra mile to have an isolated power supply for the spdif side.

 

[varma_vikas]

Hello varma_vikas,

What kind of a friend are you to give me the good news well after I have already bought my first M2Tech and on the way to acquire the second one

hello ranjeetrain,
did not notice that u r looking for second .
Anyway best of luck for the new.

 

[panditji]

Hello varma_vikas,

What kind of a friend are you to give me the good news well after I have already bought my first M2Tech and on the way to acquire the second one

Going to collect my Meridian Director DAC today...would be fun to compare it with the M2Tech Young and compare as it was on my list of DACs to buy...

 

[Santy]

Why I an saying this because he told me that he loves clean sound and soundstage he gets out of M2Tech products and wants to make indian market aware of it better. So he wanted to distribute them.

He may have got the products I believe. He told me about his wish to represent M2Tech approx 6 months back.

Any further info/ contact details? I am looking for the entry level hiface two for myself. Its time for some tweaks for me and I am becoming restless.

 

[ranjeetrain]

I wonder if there are any non-hif eg pro-audio converters? That's one way to see of there is a hifi-label premium being applied. But one thing I can think of is that this is a small-market device: no-one is going to sell hundreds of thousands [???] and that puts the production price up.

Equipment from Pro-world do offer better price-performance ratio. However, only the best pro-equipment are suitable for the kind of application we are talking about.

Look at it the positive way - you do get the m2tech hiface for around the same price.:lol:

As for the more expensive ones, most of them other than a few are snake oil. The ones that do matter are the ones that go the extra mile to have an isolated power supply for the spdif side.

LOL, totally agree. M2Tech HiFace is one heck of a deal for what it sells now (USD 99). I wonder what's the margin D/D are getting out of it selling it for that kinda prices.

I do feel some of them might be snake-oil, in the sense, that if they are trying to make an impression of a certain performance level based on the price tag, then well.... yes.

Going to collect my Meridian Director DAC today...would be fun to compare it with the M2Tech Young and compare as it was on my list of DACs to buy...

Rahul, I can kind of predict the outcome but I'd rather wait to hear from you.

BTW, Did you get your DAC to produce sound for you? If not, I have a number of digital ICs lying around. You can borrow any to use in the meantime, if you wish.

 

[Santy]

M2Tech HiFace is one heck of a deal for what it sells now (USD 99).

Just saw Hiface is $99
But I was actually looking at the newer version which is $229
Is the difference worth the additional cost?
Which one do you guys advice.


Also best site to buy from?
Musicdirect says shipping to US only and Amazon price is $165. Hiface site does not have older version.

 

[reignofchaos]

The old one uses their custom chip. The new one is based on xmos and doesn't require custom drivers. In terms of performance, the new one might be slightly better, but not 130$ extra better

 

[Santy]

Thanks. Will there be any difficulty in pairing Hiface with DACs that require their own drivers?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Just saw Hiface is $99
But I was actually looking at the newer version which is $229
Is the difference worth the additional cost?
Which one do you guys advice.


Also best site to buy from?
Musicdirect says shipping to US only and Amazon price is $165. Hiface site does not have older version.

The old one uses their custom chip. The new one is based on xmos and doesn't require custom drivers. In terms of performance, the new one might be slightly better, but not 130$ extra better

When they were selling at their MRP, the difference was worth paying for (this is general consensus, not speaking from personal experience).

But since the old version is available for a heavy discount now, agree with reignofchaos, it's may not be better for additional $130. Buying even from Amazon for $165 it is still a very good deal IMO. So, pull the trigger if you are looking.

BTW, I am gonna receive my Evo soon. If the upgrade augurs well, the HiFace Two will be on it's way out.


Edit:

"Thanks. Will there be any difficulty in pairing Hiface with DACs that require their own drivers? "

I think not. Why? Because the DAC will need drivers for USB connectivity (this is my assumption). If that's true, the DAC doesn't have to be cosnected to the computer at all, because you will use it as a stand-alone DAC, using it's SPDIF input. So, drivers don't come into play.

 

[Santy]

That Amazon listing was an used item.
I will buy from musicdirect only through some shipping service.

I think not. Why? Because the DAC will need drivers for USB connectivity (this is my assumption). If that's true, the DAC doesn't have to be cosnected to the computer at all, because you will use it as a stand-alone DAC, using it's SPDIF input. So, drivers don't come into play.

Damn... Didn't occur to me when I asked.

 

[ranjeetrain]

That Amazon listing was an used item.
I will buy from musicdirect only through some shipping service.

Damn... Didn't occur to me when I asked.

iShip intl should deliver at your doorstep for under $165 new.

Just make sure to tell them to buy the RCA version. It comes in two version (RCA and BNC). Make sure they don't mess it. Unless your DAC has both RCA and BNC.

 

[manniraj]

Some of the items the musicdirect.com site does ship international. This will be listed on the item description itself. I think this way you might be lucky as the DAC looks like a USB pendrive and the customs guys can skip it . I have purchased from musicdirect but shipped to US address and not to India though.

 

[panditji]

Rahul, I can kind of predict the outcome but I'd rather wait to hear from you.

BTW, Did you get your DAC to produce sound for you? If not, I have a number of digital ICs lying around. You can borrow any to use in the meantime, if you wish.

Hi Ranjeet, I am more interested in listening to the quantum of difference between the DACs as I am sure the M2Tech is better...

I still need a digital coaxial cable to connect the DAC and bypass the CDP's DAC...I am currently using an RCA interconnect with the convertor pin on one end...Do you have a digital coaxial I can use?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hi Ranjeet, I am more interested in listening to the quantum of difference between the DACs as I am sure the M2Tech is better...

I still need a digital coaxial cable to connect the DAC and bypass the CDP's DAC...I am currently using an RCA interconnect with the convertor pin on one end...Do you have a digital coaxial I can use?

Hi Rahul, the SQ difference between different DACs can be ear-opener. It's good that you are going to experience it yourself.

I have a number of ICs ranging from entry-level to mid-level. Everything packed in boxes though (the stuff I am not using is generally packed and stored in boxes). I'll take them out and see if any of them is like what you need.

 

[ranjeetrain]

M2Tech Evo USB-SPDIF converter is here

Gents, the M2Tech Evo is here.

Will put it through it's paces and post the impressions later.

[IMG2]http://images45.fotki.com/v148/photos/3/3269643/12997447/20140630_133707-vi.jpg[/IMG2]
[IMG2]http://images15.fotki.com/v1626/photos/3/3269643/12997447/20140630_134148-vi.jpg[/IMG2]

 

[panditji]

Thanks Ranjeet...however I just ordered a Blue Jeans Digital Coaxial with Santy from the forum.....Will try and compare with the M2Tech Evo when I get the cable....

Hi Rahul, the SQ difference between different DACs can be ear-opener. It's good that you are going to experience it yourself.

I have a number of ICs ranging from entry-level to mid-level. Everything packed in boxes though (the stuff I am not using is generally packed and stored in boxes). I'll take them out and see if any of them is like what you need.

 

[Santy]

I just ordered a Blue Jeans Digital Coaxial with Santy from the forum.....

That sounds like I am a dealer for BJC in India. :lol:
Just to clarify, I wanted one for myself as I was planning to go SPDIF from USB for PC. We clubbed the order to save on shipping.