what price to pay?

[dinyaar]

Stands are important;

What material do you recommend for stands ?

What should their weight be ? Speakers should be heavier or the stand heavier ?

Spikes are important ?

Hi Shanti,
Well i have the B&W FS 700 stands which are cast iron base and face plate and aluminium sections in between which can be filled with sand or similar.I have filled it 3/4 of the way with atabites. Different speakers need different types of stands(more/less damping) so its best to have that flexibility.
I know u are putting me to the test but ill answer anyway to the best of my knowledge. Please let me know how i have fared!!!!!!!
As regards the material, the more inert the material the better. I guess a dense stone like granite can make a good stand whereas glass would make a poor stand.
I guess the weight should be more than the speaker. (Mine definately are once filled)
Lastly spikes are important as it minimizes the contact area and isolates the speaker stands from the floor.
I also have used blue tack(also an inert substance) on the rubber feet provided with the speaker to ensure they dont tipple over.
Best regards

 

[Nevil]

Hey, been quietly following the thread.....it rocks, (info/analysis/pricing) I am surprised why no body has suggested a Exposure/Arcam/ Rotel. (guess the budget)
Is there a scope for bargaining with dealers in India?
For speakers, the Dynas/B&W...look no beyond (personal experience)
Ciao

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hey, been quietly following the thread.....it rocks, (info/analysis/pricing) I am surprised why no body has suggested a Exposure/Arcam/ Rotel. (guess the budget)
Is there a scope for bargaining with dealers in India?
For speakers, the Dynas/B&W...look no beyond (personal experience)
Ciao

Interesting point. Thought I'd add my 2 paise worth of opinion to that. Arcam is overpriced, more so in India. B&W's international prices are okay, but Indian prices, just don't ask, any one can buy much better for much less.

 

[Nevil]

Hi, reading through various threads I gather that Rotel/ Arcam/B&W/Cyrus prices are much higher in India than elsewhere. Also, the problem that a dealer has only a few selected brands. Thus comparision between amps/speakers is impossible. Feel that guys here are not getting a fair chance to audition what they want.
The solution of course is forums like this where people can spell out their experiences,tastes,likes,dislikes,agree,disagree,prices etc for the benifit of the novice audiophile. (Could past buyers post the prices they picked up their gizmos from and if comfortable the place too)
Keep the posts going and disagree more...things liven up and the discussion is more fruitful.
Ciao

An audiophile, from Latin audire[1] "to hear" and Greek philos[2] "loving," can be generally defined as a person dedicated to achieving high fidelity in the recording and playback of music.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Could past buyers post the prices they picked up their gizmos from and if comfortable the place too

I know I know what you're sayin. You're sayin you wan everyone ta know what deals they got

Many of members here must be reps of those dealers/resellers. I can see why they are sweating under the teeth

Hey mate, good idea. Great one, in fact. Lets start with you

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Nevil,
Ya it is not possible to hear everything under one roof but at least in cities like bbay and bglore its possible to hear them at all!!!!!!! Am sure most of our friends from other cities/towns do not have this good fortune.
This forum( at least recently) is very active, with member exchanging more than just opinions on products!!!!! And i see u are enjoying it! hahaha.
You shortlist what u want and am sure u will get the place where u can get a fair deal from the members here and if its one of the dealers i know well i promise u a decent price>
Best regards

 

[Nevil]

Hi Ranjeetrain, I am in India for a few months from the states...so dont really know much of the market here. Dinyar you are right, atleast in big towns guys get to listen to most of the brands.
Ranjeetrain sorry buddy, but havent bought anthing from India but might try fishing around if I get a good bargain. Yeah the market here is difficult, hope I am not rubbing the wrong side of dome dealers'. But will post my experiences with prices and offers from various dealers over the next few months. For a start, bargain...the discounts from MRP could be as much as 25-30%
Ciao

 

[ranjeetrain]

Hi Ranjeetrain, I am in India for a few months from the states...so dont really know much of the market here. Dinyar you are right, atleast in big towns guys get to listen to most of the brands.
Ranjeetrain sorry buddy, but havent bought anthing from India but might try fishing around if I get a good bargain. Yeah the market here is difficult, hope I am not rubbing the wrong side of dome dealers'. But will post my experiences with prices and offers from various dealers over the next few months. For a start, bargain...the discounts from MRP could be as much as 25-30%
Ciao

Hi Nevil,

Buddy trust me, if you have shopped around in USA, you cannot buy any electronics in India (may be excluding cellphones). You would be really lucky to get anything above 10-15% on MRP. Sales of hi-fi here are not great. Capital investment is too much and ROI not very high. Dealers are not really unjustified in charging a premium, but yes, it does get over the board.

What price you can get depends on who you are dealing with and what kind of rapport you have with them.

 

[bhagwan]

GamuT @ LaKozy !!! 20 % Discount !!!

I am not so sure;

However, a while back I remember seeing & listening to a GamuT L5 speaker @ Audio Show [Hyatt] & then @ Priyesh Patel's place - LaKozy;
This was made in Denmark - I think & the price was 20 % lower than Euro Retail.

I did some research & found that there is a new distributor in India.
Hermit Audio. They sell GamuT in India.
Apparently their prices are 'lower' that international retail by 20 % & have gear on demo & in stock.

My point being, if 1 person can do it, I am sure all can !!!
How come Hermit can sell & no one else can ?
Demo [in store & home] & ready Stock + 20 % discount....

BTW - How is GamuT as a product ?

 

[odyssey]

I hope people dont mind me posting a different perspective here as I see both sides (dealer and consumer).

The two biggest reasons for high cost for audio in India are shipping costs and customs duty, not to mention the pains that come with both of them. I am not even mentioning at this point the cost of retail floor space, inventory, etc...this is a given. There is also a common misconception that margins are ridiculously high, this is not necessarily true. While some products have good margins, some others have margins so low that it may not be worthwhile to sell them from a business point of view, ofcourse a dealer can charge more for such products but then they are high when compared to retail prices abroad so consumers dont feel like they are getting a fair deal.

As for Shanti's post, its also the case that matching or being lower than EU retail is easier for higher end products such as the GamuT. The L5 is in excess of $10K if I remember right. EU is also expensive when compared to US since there is close to 16% tax on incoming finished products.

cheers

 

[ranjeetrain]

Re: GamuT @ LaKozy !!! 20 % Discount !!!

I am not so sure;

However, a while back I remember seeing & listening to a GamuT L5 speaker @ Audio Show [Hyatt] & then @ Priyesh Patel's place - LaKozy;
This was made in Denmark - I think & the price was 20 % lower than Euro Retail.

I did some research & found that there is a new distributor in India.
Hermit Audio. They sell GamuT in India.
Apparently their prices are 'lower' that international retail by 20 % & have gear on demo & in stock.

My point being, if 1 person can do it, I am sure all can !!!
How come Hermit can sell & no one else can ?
Demo [in store & home] & ready Stock + 20 % discount....

BTW - How is GamuT as a product ?

A very good and informative post Shanti (missed it earlier).

Valid question, if one can do it, why not others. I have asked myself the same so many times. And let me tell you, the time is not far when they will be FORCED to. Because as people would become more aware of the exact prices, they will buy only from dealers that have good prices. Others can wait.

But currently that is not the case. How many of us really know the RRP in India? Or international prices? As a matter of fact in USA you get a discount of 20-30% on MRP rather easily. it will take time for that to happen in India.

 

[ranjeetrain]

The two biggest reasons for high cost for audio in India are shipping costs and customs duty, not to mention the pains that come with both of them. I am not even mentioning at this point the cost of retail floor space, inventory, etc...this is a given. There is also a common misconception that margins are ridiculously high, this is not necessarily true. While some products have good margins, some others have margins so low that it may not be worthwhile to sell them from a business point of view, ofcourse a dealer can charge more for such products but then they are high when compared to retail prices abroad so consumers dont feel like they are getting a fair deal.

I agree with that sentiment. I find it true, but only partially.

I have seen same pair of speakers being quoted at 30k, 27k and 26k in India. All three dealers were saying this is the best price I can give you and no one can give you a better price.

In another case, I found a pair quoted at 93k. I tricked him saying I have an offer of 85 and then he came down to 79. 79 from 93, that was quite some margin.

I am not against dealers making profit. That's what they are in the market for. That's why they have invested their capital. But yes, they can certainly do better.

The trick is to know the price. If you know the price, you can bargain. Otherwise, dealers would do what they are in the business for, make profit.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Re: GamuT @ LaKozy !!! 20 % Discount !!!

BTW - How is GamuT as a product ?

No personal experience, but I reckon they make some good high-end gear.

 

[gopi]

Recently I was interested in active monitors and was checking out KRK RP5. A pair in US costs $600, which has been tremendously discounted and I could get them as low as $200 from a well reputed store and in most places it was no more than $300. I called the Indian dealer and they quoted 27500 for the same. Thats 8000 vs 27500. It just doesn't make sense. On top of this, its not even like I can hear it before picking them up. They are only available in Bombay. Another thing was my personal experience with Monitor Audio B2. I was planning to buy them and was quoted 18k locally. At the same time BR2 , the successor of B2 was available already in India. While in UK both were released at 180 pounds and when BR2 was released you could get B2 for even 130 pounds, in India, it was just the opposite. B2 remained at 18k and BR2 was introduced in an awesome 29k. I had no choice and bought the last available piece of B2 in India, and the next month the revised price was 21k and now its 18k. I feel this was so unfair.

 

[odyssey]

I agree with that sentiment. I find it true, but only partially.

I have seen same pair of speakers being quoted at 30k, 27k and 26k in India. All three dealers were saying this is the best price I can give you and no one can give you a better price.

In another case, I found a pair quoted at 93k. I tricked him saying I have an offer of 85 and then he came down to 79. 79 from 93, that was quite some margin.

I am not against dealers making profit. That's what they are in the market for. That's why they have invested their capital. But yes, they can certainly do better.

The trick is to know the price. If you know the price, you can bargain. Otherwise, dealers would do what they are in the business for, make profit.

I agree that if one knows the price, one can bargain. As to why dealers charge differently and say that its the best price, to each his own. This is no different from how dealers function even a mature market like the US, so this is really no exception.
On the flip side, I have also seen customers trying to work the price backwards based on US retail or some other number with an assumed margin and shipping and duty costs and I can tell you that this is very hard to do unless one has knowledge of dealer/distributor pricing and very often (again IMO) the prices they work out are unrealistic. Here's another question to ponder over which IMO should go into what one pays -

Would you pay 96K for a speaker from a dealer who gives you good service and you want to have a longer term relationship with?
OR
Would you pay 79K for the same speaker from a dealer who will not give you anywhere near the same service and who may be looking to make quick buck?

Perhaps this is a bad example as the price differential is relatively big, perhaps in reality its a tradeoff, where one draws the line is ofcourse an individual choice.

cheers

 

[ranjeetrain]

Recently I was interested in active monitors and was checking out KRK RP5. A pair in US costs $600, which has been tremendously discounted and I could get them as low as $200 from a well reputed store and in most places it was no more than $300. I called the Indian dealer and they quoted 27500 for the same. Thats 8000 vs 27500. It just doesn't make sense. On top of this, its not even like I can hear it before picking them up. They are only available in Bombay. Another thing was my personal experience with Monitor Audio B2. I was planning to buy them and was quoted 18k locally. At the same time BR2 , the successor of B2 was available already in India. While in UK both were released at 180 pounds and when BR2 was released you could get B2 for even 130 pounds, in India, it was just the opposite. B2 remained at 18k and BR2 was introduced in an awesome 29k. I had no choice and bought the last available piece of B2 in India, and the next month the revised price was 21k and now its 18k. I feel this was so unfair.

That's hifi market in India for you. Take it or leave it.

 

[ranjeetrain]

On the flip side, I have also seen customers trying to work the price backwards based on US retail or some other number with an assumed margin and shipping and duty costs and I can tell you that this is very hard to do unless one has knowledge of dealer/distributor pricing and very often (again IMO) the prices they work out are unrealistic.

I agree. It is not realistic to expect to buy at US prices. But it should also not be 2-3 times of that price. It hurts when you find yourself paying that premium.

 

[odyssey]

I agree. It is not realistic to expect to buy at US prices. But it should also not be 2-3 times of that price. It hurts when you find yourself paying that premium.

Just for my own knowledge, would it be ok for you to post which high end audio components cost 2-3 times more? say components which retail in the US for say $2500 and upwards...

For smaller components this can happen, why? very simple freight and customs can be MORE than the price of the item. e.g. say a speaker in the US is $200. The US to India air freight, insurance and customs can be easily more than $200, in fact it could be twice that depending on weight. How can a dealer give this away for anything less than 2-3 times the price?

cheers

 

[particleman]

Just for my own knowledge, would it be ok for you to post which high end audio components cost 2-3 times more? say components which retail in the US for say $2500 and upwards...

B&W and other products in their stable sold by AVI in India is an excellent example of this. Denon and Marantz are also marked up nearly 100% but not as much as B&W (esp. the top of the 800 series).

Also I should add that there are dealers doing a superlative job in India by offering products at international prices and EVEN well below. I bought my CA kit from FX Entertainment at well below even the Richer Sounds price. And Designer Audio has been offering excellent prices for Wharfedale and Quad for some years now. Glad to add GamuT to that list. Even NAD/PSB pricing is pretty decent. While I do not make any claims to know "how the business works" I should say regretfully that I am a bit skeptical of why prices should be as high as they are for many brands.
If these guys can do it then surely there must be a way for the others as well.

 

[gopi]

Lets take Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 and Monitor Audio BR2. Both are 180 pounds on release in UK. In india its 11k vs 18k. How do you explain this. I have seen that in India 90% of components come with the MRP*rupee conversion + 40% tax + 20% margin. I know thats a rough cut conversion and too big a generalization. Recently I purchased Sennheiser PX100 for $33 in US. The local hifi shop has it for Rs.3500 - again 1300 vs 3500. Now, Reliance digital iStore procures them probably bigger in numbers and is selling it for 2700. Still its twice I pay for an item thats so small that anybody can carry in their backpack. Where is the money going except for margins and tax.
The worst of all is the purchasing power parity. Simply to speak, worth of $1 in US is not equal to Rs.40 in India. A rough cut math reveals to me that in general an Indian pays 10 times worth of money for the same setup compared to a person in US.