Worth going for Upgrade? from Wharfy to Polk/Klipsch/KEF

[ankitbhargava]

Hi

Its been almost an year I am living on the Wharfedale Obsidian 600 Package and Velodyne Impact 12 (bought sometime back). My Room size is almost 16 X 18. I am 80% into movies and 20% into Music. Mostly I play bollywood music and sometime instrumental fusion. I do not like playing Music on this setup so I could not even use it for more than 20%

I have been thinking to upgrade to next level, reason
1. I am not finding the present system to be that "impactful" while watching movies. That throw and punch which hits your chest is clearly missing.

2. Even after several adjustments in placements, configuration/settings etc I have not been able to achieve that impressive sound.

3. Last week I auditioned Polk RTi A7 in Ahmedabad and I became more sure that I need at upgrade out of the expectations I have got.

Have been talking to few friends, reading reviews, talking to HT suppliers and so far I have shortlisted this

Polk Audio
RTi A7 / A9
CSi A6
FXi A6


KEF
Q700 / Q900
Q200 C
Q800ds


Klipsch
RF 62 II
Not sure about Center and surrounds

Not planning to replace Sub though unless its imperative to match rest of the system.

As far as Budget goes, my angle is more towards "getting value" out of whatever I spend and this should last atleast next 3 years

Need all your help to first of all even decide weather this upgrade is required? Is there a possibility I have not seen full potential of my existing setup? If upgrade is worth, which brand and series is most promising without going overboard to unnecessarily spending money.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Just to add,

I am not really "disappointed" with existing setup as such, this HT creates a good sound stage... all speakers together are in sync to create a good environment, harmony and overall experience specially to those ears who have not graduated to Hifi.

 

[Rupam]

I have a different type of suggestion for you. "The throw and punch which hits your chest is clearly missing" this particular thing is often comes from a good 5.1 pre matched package. Like Bowers & Wilkins MT-5. They lab timber match all the drivers and as a package they are built for HT. I just request you to take a demo of Q Acoustics 2000i 5.1.or Bowers & Wilkins MT-5 or Monitor Audio MASS. If you audition these let me know.

 

[ankitbhargava]

I have a different type of suggestion for you. "The throw and punch which hits your chest is clearly missing" this particular thing is often comes from a good 5.1 pre matched package. Like Bowers & Wilkins MT-5. They lab timber match all the drivers and as a package they are built for HT. I just request you to take a demo of Q Acoustics 2000i 5.1.or Bowers & Wilkins MT-5 or Monitor Audio MASS. If you audition these let me know.

Thanks,
any idea where to audition and what is approx prices for these options?

BTW Obsidian 600 also came as a pre matched 5.0

 

[tanmayj]

What amp are you using? I checked out the wharfes specs - they are reasonably powerful... and I am using the impact 12 - its a terrific sub...

 

[ankitbhargava]

What amp are you using? I checked out the wharfes specs - they are reasonably powerful... and I am using the impact 12 - its a terrific sub...

Sorry, forgot to mention that
I am using Denon 2113 CI, am sure this would not need a replacement to drive the next upgrade I am looking for.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Here is the Link to check Wharfedale Obsidian 600 specs Product Series - Products - Wharfedale Hi-Fi

 

[Premblr]

This has been repeated many times in this forum, Polks do well for movies especially with Denon.

 

[Rupam]

Another option is to treat the room acoustically. Because most of our HT rooms are also living/bed make sure that the walls absorp sound instead of reflecting.

Elimination of early reflections ...
the point is to reduce the amount of early reflections that will reach you only a few MS after the direct sound

the small gap that can be achieved will extremely widen the soundstage and the impression of spaciousness will be enchanced

if you have normal front firing loudpspeakers you can imagine the sound "rays" ( it's waves but for the purpose here we will use rays ) going out from the speakers in all directions at the same time.. a part of thoose will reach you directly while some others will bounce on the different walls and objects then reflect and reach you..

what you need to do is use absorbant material ( rug, carpet, accoustical absorbants, drapes....etc..) to reduce thoose sound rays at the maximum
possible. you need to figure the angles at wich the sound will reach you from the speakers themselves ( you can use a complementive angle calculation for the reflection of early sounds )
easy way to do this is to use a mirror, sit in your listening position and move the mirror on the surface. let's say the floor, and note the locations where u can see the speakers in the mirror ( should get something like a 2'X2" in front of you on both walls, the ceiling and the floor )

you then need to apply the absorbant material to thoose areas exceding a little the boundaries of the reflection areas ( ex: using a 6' by 4' carpet on the floor in front of you will take care of all the floor early reflections )

all this will help creating spaciousness from your 2 main speakers ..
the rest of the reflected sound will arrive alot later ( like the sound reflecting of the front wall behind the speakers or on the rear wall before going abck at you ) and it will be reduced in intesity enough to have the desired effect ( if you don't have too bad room resonnance modes )

this will also help removing some of the sound coloration that we usually get in small home rooms .

 

[Shivam]

You need good acoustic treatment of your room and then a careful placing of your speakers. If you need good punch then you need to just change your subwoofer.

 

[safire2k8]

My suggestion is check whether the speakers are producing enough details for you if yes you need to change the subwoofer look for sub's like SVS PB-1000 or PB12 NSD or Velodyne EQMAX-12 they are very powerful and gets you the punch factor.If not getting details change the speakers.and also check your subwoofer is producing room filling bass.Acoustic treatment to the room also improves the sound stage.

 

[ankitbhargava]

You need good acoustic treatment of your room and then a careful placing of your speakers. If you need good punch then you need to just change your subwoofer.

Thats the reason I bought Velodyne Impact 12 and I was under impression that its going add lot of value to overall bass reproduction. In the highly punchy songs where Beats should be felt hitting right ... go pretty modest.

I played with Sub placements and config too but so far nothing helped, either its boomy or very modest. While a precise Bass is appreciated but the scenes like Gun Shots / Explosions miss out throttling the excitement.

Regarding Acoustic treatment, I believe I am doing decent on this count. Wall opposite to FS are 60% covered with Curtains, Right wall has a wooden Almira covering whole of it, Left Wall is plain, wall behind also has curtains on side.

I shall post few Pictures of Setup to give a better idea. Can certainly work on Acoustics then based on suggestions from all you Gurus

My suggestion is check whether the speakers are producing enough details for you if yes you need to change the subwoofer look for sub's like SVS PB-1000 or PB12 NSD or Velodyne EQMAX-12 they are very powerful and gets you the punch factor.If not getting details change the speakers.and also check your subwoofer is producing room filling bass.Acoustic treatment to the room also improves the sound stage.

I believe its justified to give 8/10 for the detailing of sound these Speakers are producing.

Another option is to treat the room acoustically. Because most of our HT rooms are also living/bed make sure that the walls absorp sound instead of reflecting.

Elimination of early reflections ...
the point is to reduce the amount of early reflections that will reach you only a few MS after the direct sound

the small gap that can be achieved will extremely widen the soundstage and the impression of spaciousness will be enchanced

if you have normal front firing loudpspeakers you can imagine the sound "rays" ( it's waves but for the purpose here we will use rays ) going out from the speakers in all directions at the same time.. a part of thoose will reach you directly while some others will bounce on the different walls and objects then reflect and reach you..

what you need to do is use absorbant material ( rug, carpet, accoustical absorbants, drapes....etc..) to reduce thoose sound rays at the maximum
possible. you need to figure the angles at wich the sound will reach you from the speakers themselves ( you can use a complementive angle calculation for the reflection of early sounds )
easy way to do this is to use a mirror, sit in your listening position and move the mirror on the surface. let's say the floor, and note the locations where u can see the speakers in the mirror ( should get something like a 2'X2" in front of you on both walls, the ceiling and the floor )

you then need to apply the absorbant material to thoose areas exceding a little the boundaries of the reflection areas ( ex: using a 6' by 4' carpet on the floor in front of you will take care of all the floor early reflections )

all this will help creating spaciousness from your 2 main speakers ..
the rest of the reflected sound will arrive alot later ( like the sound reflecting of the front wall behind the speakers or on the rear wall before going abck at you ) and it will be reduced in intesity enough to have the desired effect ( if you don't have too bad room resonnance modes )

this will also help removing some of the sound coloration that we usually get in small home rooms .

Thanks for all the expert advise! useful indeed and I shall certainly work on this. Shall post pictures of setup shortly for a better understanding.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Shot diagonally from either side of Rooms, sorry for the bit mess up . Hope this gives a better idea.

TV to small seater is about 9 feet, Seater to the back wall is about 8 feet, Seater to surround speakers is about 10 feet.

 

[Rupam]

Well, thanks for pics.

1. Surrounds are placed quite low. Surrounds should be mounted
400mm and 1.5m above ear level and preferably on the side walls but always behind
the listener. If mounting the surrounds on the side walls is not feasible they may be mounted on the rear walls between 2.5-3.5 metres apart, central to the listening position and 400mm - 1.5m.

2. Your HT arrangement is not good. You need to use the length of the room to watch movies. Can you put the on the wall side where you have put the crib of your child.

3. Use a carpet.

4. If you can, angle the rear speakers so that they will be pointed toward the center seating position of the couch. You will get a better surround sound effect this way.

5. Read it, but don't bang your head on the wall while crawling ! Subwoofer Placement Guidelines | Audioholics

6. Try to put a blanket on the rear wall to add some decoration in the living room.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Well, thanks for pics.

1. Surrounds are placed quite low. Surrounds should be mounted
400mm and 1.5m above ear level and preferably on the side walls but always behind
the listener. If mounting the surrounds on the side walls is not feasible they may be mounted on the rear walls between 2.5-3.5 metres apart, central to the listening position and 400mm - 1.5m.

2. Your HT arrangement is not good. You need to use the length of the room to watch movies. Can you put the on the wall side where you have put the crib of your child.

3. Use a carpet.

4. If you can, angle the rear speakers so that they will be pointed toward the center seating position of the couch. You will get a better surround sound effect this way.

5. Read it, but don't bang your head on the wall while crawling ! Subwoofer Placement Guidelines | Audioholics

6. Try to put a blanket on the rear wall to add some decoration in the living room.

1. I have provision to wall mount on back wall and thats almost 1.5 meters above ear level. Shall try that

2. It may not look like but the Room is almost square, do you mean the seating should be more farther from Screen? I can manage that by Moving Bed towards Crib side and pulling back the Seating touching the back wall.

3. Yes thats surely on the List

4. Yes with those Stands I actually adjust them to point diagonally towards the seating.

5. pretty helpful, I have tried that earlier

Thanks again for suggestions

 

[ankitbhargava]

Guys, some progress

Had been thinking of Bi amping to use the unused Amp of 7.1
Just did a quick job to bi-amp and guess what? I can already see atleast 30% improvement in overall throw ... the Fronts are performing much better. Bass has gone impressive than earlier.

 

[madbullram]

Good to see you are getting some improvement. If possible check if you can audition with a more powerful amp.

Also, use the " Multi Quote feature" when replying to multiple posts.

 

[Vinod.R]

I thought this suggestion may sound a bit silly, but what about replacing the two rears with the same type of floor standers as the fronts?

Room coverage would be more and stereo sound would definitely improve. Drivers would also be timber matched.

Then try using the "all channel stereo" mode and see if you get what you are missing?

Vinod

 

[Santy]

It seems you have shot the pic using a wide angle lens. What are the dimensions of the room? Sub needs better placement. They usually work great when placed close to the corners (quarter space). But if the room is big and if placement doesn't improve the sound, you may need an upgrade. No issues with the layout of the HT per se, except that the surrounds are too far from the listening position. Height is not a major issue. The punch you are missing can be also due to the limitations of your speakers. You can consider Klipsch RF 62ii which you have mentioned along with RC 52ii and RS 42ii. There are many other option in that price range. Don't even consider satellite speaker packages. As for as sub is concerned, you can go for a sub from SVS like PB12 plus or import Rythmik FV15HP.

 

[ghatgepatil]

Must say, a massive bedroom!
I think use of higher powered speakers or speakers with more sensitivity @ >90 dB should do the trick. You must be experiencing a bit low-down on the sound, I guess, even with a quite capable AVR.