What to upgrade first?

[Akshit2111]

Budget? You mentioned 60k for upgrading AVR and you have already bought the WXC50. I assume somewhere in the range of 30-35k now.


Yes , You need a good power amp or integrated to drive RTI A7s , this has been my experience with A5s, so no doubts on that. You need to upgrade your stereo Amp first, IMHO.
Crown is a professional amp designed to go loud and may not be good choice for audiophile purposes. I have listened many Pro amps in Parties and was never happy in audiophile sense. I recently listened to Crown XLS 1502 at my home and it lacked the refinement I am looking for. But the problem is with my Yardsticks which may not be correct to judge the Pro amp. But to be frank I'd consider them for HT purposes but not for critical stereo listening.
Having said that, Crown provide unparalleled VFM; and at 25K offerings from the audiophile brands are not upto the mark. I would prefer Crown XLS 1502 over other offerings from Marantz and CA in that price range. Yamaha & Onkyo do offer stereo integrated amps in slightly higher price range which should be considered in my opinion. Polks are bright and tend to get harsh if not properly matched, the Crown again may not be a good choice with brighter speakers. Again these suggestions are mostly subjective in nature, you are a better judge for your listening preferences. Ideally if you could get a Crown XLS for home audition you can decide for yourself.


Yes I stand with the suggestion of getting a stereo amp instead of sub-woofer. A7s have adequate bass if driven with adequate power and integrating a Sub in a stereo system seamlessly is a challenge in itself. Also good Subs for music purposes cost a lot more than the budget intended.

Another option is buying used Amps. This is again maybe out of your budget but worth a consideration.
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/...ound-receiver-with-bluetooth-and-wi-fi.72039/

Thanks dr for such detailed explanation! See my budget was 60k at a stretch.. ideally i wanted it to around 40 45k.. though i said that if am given good options around 60 then i wont be fussy over this difference as buying audio equipments are not a daily chore for me..
Now all this aside.. my experience with yamaha pre amp i wud say has not been too positive!

I first compared the performance when i played songs through amazon fire stick on gaana and amazon music app with songs played on my phone through wifi cast using music cast.. here yamaha's sound was better... but then i compared performance over bluetooth connected to my AVR with yamaha's bluetooth.. here i really liked my AVR AS it had better bass though both lacked refinement at high volume levels.. this had me quite dissapointed as i was thinking that yamaha wud add something to my music listening experience through that ess sabre dac.. ( i am sorry my fundamentals may be weak here so please help)..

Also one forum member who was sailing in the same boat as me auditioned crown's performance over at some FM'S place and he said the crown focussed much more on vocals than on music.. and i really hate when vocals are too forward as compared to music..

Now things have gotten quite confusing for me.. my friend is going to Dubai tomorrow and i did not ask him to look for any good options therr as i had pretty much narrowed down to crown amp.. and since it is pretty cheap here there was no point giving it a shot in dubai..

Now options that lie ahead of me is either i get an integrated amplifier in which case the power output of an int amp that fits into my budget wud be around 50 60 watts per channel which is again of no use as my speakers demand more power and i have heard that given more power they perform really well and an int amp wud render my yamaha preamp useless.. ( though i can return it till 24th oct)

Next option wud be to go for a PA amp and stretch my budget a little like marantz 7025 u had suggested.. but then there are so many names to choose from..yamaha also has power amp onkyo has it marantz has it.. nad, cambridge audio emotiva!

If someone can list down names of good PA amps in and around my budget i can ask my friend to ask for their prices there and look for second hand options here!
And also should i return the preamp or shud i keep it?

 

[Mi_10]

Frankly speaking ...neither firestick nor Bluetooth is a great medium to check the fidelity of an equipment . Second, the Yamaha actually is very versatile since it can double up as a player in case you find an integrated Amp with better pre amp section . I always prefer seperates ...because I Feel that cramming up everything into one box is not really how good audio works . Yes it has superb usability and saves loads of space and lot of money (which you ll spend on cables and interconnects) but atleast each seperate does one job well and that’s their primary job . Be it an amplifier or preamp or DAC or transport , they justify their core job pretty well (another reason why AVR is not everyone’s cup of tea for playing stereo music ) with too many circuits in one box ...the overall noise floor will always be high when compared to a simple seperate where they keep things to minimum.
I haven’t heard the crown series you are talking about, but if people are vouching for it , then it is worth trying that out .
Now that doesn’t mean you cut out the marantz and NADs and CAs . If a good used amp comes in your price range ..do go for it .

 

[tuff]

@Akshit2111 Let's see what we started out with. We determined that the weakest link in your chain is the AVR. So the idea is to get a more powerful amplifier, and along with it a better source. At this point the weakest link is still in play and that i believe is mucking up the trip. Every AVR has a sound signature and currently you are still experiencing that mixed in with the Yamaha DAC/Preamp.
Now coming to power amp, Crown XLS 1502 specifically, i have compared with an Arcam delta P90 (which i still own) and and an Adcom power amp. This crown sounds fantastic and musical compared to both of those amps. One thing of beauty is how neutral the Crown is compared to the others, as i had also tried with a Schitt SYS (which is a passive volume control and absolutely flat, is not a preamp), and the Crown sounded dull on it's own. With Peachtree connected directly to the speakers ,the upper and mids sound the same, but with a lot of the bass part missing, as it is under powered for my Magnepan 1.7 speakers. . That is a good thing as a good power amp is not supposed to add it's own signature, but only amplify the preamp/DAC signal faithfully. Another thing every power amp should do is to double it's 8 ohm output at 4 ohms, without breaking a sweat. Most home audio power amps will fall way short, even if they do end up listing it in their spec sheets. Now Bluetooth is probably the worst kind to stream music, as it is compressed (unless you use an aptX BT device).
Another fm @dheerajin , who also is a user of crown, has a iFi tube preamp in the chain to power his PSB Synchrony floor standing speakers. One reason the crown works wonders is because of this transparency and linear output (which is a sought after thing if you want good audio).

 

[Akshit2111]

@Akshit2111 Let's see what we started out with. We determined that the weakest link in your chain is the AVR. So the idea is to get a more powerful amplifier, and along with it a better source. At this point the weakest link is still in play and that i believe is mucking up the trip. Every AVR has a sound signature and currently you are still experiencing that mixed in with the Yamaha DAC/Preamp.
Now coming to power amp, Crown XLS 1502 specifically, i have compared with an Arcam delta P90 (which i still own) and and an Adcom power amp. This crown sounds fantastic and musical compared to both of those amps. One thing of beauty is how neutral the Crown is compared to the others, as i had also tried with a Schitt SYS (which is a passive volume control and absolutely flat, is not a preamp), and the Crown sounded dull on it's own. With Peachtree connected directly to the speakers ,the upper and mids sound the same, but with a lot of the bass part missing, as it is under powered for my Magnepan 1.7 speakers. . That is a good thing as a good power amp is not supposed to add it's own signature, but only amplify the preamp/DAC signal faithfully. Another thing every power amp should do is to double it's 8 ohm output at 4 ohms, without breaking a sweat. Most home audio power amps will fall way short, even if they do end up listing it in their spec sheets. Now Bluetooth is probably the worst kind to stream music, as it is compressed (unless you use an aptX BT device).
Another fm @dheerajin , who also is a user of crown, has a iFi tube preamp in the chain to power his PSB Synchrony floor standing speakers. One reason the crown works wonders is because of this transparency and linear output (which is a sought after thing if you want good audio).

I adore your knowledge tuff and also how supportive you have been all this while.. but i guess i wont be able to risk it without auditioning the crown amp myself ! The only problem currently i feel us that i am quite occupied in office these days and also next month i have some important exams coming up otherwise i wud have been on my toes and jumping street to street taking auditions! Now the major fix i face is that if i audition crown next month and in case i dont like the sound signature i wud repent not getting some other good amp from dubai... mm7025 as suggested is roughly 45k there as opposed to 80k here in india.. so its all a mess up there.. i am inclining towards a good trusted known brand like marantz yamaha cambridge nad.. so that even if i audition crown next week and i like its sound i can very well sell the one i get and buy crown instead.. surely wud not incur a huge loss

 

[tuff]

Not a bad idea. Do look up Schitt vidar power amplifier too as it is another excellent power amplifier that can outrun most Marantz or Yamaha power amplifiers in it's price range. See if you can get it from Dubai for lesser price. Good luck.

 

[Akshit2111]

Not a bad idea. Do look up Schitt vidar power amplifier too as it is another excellent power amplifier that can outrun most Marantz or Yamaha power amplifiers in it's price range. See if you can get it from Dubai for lesser price. Good luck.

Thanks

 

[sound_cycle]

Thanks

I run a Saga + Vidar and think it is a nice combo.

The Indian D&D does not have it.

Schiit does not have D&D in Dubai. You will have to get it delivered from schiit Europe and then hand carry it

But it is ~ 13 kg . However it will fit into luggage.

The exchange is not in favour and things will bust the duty exempt limit at lower $ prices

ciao
gr

 

[dheerajin]

Not a bad idea. Do look up Schitt vidar power amplifier too as it is another excellent power amplifier that can outrun most Marantz or Yamaha power amplifiers in it's price range. See if you can get it from Dubai for lesser price. Good luck.

Yes tuff good idea....even i think for those who just started their journey should not choose crown as it can be digested only by seasoned ones. and they should choose crown only after listening on established system not a short term listening on any new setup. Moreover there is psychological phenomena prevalent that it is a Pro amp , so that prejudiced takes time to go away. Op should choose other than Crown amp IMO.

 

[Akshit2111]

Yes tuff good idea....even i think for those who just started their journey should not choose crown as it can be digested only by seasoned ones. and they should choose crown only after listening on established system not a short term listening on any new setup. Moreover there is psychological phenomena prevalent that it is a Pro amp , so that prejudiced takes time to go away. Op should choose other than Crown amp IMO.

What other do u suggest.. schiit vedar is not available in india..

 

[dheerajin]

What other do u suggest.. schiit vedar is not available in india..

If you can get new/used Parasound Halo A 23 from dubai or elsewhere...

 

[drkrack]

I first compared the performance when i played songs through amazon fire stick on gaana and amazon music app with songs played on my phone through wifi cast using music cast.. here yamaha's sound was better... but then i compared performance over bluetooth connected to my AVR with yamaha's bluetooth.. here i really liked my AVR AS it had
better bass though both lacked refinement at high volume levels.. this had me quite dissapointed as i was thinking that yamaha wud add something to my music listening experience through that ess sabre dac.. ( i am sorry my fundamentals may be weak here so please help)..

Neither Firestick or BT is good source to decide on anything, get some Flac files and play via USB of Yamaha and let us know. The AVR still in chain may not give you an adequate assessment of SQ of WXC50.

Now things have gotten quite confusing for me.. my friend is going to Dubai tomorrow and i did not ask him to look for any good options therr as i had pretty much narrowed down to crown amp.. and since it is pretty cheap here there was no point giving it a shot in dubai..

Since you are Planning to keep the Electronics for long term, forgo the urge to jump to grab overseas deals . Take your time , audition, get convinced and then buy.

Next option wud be to go for a PA amp and stretch my budget a little like marantz 7025 u had suggested.. but then there are so many names to choose from..yamaha also has power amp onkyo has it marantz has it.. nad, cambridge audio emotiva!

Emotiva has a poweramp in less than 40k Range which is good as far as the reviews go our FM @celester340 using one, Emotiva and Schiit share the same philosophy of making audiophilia affordable.

Next option wud be to go for a PA amp and stretch my budget a little like marantz 7025 u had suggested.. but then there are so many names to choose from..yamaha also has power amp onkyo has it marantz has it.. nad, cambridge audio emotiva!

If someone can list down names of good PA amps in and around my budget i can ask my friend to ask for their prices there and look for second hand options here!
And also should i return the preamp or shud i keep it?

I am happy with Schiit Vidar, in fact I am planning to buy another one for bridged Mono.
Emotiva BasX series
Parasound A23
Audiolab, NAD, Onkyo and Marantz have good options Check with your Local dealers and get the prices, online prices of HiFi are quite deceptive.

 

[Akshit2111]

I could come up eith few option which seem to be in and around my budget

1) Marantz mm7025
2) yamaha R-N803 ( have heard that DAC on S-801 is better than this but sadly S 801 is not available in our country.. s801 got great reviews at audiohaulics)
3) Emotiva xpa-2 gen 3 -- got this recommendation from guys at ooberpad.
4) emotiva A-300 ( Cnet has lot of good things to say about this amp also its budget friendly)
5) Nad 275bee ( recommended by folks at NAD though a little costly confused as to should be given a chance or not)
6) schiit vedar ( not available here)
7) crown xls 1502 ( have seen some mixed opinions on this.. some people who own it say its a great amp also some who experienced it say its not that good)
8) NAD C368 INT AMP (though less powerful but have heard that NAD usually is modest about their figures)
9) denon pma 1600 ( sugested by folks at profx but eay too expensive)
10) marantz pm 8600 ( same as above)

If someone can help me list them according to their preference and experience and keeping my budget in mind. If you guys have experience with above mentioned amps.

 

[MaSh]

After 10 pages, it looks like you are back where you started. Being new into this, I would again honestly advice looking for an Integrated Stereo Amplifier from Cambridge Audio, NAD, etc.

With 80% Music usage, you can even consider going All Stereo setup and be done with the receiver all together. Keep it simple, dont over complicate it for yourself.

MaSh

 

[reachkalyan.kr]

I could come up eith few option which seem to be in and around my budget

1) Marantz mm7025
2) yamaha R-N803 ( have heard that DAC on S-801 is better than this but sadly S 801 is not available in our country.. s801 got great reviews at audiohaulics)
3) Emotiva xpa-2 gen 3 -- got this recommendation from guys at ooberpad.
4) emotiva A-300 ( Cnet has lot of good things to say about this amp also its budget friendly)
5) Nad 275bee ( recommended by folks at NAD though a little costly confused as to should be given a chance or not)
6) schiit vedar ( not available here)
7) crown xls 1502 ( have seen some mixed opinions on this.. some people who own it say its a great amp also some who experienced it say its not that good)
8) NAD C368 INT AMP (though less powerful but have heard that NAD usually is modest about their figures)
9) denon pma 1600 ( sugested by folks at profx but eay too expensive)
10) marantz pm 8600 ( same as above)

If someone can help me list them according to their preference and experience and keeping my budget in mind. If you guys have experience with above mentioned amps.

Hi ,
First of all you should know what do you want otherwise it's endless thread.
You have listed integrated aswel Poweramp in your list.

I strongly feel u have to go for integrated amp like Yamaha RN803,Marantz 8005/8006 after audition.

10) marantz pm 8600 ( same as above)

I believe it is PM8006 !!

 

[Akshit2111]

After 10 pages, it looks like you are back where you started. Being new into this, I would again honestly advice looking for an Integrated Stereo Amplifier from Cambridge Audio, NAD, etc.

With 80% Music usage, you can even consider going All Stereo setup and be done with the receiver all together. Keep it simple, dont over complicate it for yourself.

MaSh

Ya but these int amp are not that cheap.. they almost touch a lakh easily. From your experience which amps do u suggest be it integrated be it power.

 

[prateekatasniya]

Ya but these int amp are not that cheap.. they almost touch a lakh easily. From your experience which amps do u suggest be it integrated be it power.

As you have already got the Yamaha DAC+pre.
You must opt for power amp.
And btw returns are possible on Amazon only if the product packing is intact and the product is unused.
The sellers will be in big loss if they accept opened products.

 

[Akshit2111]

As you have already got the Yamaha DAC+pre.
You must opt for power amp.
And btw returns are possible on Amazon only if the product packing is intact and the product is unused.
The sellers will be in big loss if they accept
Ya after buying yamaha power amp wud make more sense

 

[MaSh]

Ya but these int amp are not that cheap.. they almost touch a lakh easily. From your experience which amps do u suggest be it integrated be it power.

Lol there are amps available in all price ranges and not to forget pre-worshipped ones too. If I were you, I'd go for a NAD. The advantage being, all nads can be used as either integrated, just pre or just power amp. A 50w nad has enough grunt to power your speakers. You can look at a new nad or a pre-worshipped.

I use a nad c320bee to drive a pair of kef towers rated at 86db impedance. There is no shortage of power.

MaSh

 

[Akshit2111]

Lol there are amps available in all price ranges and not to forget pre-worshipped ones too. If I were you, I'd go for a NAD. The advantage being, all nads can be used as either integrated, just pre or just power amp. A 50w nad has enough grunt to power your speakers. You can look at a new nad or a pre-worshipped.

I use a nad c320bee to drive a pair of kef towers rated at 86db impedance. There is no shortage of power.

MaSh

Thanks ill keep this in mind

 

[tuff]

@Akshit2111 Here is a Quad power amp for sale.https://www.hifivision.com/threads/quad-power-amplifier-elite-qsp.71173/
31K. Should fit in your budget. Have no idea what it sounds like, nor do i have any affiliation with the seller.