Why People hate Bose

[asliarun]

Eventually one may arrive at choice of gear that sounds marvelous all by fluke and pretend it was the intellectual approach that won oneself the rewards.

Like in many other areas of life, in the audiophile journey too the thrill of the chase can more rewarding than the actual fruits of the labor. hyeah:

--G0bble

That was very well said! Taleb calls this hindsight bias in Fooled By Randomness.

I'm also using impedance curves for example to determine which speakers I can drive with my Topping Tripath amp which is very measly on musical watts. In fact as psychotropic earlier suggested, Usher S520 actually work really well with low watt amps because even though their efficiency is quite low (mid 80s), their impedance curve is much more stable than many other bookshelf speakers. Dips in impedance can be real brutal on amps that don't have high current capacity.

Another challenge is to actually be able to listen to many of the new-age speakers and amps that are only sold off the internet. How does one audition them? Specs and graphs help a great deal in at least somewhat extrapolating how these speakers or amps will perform in our conditions and with our other equipment.

 

[deepakgang]

I think this was posted before but below is a post which tries to explain a use of impedance graph while choosing speaker for a tube amp

Symphony Sound - Tube Friendly Speakers

 

[asliarun]

I think this was posted before but below is a post which tries to explain a use of impedance graph while choosing speaker for a tube amp

Symphony Sound - Tube Friendly Speakers

Thanks so much!! Now I feel stupid that I was trying to figure this out with my own desi logic when this has already been analyzed and well documented.

 

[gobble]

I think this was posted before but below is a post which tries to explain a use of impedance graph while choosing speaker for a tube amp

Symphony Sound - Tube Friendly Speakers

Oh timely reminder!! I recall reading it a year back. But you know what? You won't find the phase angle information with most speaker manufacturers.


--G0bble

 

[jaudere]

Hi,
Today I visited Forum mall Bangalore.
For the first time, I got a chance to listen to Bose. Heard 2 systems. First the passive 2.1 system costing 22.5k connected to Yamaha receiver. Second, somethiting with 3*2*1 in its name. Costing 79K. It had active sub and DVD Player.
Frankly speaking, I did not like what i heard. Could not even listen to full song 'bahon ke darmiya'(Khamoshi) which is one of my favorites and on my system i can listen to 3-4 times continuously. It was too sharp for my taste.
Now off topic, I heard Harman Kardon 3490 stereo amp with JBL( Studio series) towers. Even that was too sharp for my tastes.
Later in the same mall, i heard a samsung 5.1 home theatre (with blue ray player and 5 towers). Costing 45k. Heard it in 2.1 mode. It was much better than both HK-JBL & Bose at least for my tastes.
Mind you I use marantz which is supposed to be on brighter side. And I found Bose & HK Sharper/brighter than that.

 

[BLASTO]

Mind you I use marantz which is supposed to be on brighter side. And I found Bose & HK Sharper/brighter than that.

Speakers can be very broadly divided into the below groups base on characteristics starting from less fatiguing to more..
Less fatiguing also means not accurate BTW (Or rounded off)..

Soft -- Laid Back -- Neutral/Monitor -- Forward sounding -- Harsh.

In that order..

Some systems fail to fall in any of the groups in this grouping.. For eg: Sony/Bose I find both laid back and harsh which defies logic. Only explanation is that a lot of frequencies are missing (meaning there are a lot of frequency wells in the response curve)

 

[gobble]

Hi,
Today I visited Forum mall Bangalore.
For the first time, I got a chance to listen to Bose. Heard 2 systems. First the passive 2.1 system costing 22.5k connected to Yamaha receiver. Second, somethiting with 3*2*1 in its name. Costing 79K. It had active sub and DVD Player.
Frankly speaking, I did not like what i heard. Could not even listen to full song 'bahon ke darmiya'(Khamoshi) which is one of my favorites and on my system i can listen to 3-4 times continuously. It was too sharp for my taste.
Now off topic, I heard Harman Kardon 3490 stereo amp with JBL( Studio series) towers. Even that was too sharp for my tastes.
Later in the same mall, i heard a samsung 5.1 home theatre (with blue ray player and 5 towers). Costing 45k. Heard it in 2.1 mode. It was much better than both HK-JBL & Bose at least for my tastes.
Mind you I use marantz which is supposed to be on brighter side. And I found Bose & HK Sharper/brighter than that.

Oink!! I was there too! If only you had pinged me before coming .... :sad:
I never found Bose fatiguing BTW, only lacking in timbre and sounding artificial. Yet they play the chimes very strikingly - I've "pricked my ears" and taken notice in multiple showrooms and both the systems were ... Bose ... Bose... Bose... hyeah:

--G0bble

 

[deba]

Bose has developed excellent brand imaging over the years. First of all Bose is not an audiophile system. Its for non critical lstening. They keep the price high so that every home doesnt have a Bose and thats "brand elevation" (like apple).

If you are looking for real Audio Quality with no brand appeal then go for other brands.They surely sound better than Bose.

I saw people liking the sound of Bose Speakers better than B&W or liking the sound of Bose Companion or Lifestyle better than those McIntosh or Audio Research amps - thats what I call brand promotion !! Bose Wins !!

 

[nindo]

Read through the thread right from the beginning, was really interesting...it just took off somewhere in between after gobble's star trek in a auto saga and then coming back more to serious discussions...

my view to the question is - its people who consider themselves audiophiles (people who are in the look out for a sound which is true to the original recording) generally hate or like to hate bose. I was really surprised to see some posts in this thread where people go ranting about various points like specifications, low frequency high frequency, JBL, yamaha, sony philips etc etc compared to bose...and suddenly in between say "though i have never listened to bose"!!!

that means, except for some who have actually auditioned many different brands including bose, most are just "feeling" audiophilic just because they have some not-so-popularly bought and and so called high end brands like onkyos, yamahas, marantzs etc etc and are a member of HFV (where you do gather a lot of theoretical knowledge from other's experiences)....and may be get a high by bose-bsahing...of course some credit of this goes to the thread name as well = hate bose.

further, if you see my signature i have a mix of all kinds of brands (well none really high end as some might consider)- yamaha, sonodyne, boso, grundign etc. i have heard the complete bose line up i would say and that to for quite a good amount of time - just drop into any bose showroom in mumbai and act like you got some serious money and looking for some high end sound.! and spend time there listing to everything on offer...

coming to the point..the starter of this thread was actually talking about the companion 5, which tough costing about 25k (really high for multimedia speakers)- which i think are really sweet sounding..well for an average music listener this would sound amazing - though when you are listening in a small space, even the bass sounds good. i agree with everyone who says the lifestyle series is bad for music/stereo. but when it comes to movies, i would say its not bad. of course if you have lack of space to place tower speakers. But the biggest selling /buying point is the "prestige" linked to owning a bose system. full marks to the bose marketing and distribution dept for this. though they are over prices not that good they sell like crazy- because others who claim are better than bose in that price range are nowhere to be seen. now any average joe who has wants to invest in a good music system and also probably has a ear for good sound will never know that there are better products available out there for his money - of course unless he finds HFV and becomes a member.!

We cannot blame bose or hate them for not giving out specs, pricing ridiculously etc cos they are visible, available and sound sweet to an average listener...period

 

[jaudere]

It was me who said 'though i have never heard Bose'

Most of my arguments were against people who hated it because of unavailability of specs (so indirectly in favor of Bose).
Yesterday for the first time in life i heard bose. That is why i thought that it is prudent i put my observations here.
@Gobble: it was unplanned visit. I was on official trip to b'lore.
By the way have you heard active stereo speakers (Arko by company calle Circle). It is in the shop called landscape 2nd floor. Tell me your impressions. It seems to be good option for 8k. The shop is not good place for audition but still give it a try.

 

[gobble]

It was me who said 'though i have never heard Bose'

Most of my arguments were against people who hated it because of unavailability of specs (so indirectly in favor of Bose).
Yesterday for the first time in life i heard bose. That is why i thought that it is prudent i put my observations here.
@Gobble: it was unplanned visit. I was on official trip to b'lore.
By the way have you heard active stereo speakers (Arko by company calle Circle). It is in the shop called landscape 2nd floor. Tell me your impressions. It seems to be good option for 8k. The shop is not good place for audition but still give it a try.

@Jaudere, I am going there by thursday to return a non readable CD I purchased yesterday (Rod steward unplugged). If I am not getting too late for office, I will check it out.

@Nindo yes you have some points about psychology influencing the Bose Bashing. But that applies to every product preference. Maybe some people just love to go a little overboard with Bose.


I think the rant over the lack of specs was just another little thing to hate Bose for, and not because...

--G0bble

 

[jaudere]

Listened to Bose 301 series v book shelves. Quite ok but overpriced at 17.8k. Better price could be 11k. They were paired with denon 1500 amp.

By the way their 901 was on display but malfunctioning.God knows how a supposed to be flagship model costing more than 1 lakh that too in so called high end show room was kept like that.
But at least he told me that in advance.

 

[anm]

maybe he thought it is too high end to play for potential customers.

 

[Essarr]

Apparently there is something about Bose products that people don't like. In 1982, I had a Bose car audio (4 speakers system with an equalizer/amp) installed in my car. Two weeks later, the Bose system was removed and the original Becker Mexico (2 speaker system) was re-installed. The sound of the Bose was unbearably harsh sounding.

On the home front, a pair of 901 (their flagship in those days) was installed during late '80s. I have to admit that the sound was good (clean, spacious and open), and I could have lived with it. But it had to go because of placement problems in my listening room.

Another product, the Bose 301, did front and rear L/R duties in a Marantz based home-theater front. However, the home-theater idea was short lived and it was back to regular two channel music. A pair of 301 did well for music too, but I had better speaker for audio (Yamaha NS-1000M and B&W 801).

So, not all Bose is bad and I am not looking at price-to-performance ratios. I think it has to do with their Acoustimass/Lifestyle products that impresses a first time listener with the scale-to-size ratio, but gets to be a bit tiring on long listens. If you have a chance to listen to Henry Kloss' radio (Tivoli Audio now) and the Bose Wave radio, you will find one is warm and rounded (colored and valve-like, yes) and other gutsy and brash.

 

[deba]

The only Bose product I liked was the 301 and even the 201 for small room......rest all are useless.....I didnt lke their HT system much.....

Recently Bose has released sound dock and computer speakers at much reasonable price ...maybe their sale figure is not that impressive now.....

 

[Ravee_nk]

One man's meat another man's poison! No hating Bose. Yes it is a closed system and has those limitations (some will say advantages) I had paid a fortune to get hold of Lifestyle 28 when Bose came to India first time. The issues I faced while enjoying the wonderful quality of sound were (1) their service level was low when they started; got better later (2) lot of dvds will not play; very fussy player (3) you can not make finer adjustments based on your ears; it is a black box.... Imho yes one can start with Bose but then you move on.....

 

[soulforged]

Like many, I also started my journey with the belief that Bose (and Monster) are the apogee of hi-end systems. I used to regularly go to their demos in the CP showroom to be 'surprised' at the end when they removed the big boxes to reveal the smaller systems underneath (and to talk to a particularly attractive sales person ). Bose was what I wanted to own some day...

One day (helped by an article in India Today) I decided to go for a cheaper, system-for-lesser-mortals stuff till I earn enough to own a Bose. The article led me to one elderly gentleman called Mr. Nakra of the Enbee fame. When I listened to his cheap, local system with cheap, local cables, I attained Bodhisatva!

Then I began to get used to BodhisatvOfying myself time and again - NAD, Wharfies even el-cheapo Jamos sounded better than the own-me-if-you-can Bose. Later I added B&O and Nakamichi to this list as well....

Long story short - Yes, most of the people resort to pseudo-intellectual jingoism by bad mouthing these brands. How else can you be considered a guru? If you can criticize Sachin Tendulkar's batting technique, you are a guru. If you worship him for what he has achieved, you are just a crazed fan...QED.

However, there are a few of us, who discourage others from going for Bose due to personal experience and we are not completly off our mark. Bose, like someone else mentioned here, is not an audiophile product. It is a lifestyle brand. It is bought by people to adorn their living rooms, usually not be people who have carved out a listening room out of their basement.

All said and done, what you can't take away from such brands is their marketing genius. If other brands could do even half of what they've done, the world would be a better sounding place. That Q keeps bugging me, Why couldn't NAD (Just an example) do the same???

My $0.02...

 

[thatguy]

A Jewish friend once told me his opinion of Arabs. Went something like this:

"I don't hate the Arabs, I also don't hate snakes and scorpions. I only like to give each the treatment they deserve."

Its the same with Bose. No one hates it. I get a feeling the OP is being disingenuous. Does he believe that people buy competitor's products to spite Bose?

 

[gobble]

A Jewish friend once told me his opinion of Arabs. Went something like this:

"I don't hate the Arabs, I also don't hate snakes and scorpions. I only like to give each the treatment they deserve."

Its the same with Bose. No one hates it. I get a feeling the OP is being disingenuous. Does he believe that people buy competitor's products to spite Bose?

I think its just English usage in a non-english country.

--G0bble

 

[tryst]

Bose has good aesthetics but doesn't feature in big league.They cram everything into small packages.