300b amps

Quick question. When you play at lower volumes, because of the simple design of SET, even if the power is very low, you tend to hear more of the attack, sustain and decay of the notes which makes micro dynamics sound amazing and more complete. If so, I agree.

I wish I could get the 300b SET sound in a 60 watt x 2 package but only weigh 25 kg in total :-) Wishful thinking...I know.

Taken from an article by Thorsten Loesch (AMR designer)

It should be noted that the absence of negative feedback and the usually very
soft clipping in singleended valve amplifiers will allow short peaks to
overdrive the Amplifier quite notably, without the usual unpleasant
side-effects of very nasty audible distortion. The perception is often
of slightly reduced peak dynamics, but usually no distortion is
perceived as long as the overload is very momentarily. This effect
explains the audiophile phrase that Valve (or Tube) Watts are
"bigger" than Transistor Watts. They are not. But an overloaded
transistor amplifier will "latch up" (go into saturation) and thus take a
relatively long time (as much as a few 100uS) to recover from
transient overloads. The distortion on clipping is socially VERY
unpleasant. As a result even brief peaks that exceed the Power-Limit
of the Amplifier (say 50W) will sound subjectively distorted.
In an singleended valve amplifier it is however possible to overdrive
the Amplifier with brief peaks by as much as 10db before the
distortion becomes audible. That means that everything else being

equal, a 5W singleended amplifier without loop-feedback might be
played subjectively as loud as a 50W transistor amplifier using

loopfeedback
 
Last edited by a moderator:
How close does a single amplifier with 300B tube as a driver and 805/845 as power tube will sound to a 300B amplifier?
I personally have never heard a 300B driver tube with 805/845 tube. But it is often said that an amplifier will carry sound signature of driver tube. So I want to know how it is in reality.
It is a misconception. While a driver tube will add some of its character, the sound of the amp is predominantly decided by the final output device which is handling the speaker. No matter how many tubes one adds to an SS amp at the input, the amp will sound like SS, may be with more color and bloom but the drive is like SS. Same with tube amps, the driver does a lot of work to ensure adequate current and voltage to the output tubes but final sound will mimic the character of the output tube primarily. So a 845 will sound like a 845, nothing like a real 300B amp
 
Dr Bass, i just don’t think the 300 tube amp is cut out for a modern Tannoy.

Our point of disagreement is that.

It’s not whether a Tannoy is good or bad or a 300 tube amp is good or bad

I would take the neutrality of a ATC over a modern Tannoy. And when i say modern, it’s what’s available today. Yours are probably over two decades old.

You know i was considering a vintage, original GRF. But even there you know i was recommended a 100 watt CH Precison amp.

The only Tannoy that really works with a 10 watt amp is the Cornetta. We both know that too :)
 
HI Prem,

Cornetta, is just the cabinet design. There is a Japanese Cornetta that has a front loaded horn and bass reflex cabinet and another UK(?) version that is a scaled down version of the Rectangular GRF for the 10 inch Tannoys. Which Cornetta are you referring to?

Also Cornetta cabinets are loaded with either Red or Gold drivers .

I never felt the lack of power driving the 15 inch Tannoy Monitor Golds with the 10 watt Leak or Quad amps. The 2A3 sounds good a low volumes but 3 watts just doesn't cut it. The 6 watt 2A3 push pull to is not sufficient.


Regards
Rajiv

Dr Bass, i just don’t think the 300 tube amp is cut out for a modern Tannoy.

Our point of disagreement is that.

It’s not whether a Tannoy is good or bad or a 300 tube amp is good or bad

I would take the neutrality of a ATC over a modern Tannoy. And when i say modern, it’s what’s available today. Yours are probably over two decades old.

You know i was considering a vintage, original GRF. But even there you know i was recommended a 100 watt CH Precison amp.

The only Tannoy that really works with a 10 watt amp is the Cornetta. We both know that too :)

You know i was considering a vintage, original GRF. But even there you know i was recommended a 100 watt CH Precison amp.

The only Tannoy that really works with a 10 watt amp is the Cornetta. We both know that too :)

Hi,



Regards
Rajiv
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wow! I'm happy that this thread has woken up all the legends in this forum :-). Please keep it coming so that we may learn!

I had a long chat last night with @Dr.Bass and it turns out the best option is to get a 300b parallel SET which works well with WE.

Need to identify the right amplifiers. Now the hunt begins...

View attachment 92194
Sacthailand makes these. I know a manufacturer who loves their products. Not very popular in the mainstream media but very popular among the underground circles. 3 to 6 months order time. No idea about price. But still just 17 watts max per monoblock. And 30 kg per monoblock.
This amp seems incredible at least from the tubes used and the parts in question! Now I wonder how does it sound.
 
Rajiv, i was referring to the original Cornetta in the mini GRF box. Not the Japanese one. Soneone Dr Bass and I know well was mentioning that the original Cornetta with the 10 in Red driver was the only Tannoy model that could he comfortably driven with a 10 watt amp
 
Rajiv, i was referring to the original Cornetta in the mini GRF box. Not the Japanese one. Soneone Dr Bass and I know well was mentioning that the original Cornetta with the 10 in Red driver was the only Tannoy model that could he comfortably driven with a 10 watt amp
Prem, Tannoy Reds and earlier models have lighter cones and are more efficient than Golds and later. 10 watts is ample power to drive them.

Golds work well with 10 watts but 20/30 watt EL34 amps make them really come alive.

Regards
Rajiv
 
Maybe as a best case I can get a parallel 300b for extra headroom but then the cost of tubes becomes crazy.
What bias current for the parallel 300b are you expecting? Maybe i can design one for you. The difficulty for a parallel design is never the tube, but getting an OPT that can handle the bias current. So it becomes a custom design OPT and not of the shelf.
 
Dr Bass, i just don’t think the 300 tube amp is cut out for a modern Tannoy.

Our point of disagreement is that.

It’s not whether a Tannoy is good or bad or a 300 tube amp is good or bad

I would take the neutrality of a ATC over a modern Tannoy. And when i say modern, it’s what’s available today. Yours are probably over two decades old.

You know i was considering a vintage, original GRF. But even there you know i was recommended a 100 watt CH Precison amp.

The only Tannoy that really works with a 10 watt amp is the Cornetta. We both know that too :)


Hello Prem (and any others that might have a lurking curiosity or an abiding interest in this topic / discussion) -

I extremely seldom write / post here but on this occasion, without meaning to appear adversarial or hostile, I'd like to disagree
politely with the statement -

"The only Tannoy that really works with a 10 watt amp is the Cornetta......."

I'll tell you WHY:

from REAL, first-hand, almost daily experience and use / listening - I own 2 pairs of vintage Tannoy rectangular GRFs (a 3rd will "arrive" here early next month !) - I power them BOTH alternatively with - a) a humble vintage QUAD II valve power amp (rated for max. 12~15 W on a good day); and, b) a vintage 1980 HITACHI MosFET power amp (rated for a respectable 70 W / Rms per channel). With BOTH my pairs of the mighty Tannoy GRFs and both alternatively powered by either the modest powered Quad OR even the Hitachi "using" less than 5 W during most listening sessions, I can never turn up the volume much beyond the 9 or 9:30 level on the pre-amp's volume control. By then, the "sound" (music output) is already SCARY loud - the house-help from the building across gleefully smile, my children rush out from their rooms shrieking that MY music is drowning out their's emanating from THEIR headphones as they listen to their "junk" (music !) on their respective phones through their headphones and my wife cautions me that the neighbours will soon arrive at our door and pound it - saying "music tho-daa slow kaa-roe...." OR our in-line home intercom will soon start ringing (but alas we wouldn't hear it in any case !) as the neighbours begin complaining that they cannot view TV in their own homes ! This was just a mirthful and lighthearted creation of a scenario that could easily be precipitated - the bit about our children complaining and my wife cautioning and admonishing me and the trio of househelp from the next door building craning their necks and vicariously enjoying the music from well over 50 m away is a regular occurence though !

The point of the above IS to illustrate and hopefully convince any nay-sayers or less than credulous ones that for the bigger Tannoys (15") in the larger and more complex (horn loaded) enclosures - a mere 3 to 5 watts is almost always sufficient to already reach uncomfortably loud sound pressure levels - any more would be fool-hardy and "destructive" to the speakers, your own hearing AND would serve to very quickly sour good neighbourly relations unless you live on a ranch of 500 acres in rural Wyoming or Texas !

So, just as my humble 2 pence's worth of comment and attempt to both enlighten and highlight the slight inaccuracy in the comment -

"The only Tannoy that really works with a 10 watt amp is the Cornetta........."

The above is NOT true..........I can vouch for it being an actual, regular user and listener - so much so that I now NO longer regret having sold my beefy, muscular, vintage 1955 McIntosh MC-60 tube amps (rated at 60 W per channel) - I am getting by just fine with amps that put out less than 20% of their brawl and am, truly, missing nothing or definitely NOT much ! I have learned and can attest to it that IF you have the mighty old vintage Tannoy GRFs in your system and IN your home, you can easily get by and be satisfied with "minimal" wattage amps of possibly even single digit power output - the key is to have nice, clean, warm and stable power - I experience THIS fact every day !

I close by already apologizing and asking to be excused from any likely retribution IF I have inadvertently and unbeknownst stepped or tread on anyone's (musical) toes here ! Peace.

Sincerely,

Ronnie K. Marker
 
Similar experience. My latest build is 4.5 wpc, two stage, a kind of hybrid Pentode (my own cooking, no feedback) 6BG6 SE driven by 6N2P, onboard volume controls, dual monoblock, driven directly from DAC, (no preamp), cannot clock over 50% volume, drives my BS 88dB at crazy loudness or my big open baffles at just 30% volume. And it's my lowest power SE build out of a dozen others.

Yes, custom winding iron around a tube or custom designing around the irons to fit the optimal tube, brings the best out of a tube amp.
 
This amp seems incredible at least from the tubes used and the parts in question! Now I wonder how does it sound.
Siva knows the guy personally. Talk to him.

Hello Prem (and any others that might have a lurking curiosity or an abiding interest in this topic / discussion) -

I extremely seldom write / post here but on this occasion, without meaning to appear adversarial or hostile, I'd like to disagree
politely with the statement -

"The only Tannoy that really works with a 10 watt amp is the Cornetta......."

I'll tell you WHY:

from REAL, first-hand, almost daily experience and use / listening - I own 2 pairs of vintage Tannoy rectangular GRFs (a 3rd will "arrive" here early next month !) - I power them BOTH alternatively with - a) a humble vintage QUAD II valve power amp (rated for max. 12~15 W on a good day); and, b) a vintage 1980 HITACHI MosFET power amp (rated for a respectable 70 W / Rms per channel). With BOTH my pairs of the mighty Tannoy GRFs and both alternatively powered by either the modest powered Quad OR even the Hitachi "using" less than 5 W during most listening sessions, I can never turn up the volume much beyond the 9 or 9:30 level on the pre-amp's volume control. By then, the "sound" (music output) is already SCARY loud - the house-help from the building across gleefully smile, my children rush out from their rooms shrieking that MY music is drowning out their's emanating from THEIR headphones as they listen to their "junk" (music !) on their respective phones through their headphones and my wife cautions me that the neighbours will soon arrive at our door and pound it - saying "music tho-daa slow kaa-roe...." OR our in-line home intercom will soon start ringing (but alas we wouldn't hear it in any case !) as the neighbours begin complaining that they cannot view TV in their own homes ! This was just a mirthful and lighthearted creation of a scenario that could easily be precipitated - the bit about our children complaining and my wife cautioning and admonishing me and the trio of househelp from the next door building craning their necks and vicariously enjoying the music from well over 50 m away is a regular occurence though !

The point of the above IS to illustrate and hopefully convince any nay-sayers or less than credulous ones that for the bigger Tannoys (15") in the larger and more complex (horn loaded) enclosures - a mere 3 to 5 watts is almost always sufficient to already reach uncomfortably loud sound pressure levels - any more would be fool-hardy and "destructive" to the speakers, your own hearing AND would serve to very quickly sour good neighbourly relations unless you live on a ranch of 500 acres in rural Wyoming or Texas !

So, just as my humble 2 pence's worth of comment and attempt to both enlighten and highlight the slight inaccuracy in the comment -

"The only Tannoy that really works with a 10 watt amp is the Cornetta........."

The above is NOT true..........I can vouch for it being an actual, regular user and listener - so much so that I now NO longer regret having sold my beefy, muscular, vintage 1955 McIntosh MC-60 tube amps (rated at 60 W per channel) - I am getting by just fine with amps that put out less than 20% of their brawl and am, truly, missing nothing or definitely NOT much ! I have learned and can attest to it that IF you have the mighty old vintage Tannoy GRFs in your system and IN your home, you can easily get by and be satisfied with "minimal" wattage amps of possibly even single digit power output - the key is to have nice, clean, warm and stable power - I experience THIS fact every day !

I close by already apologizing and asking to be excused from any likely retribution IF I have inadvertently and unbeknownst stepped or tread on anyone's (musical) toes here ! Peace.

Sincerely,

Ronnie K. Marker
If that is the model, it boasts a sensitivity of 95db which is quite high.
 
How close does a single amplifier with 300B tube as a driver and 805/845 as power tube will sound to a 300B amplifier?
I personally have never heard a 300B driver tube with 805/845 tube. But it is often said that an amplifier will carry sound signature of driver tube. So I want to know how it is in reality.
I have owned a 211 PP monoblocks with a 300b driver and a 300b SET mono blocks from the same brand at one point in time.

I liked the 300b SET better and sold the 211 PP, and can attest to what Drbass says -> The output tube matters more to the sound signature.

Attached below WE 300bs in action tonight on a Shindo Cortese 😊
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0984.jpeg
    IMG_0984.jpeg
    239.3 KB · Views: 1
A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
Back
Top