What do i need?-Requirement Audio stereo music only

I though the Image line was still made in Canada? Did they move that as well?

I guess for the most manufacturers, China has been the favourite destination esp. since there has been a lot of mergers in the audio industry especially. I know Klipsch bought out API which manufactures the Athena, Mirage and Energy brands and at the time left out the Paradigm and PSB brands

@marsilians

sir
you were right uptill about a half year ago but....
even their synchrony towers costing 4000$ are now shifted to china
Alpha,Image and synchrony are now made in china ( last six months for sure)
This can be confirmed by googling or if that doesnt help priyesh at Lakozy will also tell you the same.
Its only due to this reason that PSB has managed to keep the prices the same compared to some other manufactures who have raised prices this year.(who have always been made in china -( budget speakers at least)
(PSB's costing was first calcualted via Canada now its ia china)
 
hello all
after the amplifiers and speakers im now looking for suggestions for a source.
BUDGET - UNDER 8K preferably (stretching 10k)

keeping my requirements in mind please do advice with make and model no.

looking forward to your help as always

Ali

Sigh! When I started out I too thought I could get away with purchasing a player under 10K.

The closest all round player I considered ( but never auditioned) was the Oppo 980H.

Finally settled for a dedicated CDP Marantz CD6002 at 18K.

For 10K you may want to look for a 2nd hand CDP. You may be throwing the 35K investment in Amp/Speakerdown the drain if you settle for an ordinary player. Do you want to risk it?

Regards
 
1. Amp will most probably be a NAD 325BEE or a Marantz PM6002 and speakers are likely PSB image series
2. i have no AVR (and dont plan to ever have one)so i will be watching movies in stereo mode and connecting the "video out" directly to the TV
3. my TV is 32 inch and not a Full HD TV only HD ready

Magma, keeping in my mind the effort you taken in the recent past to audition and shortlist equipment, I feel you must buy a CDP, and an inexpensive DVD Player, or keep your existing Sony if you are not too unhappy with it.

Regarding CDPs, since you are going in for the NAD and PSB, please do audition the NAD CDPs. They will match well with your other equipment. I am aware that there is a lot of bias against the NAD CDPs in this forum, but the new models from NAD do beg an audition. I recently heard a NAD 515BEE with various amplifiers including, NAD, Yamaha (AVR), and Music Fidelity. It sounded excellent on all of them. Only the Yamaha was a little less focussed with drums, but this was purely because of the Yamaha AVR. When I switched back to NAD amp, the drums were very focussed and sharp.

Forget about the DAC and all that unless you are looking at extensive use of PC based material. If not, a simple CDP and a decent low priced AVR both costing a total of 20K will give you good service.

Cheers
 
Dear magma,

If you are buying a Nad c325bee / Marantz PM6002 and the PSB speakers, it is indeed true that you need a decent CD player.

Let me propose the following options for you to consider:

1. Just buy the amp and the speakers for the moment and use your DVDP as source. Then a few months down the road you buy a new decent CDP. There are a few decent options here. If you can get the Marantz 6002 at 18K (like gobble bought it), it would be really a good buy, in my opinion for the money. Otherwise, as Venkat has suggested Nad CDP, they are also good. I haven't heard the 515, but I have heard the 525 and the 542 and they are very good. Then there is CA (to start with the 340c). I have a combination of Nad amp and CA CDP, and they go very well together as well. Once you have the amp and the speakers, then take your time as you save money for the CDP and try all these combinations.

2. The other option is to buy used. I leave that to others for comment, but I will always have some doubt about buying an used CDP, because there are mechanical parts involved in the transport, and if this is okay in the used equipment.

3. I really do not know if you can get any new CDP under 10K. Members, please respond if any of you know of such a product and how is the report. I would doubt if you can find anything at 10K or under and that will do justice to your amp and speakers.

Best of wishes to you!
 
yikes! a new CDP!

i was hoping someone would advice the DAC since i already have a dvd player and a lot of my songs are mp3 (192kbps), but if i'll be better off with a CDP then ....
hmm ..will have to wait and save.

does the nad play mp3?

thanks
 
You would be well-served by a DAC; but considering your system, at a bare minimum look for a used Citypulse with a TCXO clock or something in that class.

Most 'miracle budget' DACs (there seems to be a new favourite every month on various groups) are honestly bunkum; I have been hard-pressed to find any difference as compared to my old INR ~5k Philips DVDP. So if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. There's a huge internet marketing machine out there.

Before the flames start, this is my honest opinion based on A-B comparisons.

So yes, DACs are the future especially if you have collection of music files; but it's better to look in the USD 500 range new (at least) and make a well-considered purchase.
 
yikes! a new CDP!

i was hoping someone would advice the DAC since i already have a dvd player and a lot of my songs are mp3 (192kbps), but if i'll be better off with a CDP then ....
hmm ..will have to wait and save.

does the nad play mp3?

thanks

Magma - no offense but over time when you want to sample your setup and extract the maximum, you will find that MP3 files or other compressed file formats are letting you down in all probability.

Lossless formats are what can give you an accurate picture of your equipment. I have been through the same rigamarole:). Most of my music was MP3 but nowadays I stock up on CD's like crazy!
 
Magma - no offense but over time when you want to sample your setup and extract the maximum, you will find that MP3 files or other compressed file formats are letting you down in all probability.

Lossless formats are what can give you an accurate picture of your equipment. I have been through the same rigamarole:). Most of my music was MP3 but nowadays I stock up on CD's like crazy!


the vortex
You are 100% correct.

its only that ive come to appreciate this difference (mp3 and redbook)only a year ago and its taking me a real long time ( money too) to get all my favorite tracks in lossless format.

hence i thought it would be nice if My CDP would play mp3 too.

Can you guys advice me on a good budget DVD player (5k)that will play decent 2channel audio too
persiflage mentioned a phillips?

i have decided to buy a CDP but that will be later.
For now i would like to get a new DVD player.

note my requiremnt in video is very modest.
My TV is 32 inch and HD ready only.I dont have an AVR (and dont plan on one) so i will be connecting the video out directly to the TV

i have read about
Pioneer DV 410 ( i dont think i need the 600 series)
Phillips 542k
phillips 3996

please do advice further with model nos

(P.S i am alos considering an Oppo 980H from the US but sometimes i feel i shouldnt spend so much on the dvd player if im gonna bu a CDP in the future anyway)
 
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Is an expensive high-end CD player really worth the money, considering that even cheap Philips DVD players costing < 3k INR have a 24bit D/A converter? Sure, other high-end players might have better S/N ratios, but considering that a CD is a digital music source unlike a tape deck or an LP player, there should be no source noise to begin with. The only thing I think that should affect the quality of sound reproduction should be the quality of the D/A converter and the sampling rate, and both metrics are the same in the Philips DVD player and in, for example, Oppo DV-980H and Primare DVD26 (specifications given below)!

Plus, the S/N ratio of a CD recording is about 90db, which matches the S/N ratio of the DAC of the average players (unless the noise introduced by the DAC is external noise) and is not significantly worse than 100/110db of high-end players (or is it?). According to the Nyquist criteria, we need at least 40KHz sampling rate to reproduce the analog source accurately. Considering that CDs are recorded with a sampling rate of 44.1KHz and even the basic payers given below are converting the digital source back into analog at way above this: 192KHz @24bits (oversampling to give a smoother response, I guess), this should be more than sufficient for accurate music reproduction.. at least on paper.

My hypothesis is that either the cheaper players are lying or being over-optimistic in their specifications; or that different players (including the high-end players) are coloring the source music in different ways, possibly because of the way they have implemented their circuitry and filtering or even as a deliberate feature. It is also interesting that Marantz CD5003 and Primare CD21 CD players are using pulse modulation and not oversampling in their DAC implementation, but all the high-end DVD players like Oppo DV-980H and Primare DVD26 are using the same oversampling DAC as found in Philips.

Back to the original question, is it really worth spending on an expensive CD player? I can understand spending good money on a good analog source system such as a Nakamichi tape deck or a good LP player, but a CD player?? Please note that I'm posting this only to expand my knowledge, and don't pretend to be an expert at anything. So, please don't take any offense on anything I have said as it is not meant to be so in the slightest bit. In fact, my undertanding may be wrong as well, which is why I am seeking the guidance and inputs of this forum.

A trickier question is that even if we accept that a good high-end CD player may be better than a Philips DVD player, is it significantly better enough to be worth so much more? What if the extra money was spent on a better speaker or amp for example (say, pre-power vs integrated or floorstander vs bookshelf)?

PHILIPS DVD PLAYER DVP3146 (Rs. 2549)
D/A converter : 24 bit, 192 kHz
Frequency response : 30-20000 Hz
Signal to noise ratio : 90
Distortion and Noise (1kHz) : 65 dB
Crosstalk (1kHz) : 70 dB
Dynamic Range (1kHz) : 80 dB
Sound System : Dolby Digital

Marantz CD5003
Single Disc CD Player
Format: 16-Bit Linear PCM, MP3, WMA,
Sampling Frequency: CD:44.1kHz, MP3/WMA:32,44.1,48kHz
Dynamic Range: 100dB
Frequency Response: 2Hz - 20kHz
THD: 0.002%
S/N Ratio: 110dB

Oppo DV-980H
General Specification
Frequency: 20Hz - 20kHz (1dB)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: >100dB
Total Harmonic Distortion: < 0.01%
24-bit, 192kHz high resolution audio D/A converters

Primare DVD26
Video Performance Features: 108 MHz 12 bit
Videodac: Pixelworks video processor
Audio Performance Features: 192 kHz / 24 bit Audio Dac
Audio Outputs: 1 RCA (L & R)
Downmixed
THD + Noise: 0,009 % at 1 kHz
Dynamic Range: 100 dB
Signal-to-noise Ratio: 100 dB
Channel Separation: 100 dB

Primare CD21
D/A Converter: 2 x PCM1738
Output Impedance: 100 Ohm
Frequency Response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz (+0 / 0.2 dB)
Signal-to-noise Ratio: 105 dB
Harmonic Distortion: < 0.01 % (20 Hz - 20 kHz)
 
Asilarun - no offense meant, but have you listened to music on the Philips DVD player and compared it with what you listen on one of the other CD players?

The sound quality is worlds' apart. And you dont need audiophile ears' to make the difference out, whatever those ears are:).

Look at the huge Signal to Noise ratio differences and also note the fact that you do not get to know what DAC is being used in the Philip while with some research you would find out all about the DACs used in the other players.

Even the playing drive in and of itself is of a different quality and for music all this matters.
 
Dear asliarun,

Like to offer my 2 cents!

Specs are not everything. Yes they indicate something, but not everything. Sometimes they may even hide things. This happens because (i) all relevant specs are not mentioned, only a few that are usually there traditionally, (ii) among the ones mentioned, there is no guarantee that they are all measured using the same definition and under the same ambient conditions, and (iii) even if all mentionable specs are put down (for example, same DAC chip being used in two dufferent CDPs), the implementation (that is, how that particular part is being used in the total set-up) is important. To give an example from football, using Christiano Ronaldo in the left wing of the Indian national team may not at all improve things for the Indian team, because Ronaldo may not get enough balls in the area he likes or his passes may not be read by Baichung or Chhetri (because they are not of the same standard or they have not played enough together).

There may be other reasons that I have missed in the above.

One can also bring in examples of a laptop costing a lakh or more and another one costing below 40 K while the basic specs like the processor, caching, memory, HDD, optical drives etc may all be the same on the two. Where is the difference then?

As vortex has already mentioned, in the case of the CDPs, the sound that comes out makes the difference. I urge you all having doubts on such issues to kindly go out and hear the sound and compare, preferably on the same setup of amp and the speakers. One does NOT need to be an expert (for example I myself am far from an expert in these things) to hear the difference.

Actually if you think a little harder, it becomes obvious that you always need a good source. Because your amp and speakers are fed with signal from the source and if your source is not good enough then good equipments down the line are all wasted. The only reasons magma may go for an amp and the speakers to start with are (i) it becomes quite expensive to buy all three at the same go for the most of us, and (ii) amp and speakers are two equipments that need the biggest synergy in the whole set up and preferably bought together. It is NOT because source is the least important thing.

I hope this helps and please go out listen to all the CDPs/DVDPs you have listed and I am sure you will get your answer, at least at a macro level (by that I mean it may not be possible to distinguish between a 70K and a 90K equipment, but distinction between a 5K player with a 25K player is very evident. Believe me, I have tested these things with my wife and a few others who were mildly trying to put across a point recently when I bought a decent CDP recently).
 
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oye
every1 forgot my query

need a budget dvd payer (5k)for now ( CDP will come later since as asit has guessed i cant afford all components together)

dvd player capable of decent audio though ,since it will be used till i buy a CDP
ive been adviced
phillips 3996
pioneer dv 410

(P.S :just a question - can you guys give an educated guess as to how my old sony DVP NS530 stacks up against the current lot audio wise?
i ask since i cannot find any reliable specs from the interenet for this real old model nor do i know anyone that has this player)

hoping for tsome clarification on the above and opinions
 
Hey! Magma. I suggest you get your spk, amp & try out your old sony dvd. If it sounds alright don't bother to get a new one. As for 5k DVD player your unlikely to find a player that can have day & night diff. So in case you are getting a new dvd just get the brand you prefer & trust.
All the best.
Cheers
 
Hi magma,

We have not forgotten about your query. I completely agree with neo that buying a new DVDP at 5K will not improve the audio quality over the already existing SONY. Stay with the one you have for the moment and wait for the future to open up new possibilities on the CDP front.
 
The Pioneer has a slight edge on sound quality output than the Philips. It also plays more formats AAC, WMV that the Philips. WIll any of these make your system sound better? Slightly but not enough to make you realize for a long time.

This is because a large no. of factors determine quality sound including the source CD/DVD, the player, speakers, environment and your listening levels and finally your mindset.

I would invest in more CDs/DVDs than a new DVDP.



oye
every1 forgot my query

need a budget dvd payer (5k)for now ( CDP will come later since as asit has guessed i cant afford all components together)

dvd player capable of decent audio though ,since it will be used till i buy a CDP
ive been adviced
phillips 3996
pioneer dv 410

(P.S :just a question - can you guys give an educated guess as to how my old sony DVP NS530 stacks up against the current lot audio wise?
i ask since i cannot find any reliable specs from the interenet for this real old model nor do i know anyone that has this player)

hoping for tsome clarification on the above and opinions
 
my dvd player has an optical out and a coaxial out

can someone enlighten me as to which is used when and where with some examples
Also what exactly are these outputs.is one better than the other?
 
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