Why in India Customised audio systems are not popular

[firearm12]

My next thread would be " Local product owners thread " soon.
Please give some insights and suggestions.
Thanks again people.

My suggestion:

1. Need to make exceptional products (not good) so that people get out of made in japan made in us made in italy kind of mentality. A product cannot be considered superior only if its made in these countries. To get them out of it , it needs patience and ofcourse very high quality products. E.g. allo is a perfect example. When u get a product at this level, noone thinks where its actually made.

2. Why customised products cannot make good chassis and good looking builds. Beauty is something should not be compromised. Any excellent product is always backed by excellent build.

3. You can say its sick mentality but we tend to go by what foreigners prefer, allo also got noticed only when foreign people started praising it. This is the effect of hundreds if years of slavery which has put an impression inside our genes that we are inferior. This needs to go, and it will only go if we are proud of our history and achievements, something which will always remain in black. If we cannot change it only way is to market the products at a level where they are seen by entire world and they appreciate them.


Now if anyone thinks that just going by ears and listening to a system will work better and we should concentrate more on demos so that more and more people know about the local products, this is not how it works. I dont think anywhere in the world people prefer local products. They prefer what the world prefer.

All this is for commercial products only and DIY is excluded and this is not relevant to that. Diy is driven by individual passion and the person does not think what the world thinks.

 

[Kana711104]

My suggestion:

1. Need to make exceptional products (not good) so that people get out of made in japan made in us made in italy kind of mentality. A product cannot be considered superior only if its made in these countries. To get them out of it , it needs patience and ofcourse very high quality products. E.g. allo is a perfect example. When u get a product at this level, noone thinks where its actually made.

2. Why customised products cannot make good chassis and good looking builds. Beauty is something should not be compromised. Any excellent product is always backed by excellent build.

3. You can say its sick mentality but we tend to go by what foreigners prefer, allo also got noticed only when foreign people started praising it. This is the effect of hundreds if years of slavery which has put an impression inside our genes that we are inferior. This needs to go, and it will only go if we are proud of our history and achievements, something which will always remain in black. If we cannot change it only way is to market the products at a level where they are seen by entire world and they appreciate them.

Very rightfully said.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

My next thread would be " Local product owners thread " soon.
Please give some insights and suggestions.

There is already one thread for Indian hi-fi listing and owner/listeners' experience:
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/...h-best-in-class-international-products.78604/
Do consider contributing to it.

 

[surfatwork]

Here's what I think.
Local systems sell perfectly well in the super budget space - 10k and below.
Above that, most people (not "audiophiles") start to consider it a significant investment. So they are looking for after sales, brand, looks etc. And it is assumed that a Bose, denon or Marantz will sound good. And they will to most people.
An Indian hifi mfr rarely offers all of that. Then we come to the Diy amps. It is accepted within the audiophile world that for a given price, the Diy amp will almost certainly have better components etc. But reliability, service, looks is a concern. And once you add in those things, it starts to get expensive.
So it's really pretty logical why Indians don't usually buy Indian.

 

[keith_correa]

*. How many "custom" audio makers has anyone come across? Names? Location? URL's of their websites?

*. How many "custom" audio products has anyone heard? Equipment types?

 

[mallikreddyk]

DIY audio can be made beautiful, functional and superior quality and still be very cost effective. If somebody says otherwise, it means a lack of skill.

DIY has an entry point which is little high because we as customers cannot get the benefit of economies of scale.
but beyond that range, the price/performance of DIY is amazing.

My experience has been if buying a pair of speakers under 20-25k, better to go branded. and any budget above that, it is easy to DIY speakers that provide an astonishing price/performance.

Case in point:
You could make this kit for about 35k.

BROMO - Sbacoustics

Remark : Will not be available in kits. Bromo is taken from an active volcano in East Java, Indonesia. The name Bromo is derived from a word in Javanese: pronunciation of Brahma, The Hindu creator of God. It is a 2-way ported speaker with hard material drivers. The drivers are known for very...

sbacoustics.com

or you could buy the same from revel for $1500 a pair + import cost and duties

Revel Performa3 M105 (Piano Black)

Bookshelf speaker

www.crutchfield.com

Both use the same drivers, and infact revel uses the 5 inch version, while SB who is the OEM for revel uses 6 inches driver in their opensource kit.

 

[spirovious]

Now today Subject look changed from Customised to Make in India.There are already good Indian brands which many FMs are using.eg. Norge, DNM, Sonodyne and others.

 

[haisaikat]

DIY has an entry point which is little high because we as customers cannot get the benefit of economies of scale.
but beyond that range, the price/performance of DIY is amazing.

If there is growing people interest then DIY kits can also be made available at cost effective prices. Some successful group buys on this forum previously has already witnessed this like the CNC Phono by @sachu888

I believe low cost but high performance oriented DIY is already popular as evident from above example. But otherwise because of lower resale people do not easily go for higher priced DIY easily

 

[mallikreddyk]

They're not the same drivers at all. $1500 for a pair, that's 1,13,000 rupees plus shipping and import duties. SB acoustics bromos use the ceramic coated woofer and tweeter from their aluminium line, they're very well regarded in the DIY circles and quite reasonably priced even in India.

Read the full details regarding Bromo, you can make them using aluminum drivers (woofer and tweeter) or ceramic drivers, both present the same response. I was talking about using Aluminum cones to present a like for like comparison. and Ceramic ones are used one range above in the revel series, but for us the difference is about 2-3k. either way, it makes a fine speaker for about 35k..

those Aluminum series (NBAC) are the same drivers used in buchart s400 as well, very well regarded.

 

[powerslave]

Reasons are simple ; first and foremost one should look at this question from perspective of do Indians even love and appreciate good art leave alone music ? 99 % Indians listen to bollycrap or 'fast music' (like fast food) , now please don't jump on me with some exceptions here and there as one or two good music scores that come out once in 5 years , please note good here doesn't just mean good lyrics and score it also means how that music is produced and mastered , if you are going to record a song with a motive to make it a hit amongst the masses you try to mish mash lot of things to get most downloads on mobile phones and not sell most vinyls or hires CDs you will record that song in studio with such optimisations and trade offs. Hopefully once this fact sinks in you now only have to worry about the remaining 1 % of the population. Traditionally the connoisseurs of the classical music (western classical) that is mastered in a manner which will reveal it's nuances on a HIFI gear come from well to do families or those who have seen this world a bit and have been fortunate to run into that dimension . It is not to say Indian classical music doesn't need to be played on hifi gear but I haven't come across many good recordings , a highly revealing or analytical system at times is not a good choice for Indian content. Which means we are dealing with a very very narrow segment of the market , catch is this segment also happens to be affluent or at least upper middle class (check India's 50 percentile capita income and most of us will fall above that). When people have money to spend they will play safe with brands so let's say if I could afford a good system I would buy a Pass labs not from custom shop in India that can fold up any time . Another key thing to note is custom shops in India cannot give good fit and finish unlike custom shops abroad; please check DIYaudio forums and pictures of tube gear and pass labs derivates made by common folk , the fit and finish those guys achieve in basements of their homes is far better than any of the Indian hifi manufacturers by at-least a factor of 4/5 if not more . Look this is not to trash what Indian manufacturers are doing , the fact is very simple our market is not big enough and Indian buyer that has a budget of say 1 lakh or more is brand conscious they would rather buy a Denon/Yamaha or whatever entry gear they have heard of over some small Indian custom shop. Custom shops in the west don't sell to those who buy gear from best buy or a nearby mall , there too custom gear is targeted to middle and luxury segment. When I was in the market for Amps and speakers I was open to buying from Indian manufacturers but somehow could never convince myself to invest money into something that might have sounded good but looked so crude , say if you have a budget of 2 lakhs which by the way is not much for good hifi in this country you could buy a used amp and a bookshelf from a tier 1 brand that will serve you well and also not lose value when or if you sell it again , another thing you can keep them in drawing room and they won't look ugly . Custom shops or current Indian offerings don't fit into this sort of budget as well as meet the needs of an 'average' buyer in this segment.

 

[alpha1]

May be I missed it if someone already mentioned this but for many, a high-end audio is a big piece for show-off.
Do it yourself or Indian customization will not appeal to this junta.

 

[Kushanava]

The word " Custom " plays in a audiophiles ' mind as ' Coloured' . So it doesn't fit in an audiophiles vocabulary..but personally i do agree with the concept as each of us hear differently and do have personal preferences...The other thing that bothers an audiophile's mind is does a " Custom" system mean I needn't upgrade?Am i left behind on the newest tech that will be marketed tomorrow?...it becomes very difficult to control your mind when you see your fellow audiophile or reviewer raving about a phenomenal " giant killer" gear...I again go back in the loop and ask myself again..." Why am i upgrading" ? The answer still remains the same " i am customizing the system" to my liking...After all its a hobby ...and you don't want to stop! On a real world scenario ...things might change if you see a well known brand ( say audionote) offering u a custom solution..within your budget...i think most of us will say " yes" ...but may land up with " several" customized system...Again you customize your listening according to various factors..music genre, mood,whom do you listen with, room, ambience ...and what not....So there again could be various variations of the custom system...but one good thing is ..you have listened to it before selecting!

 

[sachu888]

I agree to your statement that for many, high end audio is a big show. And also, I believe that they are never worth the high price tag they come with. But they definitely sound better than any Indian brand or DIY. This is my humble opinion after many auditions and comparisons.

100% disagreed. Please read this thread. He has directly compared it with Pass F5,and McIntosh amplifiers he owned. Bill is a friend and owned so many well known expensive high end gears. You will find many more reviews like this on web.
Couple of more thread for reference
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...igh-end-phono-stage-no-expense-spared.371889/ https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ad797-phono-stage-build-and-help-desk-thread.501186/

Regards
Sachin

 

[Nikhil]

Lot's of gyaan being shared on here. And that's fine.
However, please qualify your statement as your opinion because that's what it is.

To talk about high end or high anything loosely without credibility is not good form.




.

 

[powerslave]

Who awards credibility is there a committee for it ?

 

[Nikhil]

Who awards credibility is there a committee for it ?

It's pretty simple - you have to earn it.



.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

However, please qualify your statement as your opinion because that's what it is.

I don't understand this, TBH. Anything that isn't fact is implicitly someone's opinion. Why does anyone need to qualify their statement(s) as such, even if some of us occasionally do so?

To talk about high end or high anything loosely without credibility is not good form.

What does credibility have to do with the right to express one's opinion? And that's without even considering the bizarrely elitist notion (IMO) that such credibility is seemingly necessary when talking about "high end" or "high anything".

 

[Nikhil]

I don't understand this, TBH. Anything that isn't fact is implicitly someone's opinion. Why does anyone need to qualify their statement(s) as such, even if some of us occasionally do so?

Not saying you have to qualify per se as much as just recognizing that one may not have the last word on anything.

What does credibility have to do with the right to express one's opinion? And that's without even considering the bizarrely elitist notion (IMO) that such credibility is seemingly necessary when talking about "high end" or "high anything".

There are members on here who have an appreciation for high end. This is after all an audio forum where people come on here to try and squeeze out as much as they can within their means. So to have people come here and make blanket statements knocking high end is not exactly going to be left unchallenged. This isn't elitist.


.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Not saying you have to qualify per se as much as just recognizing that one may not have the last word on anything.

Okay, fair enough. I'm not sure what in this thread prompted that though.

There are members on here who have an appreciation for high end.

As there are members with the same for "low/middle end", however you want to define these things.

So to have people come here and make blanket statements knocking high end is not exactly going to be left unchallenged. This isn't elitist.

It is elitist when you combine "good form" with "high-end", which implies that there's a proper way of behaving when it comes to "knocking high-end". If there's going to be etiquette (and I'm not sure knocking anything is rude unless it's personal or malicious), it should be across the board, not just there to avoid offending the sensibilities of the "high-end" crowd.

Folks posting here are adults. If they don't understand that their opinions might be challenged, they'll learn soon enough.

We're here on this forum fundamentally because of our passion for audio and video. And, as you say, a desire to better it within our means. All I'm saying is let there be no divisions based on perceived class.

 

[jenson]

people in our country do invest in audio, look at the success of saregama caravan. but the indian customers want audio at a price point. for anyone who then likes to upgrade, their next exposure is to retail clients like croma/hyper city et al. i know many who have an yamaha/denon entry level av or 5.1 system but hardly any who have serious audio. even if they chose to buy serious stuff from Indian companies, they don't exactly come cheap. Pulz entry level pre and amp may set you back by 25k plus gst...why buy that when you can get a avr for as much with speakers thrown in for slightly more.

i feel it's about positioning of indian products...Pulz / Norge / Sonodyne - they have no inclination to "educate" customers on what they are missing on. unless they sow the seeds and catch the eye of that 15 year old, he'll never aspire for that. how many ads to we see in paper or magazines?

with regards to OP, you post is with lots of twists and turns. products from china are cheap, amazon delivers it to your home for 5k, its a price point customer likes. none of those amps have bass and treble controls for "boom chick". also, to suggest, music should be listened to in "flat" A. that's being ignorant (do you have the exact speakers/amp that the music was made on? and B. i like a little bass on some, a little more on some and completely full on some, same goes for my treble...i like a bit of spice in my life (*pictures the beautiful Helen in full glory*). those who made music knew what i want, i just make it better

lastly, i have invested in DIY, they showcase their work here and it makes an huge impact, rest is word of mouth...