USB-SPDIF converters thread

[sidvee]

Please do not buy an m2tech evo. Severe issues with drivers on platforms other win 7.

Not sure becoz all I have used is windows 7 and it works perfectly. Honestly sound out of my music Pc, via the m2tech evo trio, is the best source I have heard in my system. Of course my source is limited to the inr 50k windows 7 based pc, usd $1500 m2tech trio and my ayon skylla II dac, so obviously there are better sources out there - mine is perhaps just mid or lo-fi at best. Secondly as I stated earlier, I did a comparison to the Berkley audio design alpha, and honestly for the $300 xtra cost of the BADA, not really much difference.
However I am just a computer/audio novice - like I have stated in other threads - there are so many other options and experts - this is just my humble hearing - perhaps not worthy of all the advanced experience of hi-fi audio of the computer wizs out there, so kindly disregard what I have stated. I also used this as a guideline when I chose my current setup FWIW.
15 USB/SPDIF converters shootout
Probably just ramblings of another computer illiterate like me and who knows what compulsions have misguided him - however he did have access to all these converters and did hear them (IMO the most important point rather than conclusions based on armchair searches and gut feelings) on what I would simply state as a "state of the art system" (one that I can only dream of owning in another life:lol. Anyways, I stand corrected, I do not know what is out there, my proclamations are just amateur obervations at best - so kindly treat them as fillers for the thread. To the OP, my previous posts were just my observations - good luck with the search - hope you find the best suited usb-spdif converter for your needs - I believe you are on the right track.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Santy]

Santy, that's a lousy comparison.

You forgot that they are two totally different devices.

 

[reignofchaos]

I do not wish to put down the m2tech converter at all. It is fantastic when it works. However there are lots of reports of issues with macs and Linux. If the only is to be used is windows 7, there will be no problems.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

You forgot that they are two totally different devices.

That was the basis for my comment. 32-channel AES I/O against a USB/SPDIF convertor. Of course you knew that hyeah: :lol:

 

[sidvee]

I do not wish to put down the m2tech converter at all. It is fantastic when it works. However there are lots of reports of issues with macs and Linux. If the only is to be used is windows 7, there will be no problems.

@ROC, please note, my previous post was not directed at you at all, though it may seem that way - I just quoted you, apologies for that.
And I really mean what I said (I was not being sarcastic) in that I simply do not have the experience that many of our computer audio savvy FM's have, including you - I just refer to the SQ part. So yes however good the evo sounds, if it is not compatible with other OS's then definitely one has to keep that in mind. However I know another FM who used his Hi-face one extensively with his Mac mini without any issues.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[jai1611]

M2Tech have had problems in getting their driver up and running with Mac Maverick OS. Older versions of Mac were fine.

The delay got bad enough that Metrum, who were using the M2Tech OEM solution, had to drop them. See here: Metrum Acoustics drop M2Tech OEM, announce new USB module | Digital Audio Review by John Darko

Apparently the current gen Hiface uses a XMos chip instead of M2Techs own, hence has better compatibility than the Evo. M2Tech even has a notice up flagging lack of compatibility with the new Mac OS for the Evo on their website here: http://www.m2tech.biz/evo.html

 

[ranjeetrain]

Not sure becoz all I have used is windows 7 and it works perfectly. Honestly sound out of my music Pc, via the m2tech evo trio, is the best source I have heard in my system. Of course my source is limited to the inr 50k windows 7 based pc, usd $1500 m2tech trio and my ayon skylla II dac, so obviously there are better sources out there - mine is perhaps just mid or lo-fi at best. Secondly as I stated earlier, I did a comparison to the Berkley audio design alpha, and honestly for the $300 xtra cost of the BADA, not really much difference.
However I am just a computer/audio novice - like I have stated in other threads - there are so many other options and experts - this is just my humble hearing - perhaps not worthy of all the advanced experience of hi-fi audio of the computer wizs out there, so kindly disregard what I have stated. I also used this as a guideline when I chose my current setup FWIW.
15 USB/SPDIF converters shootout
Probably just ramblings of another computer illiterate like me and who knows what compulsions have misguided him - however he did have access to all these converters and did hear them (IMO the most important point rather than conclusions based on armchair searches and gut feelings) on what I would simply state as a "state of the art system" (one that I can only dream of owning in another life:lol. Anyways, I stand corrected, I do not know what is out there, my proclamations are just amateur obervations at best - so kindly treat them as fillers for the thread. To the OP, my previous posts were just my observations - good luck with the search - hope you find the best suited usb-spdif converter for your needs - I believe you are on the right track.
Cheers,
Sid

Sid, funny you mention that thread on Computer Audiophile. I had read that too. And was quite surprised to see M2Tech being spoken about in such a high manner.

All reviews on the Net are subject to personal taste. Once you discount that, it is really valuable that someone spent so much time, money and effort on doing such a comprehensive shootout. Such a shootout can definitely be taken as a basis of a fair assessment (minus personal taste).

You don't need to defend your assessment of M2Tech. It doesn't conflict with any including mine.

 

[ranjeetrain]

I do not wish to put down the m2tech converter at all. It is fantastic when it works. However there are lots of reports of issues with macs and Linux. If the only is to be used is windows 7, there will be no problems.

M2Tech have had problems in getting their driver up and running with Mac Maverick OS. Older versions of Mac were fine.

The delay got bad enough that Metrum, who were using the M2Tech OEM solution, had to drop them. See here: Metrum Acoustics drop M2Tech OEM, announce new USB module | Digital Audio Review by John Darko

Apparently the current gen Hiface uses a XMos chip instead of M2Techs own, hence has better compatibility than the Evo. M2Tech even has a notice up flagging lack of compatibility with the new Mac OS for the Evo on their website here: http://www.m2tech.biz/evo.html

It is well known that M2Techs need proprietary drivers, since they are based on proprietary design. M2Tech itself has been quite candid about it.

Linux is an area which is tricky for most manufacturers. Unless a device is USB class compliant, care always needs to be taken to ensure compatibility. No manufacturer wants/claims to support Linux because there are simply way too many distros. It's more of a community OS and device compatibility also depends quite a lot on community support.

Mac driver was broken only with the latest release when Apple made some low level changes. It will take manufacturers to update their proprietary drivers.

If I speak for myself, I am using my own heavily modded Windows. So personally for me it's a non-issue. At least not significant enough to strike out a very high performance component out of the short list.

Let's keep an eye on M2Tech, how do they respond to their broken drivers. They have made quite a splash due to the price-performance ratio of their products, and they wouldn't want to squander it just like that.

 

[jai1611]

Linux is an area which is tricky for most manufacturers. Unless a device is USB class compliant, care always needs to be taken to ensure compatibility. No manufacturer wants/claims to support Linux because there are simply way too many distros. It's more of a community OS and device compatibility also depends quite a lot on community support.

Mac driver was broken only with the latest release when Apple made some low level changes. It will take manufacturers to update their proprietary drivers.

The Linux support is a common issue for a range of devices and doesnt matter to a large portion of potential consumer.

The fact that M2Tech still doesnt have a driver for the latest Mac version more than six months after its release is, to me, a concern. Even their Windows driver is three years old and compatibility with Win8 is patchy. Given that now there are a lot of options at the US$500-1000 price point, there are now options to consider along with the Evo for a new buyer - particularly someone who wants to try something other than Win7 at some point.

The cheaper / better value Hiface doesnt have compatibility issues and is a much easier buy

 

[sidvee]

http://www.m2tech.biz/it/mavericks_install.html
Here is the mavericks os compatible driver for hiface 1 based products including the evo. I was going through their thread in computer audiophile where I stumbled onto this. It appears there was delay, and to m2tech's credit they admitted the problem, though a lot of the owners were frustrated. I did glance on this discussion a few months ago, but since it was of no interest to me, I didn't pay any attention.
Also I am sure they will have something for win 8 users soon as well.
Secondly to the OP, I stand corrected, the Evo and clock are current production, only the PSU has been discontinued.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[ranjeetrain]

Secondly to the OP, I stand corrected, the Evo and clock are current production, only the PSU has been discontinued.

I knew it all along. Just didn't feel like it was too important to point out that the models are still current.

One can buy'em here: M2TECH

 

[sidvee]

I knew it all along. Just didn't feel like it was too important to point out that the models are still current.

One can buy'em here: M2TECH

Sounds good Ranjeet, I guess another piece of erroneous info on the Evo (like its os compatibility)
I am planning to try out a linear psu for my evo & clock in the form of a Teddy Pardo power supply soon. Been in touch with him, hope to do it soon.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[jai1611]

http://www.m2tech.biz/it/mavericks_install.html
Here is the mavericks os compatible driver for hiface 1 based products including the evo.

Thanks Sid. Surprising that their own page on the Evo still has the notice up about not being compatible with OS Maverick.

A May 2014 driver update for a Oct 2013 OS release is a bit tardy, but still ok given that these guys are not a tech / pro audio company.

 

[sidvee]

Thanks Sid. Surprising that their own page on the Evo still has the notice up about not being compatible with OS Maverick.

A May 2014 driver update for a Oct 2013 OS release is a bit tardy, but still ok given that these guys are not a tech / pro audio company.

I guess the SQ makes up for it:lol:.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[gobble]

It is well known that M2Techs need proprietary drivers, since they are based on proprietary design. M2Tech itself has been quite candid about it.

Linux is an area which is tricky for most manufacturers. Unless a device is USB class compliant, care always needs to be taken to ensure compatibility. No manufacturer wants/claims to support Linux because there are simply way too many distros. It's more of a community OS and device compatibility also depends quite a lot on community support.

Mac driver was broken only with the latest release when Apple made some low level changes. It will take manufacturers to update their proprietary drivers.

If I speak for myself, I am using my own heavily modded Windows. So personally for me it's a non-issue. At least not significant enough to strike out a very high performance component out of the short list.

Let's keep an eye on M2Tech, how do they respond to their broken drivers. They have made quite a splash due to the price-performance ratio of their products, and they wouldn't want to squander it just like that.

M2Tech open sourced their drivers more than a year back. It is now the snd-usb-async driver found in any Linux release. It should have been no more than a few weeks for Mac/BSD to follow. Not sure but looks like you have been browsing outdated web pages it looks like.

I've been using the Ciunas USB spdif convertor since last year, and it (and most devices) utilizes the same drivers for plug and play compatibility. Thanks to this driver using a USB/spdif convertor is a breeze for any brand today.

There was a Linux kernel regression bug last year that caused stuttering and it took a while to fix that. Not M2Tech's fault.

G0bble

 

[ranjeetrain]

Sounds good Ranjeet, I guess another piece of erroneous info on the Evo (like its os compatibility)
I am planning to try out a linear psu for my evo & clock in the form of a Teddy Pardo power supply soon. Been in touch with him, hope to do it soon.
Cheers,
Sid

Sid, AFAIK Teddy Pardo is a kick ass PSU. It's specially a big hit with east Asian consumers (apparently due to it's high price-performance ratio?). Will look forward to your impressions.

M2Tech open sourced their drivers more than a year back. It is now the snd-usb-async driver found in any Linux release. It should have been no more than a few weeks for Mac/BSD to follow. Not sure but looks like you have been browsing outdated web pages it looks like.

I've been using the Ciunas USB spdif convertor since last year, and it (and most devices) utilizes the same drivers for plug and play compatibility. Thanks to this driver using a USB/spdif convertor is a breeze for any brand today.

There was a Linux kernel regression bug last year that caused stuttering and it took a while to fix that. Not M2Tech's fault.

G0bble

I'm not sure if we are mixing things or did you mean to say something different from what you have written. Open/Closed source is different from Generic/properietary. Making the source open makes no difference if the driver is still proprietary (unless the community overtakes its development).

As to my knowledge of the matter, since I don't own the unit my only source of knowledge is what's available online. And it is quite possible that I am reading outdated pages.

I guess you were trying to say M2Tech made it's drivers open source + generic. If that's the case, the whole discussion here turns on it's head. Then the issue with drivers doesn't remain an M2Tech issue at all. But not sure if that's what you meant.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

First, admitting that this is a bit of a shot in the dark , but...

If a company needs drivers for its DAC, card or interface, then they are going to be proprietary, whether the source is open or not. What I mean is that the device does something in a way which only works with those specific drivers. A functionally/visually obvious example of this is routing, mixing, etc, on a sound card. Although it is sometimes vaguely possible that some basic i/o operation might work without the drivers, all the other functionality will not, and it will be crippled, and probably fairly worthless on an unsupported platform. There is no way that this hardware/software dependence can be made generic --- without loosing the identity of the product.

If a company is willing to release source code, then there can be a community effort to port and support that code on another platform. Sometimes, of course, if a product is popular enough, or if one person's love for it is enough, it can be done by a genius studying raw data dumps and finding out how the thing works. Support may be then more-or-less depending on how far they get.

IIRC, the drivers for my beloved but now defunct RME PCI card came direct from RME. RME now use proprietary data handling techniques in their USB technology, of which they are very proud, and which they have no intention (as of when I last read about it a year or three back) of giving away to anyone. Open source means open to the competitors too. I don't think they have any intention of developing for Linux at this time, butI think that some of their current equipment offers a class-compliant mode. Reduced functionality/performance/etc.

On the other hand, the drivers for Echo Audiofire (firewire) device are, I think, community written (FFADO) but with support from Echo. Nothing generic about that: you have to use the right driver for the right device and if there isn't one, forget it.

Treading the path back to USB devices...

Even the "generic" class-compliant is limited with different OSs. Or more specifically, only supports limited sample rates in Windows (is that still true with W-8?) so ...drivers.

"Audiophile" USB devices... As far as I know there is no definitive list of class-compliant devices. Some manufacturers are kind enough to state that their device works with Linux, others keep us guessing, or might respond to personal enquiries. Burson told me, Conductor, SPDIF yes, but USB no. I think they changed their USB interface since then, but my focus of interest moved away anyway. I believe that Lynx are not interested in supporting, or aiding the support of, Linux USB :sad:. otherwise the Hilo would be a dream box. Who knows what the future might bring! (like enough cash to buy one hyeah: ). IIRC (again ), ifi say they do support Linux. Must be class-compliant.

And it isn't all Windows-centricity either: Apogee only supports MAC!

Much of this might be way off-topic to SPDIF converters, but the common ground is that have a USB side.

 

[varma_vikas]

Hello Ranjeetrain,

Good to read about M2Tech. The only person in Delhi I heard it from was Sid Trehan some years back. He is the man behind the company Sound By Design based in Gurgaon. Seems he bought EVO (do not know DAC or converter) loong back and has it in his rig since then.

Why I an saying this because he told me that he loves clean sound and soundstage he gets out of M2Tech products and wants to make indian market aware of it better. So he wanted to distribute them.

He may have got the products I believe. He told me about his wish to represent M2Tech approx 6 months back.

Will be good to see some M2 Tech products here.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Thad, I started reading your post and all was well. But later I didn't realize when did I lose you

Following may sound somewhat (or quite a bit) disconnected. But might help some readers. So, here goes.

All devices need device drivers on all Operating Systems; Windows, Mac, Linux included. The reason why some devices don't seem to need drivers is that - the OS already comes with suitable drivers.

An OS based on a monolithic architecture comes with all the drivers for all devices it needs to work with built within it. Think of a cellphone, a tablet, an ECG machine, a robot to do simple housework. All these are examples of devices which work on an OS with a monolithic architecture. In case of these devices, there may never seems to be the need of a device driver, because the OS kernel has everything it needs.

General purpose computing OSes, the ones that runs our computing devices, has a multi-layered architecture. Kernel speaks to different devices it has to, by the means of specific drivers. A device is called "Plug-n-play" if it doesn't need any driver other than standard drivers it's target OS comes pre-installed with. Please note the use of phrase "any driver others than".

But not all devices are designed to work with these generic drivers an OS provides. It is in such a case when you need specific drivers written specifically for a device. This is when you call the driver proprietary.

Please note, in the above discussion open/close source never comes into picture. Open/close source merely tells who develops the code. The code is called closed-source if it's within the confines of it's company. If it's released to a community, it's called open-source.

So, if you see, open/closed source and generic/proprietary driver are two entirely different things. Open/closed relates to source, generic/proprietary relates to driver.


Back in the time, when I used to be a desktop computer user, I never used a device that didn't need drivers. Those were the pre-PnP days. Fortunately, Plug-n-play came along and brought along with it respite from collecting driver CDs. Old timers can easily relate with me if I say, collecting driver CDs used to be a favorite thing among computer power users 10-15 years ago. I remember buying magazines just because it had a collection of drivers in it. You always wanted the latest and greatest drivers for your devices.

Fortunately, we live in a Plug-n-Play era. Driver woes are far from over though. For this wait to be over, we might have to wait till next generation computers come to the market. The ones that will be able to inquire and obtain entire circuit diagram of a connected device and compile a suitable driver for it automatically.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hello varma_vikas,

What kind of a friend are you to give me the good news well after I have already bought my first M2Tech and on the way to acquire the second one