300b amps

[morerajendra5678]

I have owned a 211 PP monoblocks with a 300b driver and a 300b SET mono blocks from the same brand at one point in time.

I liked the 300b SET better and sold the 211 PP, and can attest to what Drbass says -> The output tube matters more to the sound signature.

I have not personally heard any amplifier with 300B as driver tube driving a non-300B output tube. But then if sound signature of Single Ended tube amplifier is all about output tube, why would tube amplifiers have a costly tube 300B in driver stage. Even Cary Audio has that in one of their models. A number of single ended tube amplifier models with 805/845 tube as output tube has 300B tube as driver tube.
So tube amplifier designers may be able to provide in-depth input on what one accomplishes by using 300B as driver tube and how.

 

[reignofchaos]

I have not personally heard any amplifier with 300B as driver tube driving a non-300B output tube. But then if sound signature of Single Ended tube amplifier is all about output tube, why would tube amplifiers have a costly tube 300B in driver stage. Even Cary Audio has that in one of their models. A number of single ended tube amplifier models with 805/845 tube as output tube has 300B tube as driver tube.
So tube amplifier designers may be able to provide in-depth input on what one accomplishes by using 300B as driver tube and how.

It's because 845/211 needs a lot of voltage swing to generate full power. The 300b can supply that without distorting.

 

[morerajendra5678]

It's because 845/211 needs a lot of voltage swing to generate full power. The 300b can supply that without distorting.

Audio note Jinro with 211 tube uses ECC82 (or 5814a) as driver tube. ECC82 costs a lot less. I am sure Audio note must have choosen the tubes so that it can drive 211 tube without distortion without opting for 300B, though they could have opted for 300B had there been no alternative. Since Audionote uses ECC82, I believe ECC82 is fully capable of driving 211 tube without going into distortion. So I believe there are more reasons to use of 300B other than the distortion factor.

 

[morerajendra5678]

Wavac HR-805 single ended Triode with 805 tube output 45 watts uses 6L6GC as driver tube. So there are driver tubes which can drive both 805 tubes and 211 tubes without costing as much as 300B tube.
No manufacturer would like to use a costly tube and increase the cost of the product when cheaper alternatives can be used. It would rather keep the costs down by using the cheaper alternative. So there is a reason 300B has been used.

 

[heliumflight]

I may be wrong here but from what I know so far, the 300B is a much more powerful tube than the 2A3. So, if one were to match appropriate speakers for both these types, would you still stand by your observation ?

Sometimes more is less. The art with which 2A3 plays with sensuality and finesse is like no other.

 

[square_wave]

Sometimes more is less. The art with which 2A3 plays with sensuality and finesse is like no other.

Sorry, you seem to have taken the question in a different perspective.

For context, two different types of tube amplifiers can exhibit distinct sound characteristics when paired with the same speaker in the same room. Typically, the speaker and the room may be more compatible with one amplifier than the other. Often, an audiophile who is enamoured with a particular speaker will build a system around it and experiment with different amplifiers. If the new amplifier lacks technical or artistic synergy with the speaker, it may produce a sound that the audiophile quickly dismisses, as they are convinced that the 'reference sound' is what they are accustomed to with their original amplifier. However, if you give that amplifier to another audiophile, they may build a system around it that produces astonishing results. I have witnessed this phenomenon repeatedly.

Usually it is dealers, installers or even audiophiles who try out different permutations and combinations who are painfully aware of this phenomenon.

 

[Hari Iyer]

I have not personally heard any amplifier with 300B as driver tube driving a non-300B output tube. But then if sound signature of Single Ended tube amplifier is all about output tube, why would tube amplifiers have a costly tube 300B in driver stage. Even Cary Audio has that in one of their models. A number of single ended tube amplifier models with 805/845 tube as output tube has 300B tube as driver tube.
So tube amplifier designers may be able to provide in-depth input on what one accomplishes by using 300B as driver tube and how.

A 300b can be used as a driver tube as it has a low mu. You can achieve a amplification factor close to the final tube requirement with a low mu pre-driver tube. But this has to be a 3 stage design though. The 211 final stage might be using the 300b as driver to get the tonal and dynamic benefits of the 300b an area where 211 might be lacking being over powered. The voltage swing of the pre-driver and driver combined would be close to 211 requirements.

 

[heliumflight]

Sorry, you seem to have taken the question in a different perspective.

For context, two different types of tube amplifiers can exhibit distinct sound characteristics when paired with the same speaker in the same room. Typically, the speaker and the room may be more compatible with one amplifier than the other. Often, an audiophile who is enamoured with a particular speaker will build a system around it and experiment with different amplifiers. If the new amplifier lacks technical or artistic synergy with the speaker, it may produce a sound that the audiophile quickly dismisses, as they are convinced that the 'reference sound' is what they are accustomed to with their original amplifier. However, if you give that amplifier to another audiophile, they may build a system around it that produces astonishing results. I have witnessed this phenomenon repeatedly.

Usually it is dealers, installers or even audiophiles who try out different permutations and combinations who are painfully aware of this phenomenon.

After living with various SET, speaker and DAC combinations, I’ve found that the 2A3 delivers the sound that pleases me most.

 

[heliumflight]

That's a different story why I don't live with a 2A3, as I need a 300b to power my Linn Keilidh.

Stereo HiFi Rig: Cambridge Audio Cxn v2 + Arcam airDac + Cyrus6dac / Elekit tu 8730 300b + ASI Live line power cable + ASI Live line Reference IC + Townsend Isolda speaker cables + Linn Keilidh speakers

 

[morerajendra5678]

That's a different story why I don't live with a 2A3, as I need a 300b to power my Linn Keilidh.

The choosen SET amplifier should be capable of driving the said speakers with a bit of headroom for the dynamics. Hence there are varieties of SET amplifier in the market with varying power. We mostly build our system around our speakers. So for us we choose the SET amplifier out of the lot which is capable of driving out speakers. And Best is the one which drove the speakers with authority as well as gave the flavour of a true SET amplifier.
Many current SET amplifiers tend to sound like solid state amplifier. Though they exhibit the authority over the speakers but lack that SET amplifier character.

 

[anilva]

Will add my own experience here FWIW:

I have a 300B SET amp custom built for me by Lyrita with 45 driver tube and WE 300B output with a Hashimoto output stage. The front end is a DHT pre from Lyrita.

I drive this setup to power Altec 515B LF in a half horn cabinet and Gaumont Kalee GK379 as HFs with a Azura horn. The crossover is a DIY first order. I have been very happy with the setup for many years now.

Tried this amplification combo to drive a Tannoy MG 15"/HPD15s in a slightly larger Arden cabinet. While it has been good, I reverted back to Pass Solid State amplification using a J2 amp. The drive and dynamics are much better with a more powerful SS Pass Amp.

So my conclusion has been that the 300B setup is very good to drive high efficiency horn systems while Tannoy pairs well with a Solid State amp with a bit more power. Obviously my observations are limited to my setup and my tastes and cannot be generalized.

Cheers
Anil

 

[morerajendra5678]

Will add my own experience here FWIW:

I have a 300B SET amp custom built for me by Lyrita with 45 driver tube and WE 300B output with a Hashimoto output stage. The front end is a DHT pre from Lyrita.

I drive this setup to power Altec 515B LF in a half horn cabinet and Gaumont Kalee GK379 as HFs with a Azura horn. The crossover is a DIY first order. I have been very happy with the setup for many years now.

Tried this amplification combo to drive a Tannoy MG 15"/HPD15s in a slightly larger Arden cabinet. While it has been good, I reverted back to Pass Solid State amplification using a J2 amp. The drive and dynamics are much better with a more powerful SS Pass Amp.

Tannoys + Leben a very good combination. This system is in service for last 10+ years...
Tannoys+ Parallel 300B SET .... One can live with this combination
Tannoys+ 845 SET .... You miss the midrange warmth but 845 tubes show lot of control over Tannoys.
This has been my experience. With the first 2 systems, you enjoy Jazz, Vocal centric music along with non-complex Bollywood music. But with the 3rd system, you get depth in complex Orchestra music, Rock and roll kind of music

 

[heliumflight]

The choosen SET amplifier should be capable of driving the said speakers with a bit of headroom for the dynamics. Hence there are varieties of SET amplifier in the market with varying power. We mostly build our system around our speakers. So for us we choose the SET amplifier out of the lot which is capable of driving out speakers. And Best is the one which drove the speakers with authority as well as gave the flavour of a true SET amplifier.
Many current SET amplifiers tend to sound like solid state amplifier. Though they exhibit the authority over the speakers but lack that SET amplifier character.

Yes, I agree we should first finalize on efficiency of speaker and then built SET amp around it.