Whatsamp?

[Analogous]

Amplifiers sit in the middle of our audio chain and do things…. like amplification.
But we know it’s not that simple.
Exploring options and finding one that matches our room, our speakers and most importantly our musical taste is critical
But we know that it’s not simple.
There are so many designs, so many topologies to consider
So that’s not simple too.

So how did we choose what we did?
I went through a number of amps of different topologies and designs. it was an experiential learning proces, an expensive one. often frustrstung, occasionally rewardin. And I am not sure if it will ever end. (The dilemma of the foolish audiophile whose “dil always maange more”?)

I see plenty of newbies joining the forum in the hope of getting solid advice from experienced FM. I have not seen anyone actually explain that the process could be long depending upon how deep they wishbto dive into this quicksand.

Please share your experiences and insights into the process…

 

[keith_correa]

Here's my advice FWIW:
Don't buy solely (blindly) on the basis of what one hears at other's homes (or at the dealer) - 95% of the time, it's never going to sound the same at your home.
If one is buying based on what they hear at other's homes or at the dealer, be aware that it is akin to playing Roulette. And the odds are stacked against you!

 

[arj]

Very Nice Topic !
Something which I have learnt the hard way- There is no Best Amp !

What you have is - What works with your Speaker ( 2nd most important) and in your room ( Most important)

There are different types of Amps separated by
1. Class ( A/AB/D)
2. SS Vs Tube
3. SE vs Push Pull
4. Constant Current vs Constant Voltage
5 OTL vs Output transformers
6. High power vs Low power

etc etc..not even getting into Damping factors, Power change by impedance

But all this means Squat !

In the end you have a speaker in a Room and this combination takes Priority after which it is about finding the best Amp to drive that combination and finding that is not easy. while there are guidelines eg Horn speakers in a largish room with a Tube ideally SE there may always be a SS amp which can drive it better.

Hence biggest advice Newbees: Choose the right speaker for your Room and then ask around in th forum as well as in the public domain as well as the the distributor/designers on a good combination

Another learning : Always account for Ownership Bias. If you ask the owner of any component..it it always be described as the best Ask someone who is a past owner ideally in a 1:1 and you will get a truer picture. Please do not go by "King for Bass" or God of Midrange" posts . they dont mean anything

 

[keith_correa]

What you have is - What works with your Speaker ( 2nd most important) and in your room ( Most important)

This!

But all this means Squat !

And this!

In the end you have a speaker in a Room and this combination takes Priority after which it is about finding the best Amp to drive that combination and finding that is not easy.

And this!

Always account for Ownership Bias. If you ask the owner of any component..it it always be described as the best Ask someone who is a past owner ideally in a 1:1 and you will get a truer picture. Please do not go by "King for Bass" or God of Midrange" posts . they dont mean anything

And above all, this!

 

[Analogous]

This!

And this!

And this!

And above all, this!

So, we have some pointers on what not to do…the elephant is still in the room

Keeping in mind that no dealer agrees to home demos and online orders of HiFi equipment with return policies are limited to a few items on Amazon India, how does a person new to this start?

Experienced FM in different cities could come together and organise a one day seminar-demos and Q&A of their set ups for newbies?

 

[arj]

So, we have some pointers on what not to do…the elephant is still in the room

Keeping in mind that no dealer agrees to home demos and online orders of HiFi equipment with return policies are limited to a few items on Amazon India, how does a person new to this start?

With Speakers you need to hear it. But with Amps unless you hear it with a similiar speaker and room ( an smilier quality source) you cannot draw any conclusion worth while.

But again if you are a newbee, it is worthwhile to hear some good setups to get your ear "tuned" as to what a good sound means to you. In india where we have been exposed to Loud sounds, ear piercing treble and Earthshaking single toned bass, there is a reset needed.

IF you are spending in Lakhs to get a system then its worth it to spend a few thousands in travelling even if it means to a different city to hear. Am sure people who have done it will only say that they have more than recovered the cost as else they would have paid money for needless upgrades and experimentation.

Experienced FM in different cities could come together and organise a one day seminar-demos and Q&A of their set ups for newbies?

Great suggestion..there is a thread on it as well

A

 

[jai1611]

The room synergy is tough to predict for someone new. However the speaker synergy is solvable. Carry your speakers to different dealers and try amps.

 

[arj]

The room synergy is tough to predict for someone new. However the speaker synergy is solvable. Carry your speakers to different dealers and try amps.

very true, but there are some rough guidelines you can follow around size of the speaker and driver, amount of space the speaker really needs behind it to breathe etc to make a general evaluation.

As a first step this is not an exact science to get perfect sound but to work around compromises to get a good enough sound then then tweak the hell out to perfect it, whether it be positions, power, isolation etc...

 

[Analogous]

With Speakers you need to hear it. But with Amps unless you hear it with a similiar speaker and room ( an smilier quality source) you cannot draw any conclusion worth while.

But again if you are a newbee, it is worthwhile to hear some good setups to get your ear "tuned" as to what a good sound means to you. In india where we have been exposed to Loud sounds, ear piercing treble and Earthshaking single toned bass, there is a reset needed.

IF you are spending in Lakhs to get a system then its worth it to spend a few thousands in travelling even if it means to a different city to hear. Am sure people who have done it will only say that they have more than recovered the cost as else they would have paid money for needless upgrades and experimentation.


Great suggestion..there is a thread on it as well

A

So it’s better to select the speaker and amp together based on compatibility and synergy if starting out with the first set up rather than buy them one by one hoping for synergy?

 

[Kannan]

Speaker first or amplifier first in itself is a big dilemma.
I am a speaker advocate to begin with as it is the last in the chain and is what we actually hear. I had stuck to one speaker pair (that underwent some tweaks over the period) for many years though many came in-between for short periods.
After chasing the elephant as one says, I managed to find the best synergy with a set of components to match the said speaker of which the most challenging was the amp.
The chain worked quite fell in different rooms (but limited to a maximum room size).

It is easy to choose a best measuring speaker and a matching best measuring amp, and get the best measurements out of the combination. But sadly, our ears are not mics and each pair of ear is caliberated differently and is also influenced by age and other factors.

As a member of the forum and if you are on a serious search, and if you live in a city where there is possibility to listen to different setups, try it out at FM homes and also in showrooms. Getting to listen at your dome might be very difficult in India.

 

[Analogous]

As a member of the forum and if you are on a serious search, and if you live in a city where there is possibility to listen to different setups, try it out at FM homes and also in showrooms.

Great suggestion. And practical too

 

[arj]

So it’s better to select the speaker and amp together based on compatibility and synergy if starting out with the first set up rather than buy them one by one hoping for synergy?

Totally. as @Kannan has mentioned
Speaker is the biggest contributor to tonality and that is what touches you with music

Room is the constraint and hence need to make sure you choose the speaker which can work in your room and get you the music as you want it

Amplifier is the to get the best of your speaker in That Room for which Power is the raw material which is shaped in the image of the Input signal by the amplifier.

Source provides the input signal based on the reading of the media

 

[chander]

Great pointers in here & as always an interesting & thought provoking post by @Analogous .

In my opinion, points of note -
1 - There is no substitute for listening.
2 - Nothing out there is made for your room. So tweaking to get what you want is a must. Some do it with equipment, some do it with softwares, some get lucky with placement But expectations that - "a particular equipment will deliver it's best in your house" - needs to be curbed by a fair bit.
3 - Ownership bias is real As @arj pointed out - bang on.
4 - Accepting that there is no - perfect amp (or speaker or dac) out there for you and that you have preferences; which will be different from the engineers', the reviewers', brands' & your friend's whose opinion you so value. Also know what you like today - you may not in a year or Two, our preferences change all the time and that is fine.
5 - Expectations & Bias - keep them in check! Take a second opinion of those who have no skin in the game A lot of times you will be pleasantly surprised!!

My selection process for amplifier -
1 - Reviews for shortlisting - & some basic minimum power requirement etc is always the first phase.
2 - Ignore the topology - have an open mind. Barring tubes (they do sound different - maybe because of the visual aspect of it - it is a bit romantic) - I have always felt that Class D/A/AB - the differences between these topologies is the same as the difference between various amps within the same topology. I have been lucky enough to hear or own almost all the above mentioned & it has never happened till date - that I am listening to something & I get up from my seat and say - oh that is a class A. NOPE. We pay too much heed to this.
3 - Versatility - When it comes to amps, I always like to listen to them with various speakers & if possible chains. If the amp is versatile enough to rock it with various speakers, that tops in my list. As finding a match with millions of permutations is just impossible. So find something that works well with most, put it on your shortlist of the shortlist.
4 - Aesthetics - Atleast for me. This is as important as the sound. I recently moved to studio actives with a bunch of pro gear and man - I have been looking for ways to hide them, from acoustically transparent boxes , to just hiding them behind silk curtains I have thought of it all.
5 - Reliability - This for me again trumps a few things sound. I can rarely put my faith in unknown brands (WIIM being an exception -given the price) with no track record of standing the test of time. The customer experience for me is critical.
6- Last but not the least (but this depends on access) - Will I listen to it? & here we need patience. I have as we all from time to time, been guilty of first impression/impulsive purchases. I have done it with things "Not-Audio" as well. And that is a gamble. I have now started giving things a couple years (yes sounds crazy). Take demos, go to friends who own them. Sit down and listen in the background, rock with it, evaluate critically. Do I look forward to it? Only time can tell.

Post Purchase -
***Also - not just amplifiers - but give anything you buy 'some time'. Let it grow on you. Let the honeymoon period pass. A lot of us get impulsive, the amplifier just came in and we are changing cables, dacs, power strips. And hence constant dissatisfaction leading to new purchases. All change is difficult, however small. Have patience and then decide - whether you like something or not. If not - you know what to do

 

[sudokpr]

Another important factor is our ability to remember sound.
If one cannot "re-live" the sound they have heard, it is hard to pin-point the subtle differences in sound. The most expensive amplifier will sound the same as the cheapest one.

When I started learning Carnatic music at the age of 24, I think I took almost a year to start recognising the differences between the Shudha swara and its variants ( Chatusruthi, sadharana, kaishika etc.)
There were small kids in my music class and they were so quick in recognising these frequencies and reproduce all of them in a sequence
I still cannot switch ragas immediately

Apparently the definition of Audiophile doesn't include the sensitivity of human ears.

From Wikipedia

An audiophile is a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction

From dictionary.cambridge.org

A person who is very interested in and enthusiastic about equipment for playing recorded sound, and its quality

According to Cambridge dictionary if one is enthusiastic about the hifi equipment, they are audiophiles.

 

[bornfi]

All brands in the market are there with the intent that is a mix of passion for quality sound + Passion to earn money out of it. My decisions have been based on doing extensive reading on the internet to find the ones where Passion for quality sound is marginally greater than Passion to earn money.

 

[Analogous]

I think it’s now time for a newbie to read through all the posts we have done above and give us some feedback

Any takers? Be nice if you do. Our intentions are good and constructive feedback will help everyone

@anilpatel posted this a while ago in another thread. 9 ugly truths about Hifi