A good 11-channel AVR vs a good 9-channel AVR +amp for 7.x.4 HT?

[Decadent_Spectre]

I'm no HT buff but give the people what they want.

 

[k-pad]

Dear all,
Guess what! The home minister had a stressful WFH day and walked into the man cave to listen to some of her music, and said: "Instead of doing everything in your room, why don't you put music all around the house and keep your room for movies?"
So, I guess the decision has been made.
I'll just do an HT in the spare room and move music to the living area (or "all around the house") and work on it next year.
And go with 9.2 AVR + a power amp for the HT.
Wish to thank you all for your advice and guidance: @Decadent_Spectre @Love4sound @prateekatasniya @sandeepmohan @efernand1
Much, much grateful! 🙏

 

[efernand1]

Dear all,
Guess what! The home minister had a stressful WFH day and walked into the man cave to listen to some of her music, and said: "Instead of doing everything in your room, why don't you put music all around the house and keep your room for movies?"
So, I guess the decision has been made.
I'll just do an HT in the spare room and move music to the living area (or "all around the house") and work on it next year.
And go with 9.2 AVR + a power amp for the HT.
Wish to thank you all for your advice and guidance: @Decadent_Spectre @Love4sound @prateekatasniya @sandeepmohan @efernand1
Much, much grateful! 🙏

Welcome! Happy to guide!

All the best!

 

[k-pad]

Get a AV processor and a couple of power amplifiers to do this properly and if you want to get some decent life out of the gear.
What I recommend is cost beneficial in the sense that, when you need to upgrade several years down the line, you can just flip the processor with a new one. Some brands let you flip the processor boards yourself so when Dolby Introduce their next sound field, its either a simple software or hardware upgrade. The power amplifiers stay the same.

Also; any decent AV receiver that can drive 11 channels will be upward of 300k INR. At this sort of price, you'd rather go separates and enjoy the benefits of a nice high current power amplifier from the likes of Monolith, Acurus, Emotiva, Adcom, etc.

The pro's of going with just one AVR is simplicity of the set up.
The con is that I don't think any AVR exists that can drive 9 or 11 channels by itself with any meaningful power output that will bring your speakers up to their full potential.

The pro's with separates.
The power amplifier section grows with the system no matter what changes on the processing front. This component stays untouched.
You split amplification. Drive 5 channels with one and the remaining with another power amplifier.
Far better sound. Your loudspeakers are likely to perform much better with cleaner current flowing to them and that means a better experience for you.

Con
A bit more expensive.

Hey, had to come back to this point one last time.
Even in a pure HT, will this be a better solution for a long term? For a fit it and forget it person?
As I mentioned before, from what I since read and what everyone says, 9-channel AVR + Power amp is a solution.
Let's say this costs 140K (Denon 3700) +80K (an Emotiva 2-channel PA) MRP = 210K.
A processor + power for all channels would cost how much in this instance?
And will that combo give better returns and more peace in the longer run?

 

[sandeepmohan]

A processor + power for all channels would cost how much in this instance?
And will that combo give better returns and more peace in the longer run?

To keep cost under check, you have no choice but go with a AVR + Power Amplifier. This option will set you back about 250K INR with an Outlaw 5000X (Or Emotiva 7 channel power amplifier).
A dedicated Processor + Power Amplifier solution will come to 400K INR, minimum!
Both the above solutions are a fit and forget sort of thing.
I'd just go with a AVR + Power amp solution. With the cash saved, get a nice LCR and a couple of Sub's if you like.
Instead of thinking about better returns and peace of mind, focus on sound quality instead.

 

[sud98]

No fan noise from equipment rack.
Projector kept in a projector hush box.
Low noise ducted air conditioning.
Sound proofed door

Where can i get a projector hush box? I have done other things, this is one thing thats irritating me.

 

[prateekatasniya]

Where can i get a projector hush box? I have done other things, this is one thing thats irritating me.

Ready ones are super expensive..
Diy is the only option.

If anyone is familiar with a branded one for decent price kindly share

 

[k-pad]

To keep cost under check, you have no choice but go with a AVR + Power Amplifier. This option will set you back about 250K INR with an Outlaw 5000X (Or Emotiva 7 channel power amplifier).
A dedicated Processor + Power Amplifier solution will come to 400K INR, minimum!
Both the above solutions are a fit and forget sort of thing.
I'd just go with a AVR + Power amp solution. With the cash saved, get a nice LCR and a couple of Sub's if you like.
Instead of thinking about better returns and peace of mind, focus on sound quality instead.

Will do, thanks

 

[ankitbhargava]

Hey, had to come back to this point one last time.
Even in a pure HT, will this be a better solution for a long term? For a fit it and forget it person?
As I mentioned before, from what I since read and what everyone says, 9-channel AVR + Power amp is a solution.
Let's say this costs 140K (Denon 3700) +80K (an Emotiva 2-channel PA) MRP = 210K.
A processor + power for all channels would cost how much in this instance?
And will that combo give better returns and more peace in the longer run?

why not AVR + Emotiva BasX A7 to power 7 channels if the Room is not very large?
Amping the LR for Movies is no fun, it should rather start from Center and then to LR if there is a choice.
BasX A7 would be little over your PA budget but would be future proof if you later decide to upgrade LCR with more powerful amps and also use Atmos Channels. It will also help you using AVR as Processor only and probably aid to its longer life.

 

[k-pad]

why not AVR + Emotiva BasX A7 to power 7 channels if the Room is not very large?
Amping the LR for Movies is no fun, it should rather start from Center and then to LR if there is a choice.
BasX A7 would be little over your PA budget but would be future proof if you later decide to upgrade LCR with more powerful amps and also use Atmos Channels. It will also help you using AVR as Processor only and probably aid to its longer life.

Can definitely look into going this route, Ankit.
In fact, @sandeepmohan, if I am not wrong, made a great point earlier - that the satellites could end up being power hungry.
Considering that I am a) becoming a bit pigheaded by the day about wanting to try 7.x.4 in a small room, and b) while also wanting to cheap out on the atmos speakers and probably the rear surrounds, I think what you say here might have a lot of merit. Will check...
Would you be able to help with how an AVR's power is used when paired with a power amp? (Of course, will do my own bit of reading up...)
1. What happens to the unused channels of an AVR?
2. If I use a power amp into a pre-out, does the power amp fully feed the channel, or does an AVR give out whatever power it is generally putting out on that channel? I think this will have something to do with the power rail, will read up too.
Thanks a lot.
Cheers

 

[ankitbhargava]

Can definitely look into going this route, Ankit.
In fact, @sandeepmohan, if I am not wrong, made a great point earlier - that the satellites could end up being power hungry.
Considering that I am a) becoming a bit pigheaded by the day about wanting to try 7.x.4 in a small room, and b) while also wanting to cheap out on the atmos speakers and probably the rear surrounds, I think what you say here might have a lot of merit. Will check...
Would you be able to help with how an AVR's power is used when paired with a power amp? (Of course, will do my own bit of reading up...)
1. What happens to the unused channels of an AVR?
2. If I use a power amp into a pre-out, does the power amp fully feed the channel, or does an AVR give out whatever power it is generally putting out on that channel? I think this will have something to do with the power rail, will read up too.
Thanks a lot.
Cheers

All of us are pigheaded here that way :-D
AFAIK,
1. Available amp power is used for whichever speakers are taken care by the AVR
2. Yes the Power Amp could be used to its full potential depending upon how power hungry the speakers are and what levels they shall be played to.

Powering 7 Channels in a small Room should outperform the immersive experience what powering 3 Channels could do, again a lot depends upon Room size/ How far you sit from speakers / what master volume do you enjoy the sound at etc.

However 95W each channel of Emotiva BasX A7 should be sufficient in small/mid sized Rooms.

 

[k-pad]

All of us are pigheaded here that way :-D

good to know am not alone in this.

AFAIK,
1. Available amp power is used for whichever speakers are taken care by the AVR
2. Yes the Power Amp could be used to its full potential depending upon how power hungry the speakers are and what levels they shall be played to.

That's great.

Powering 7 Channels in a small Room should outperform the immersive experience what powering 3 Channels could do,

Well put. Immersion and a sense of envelopment is what I was looking for if I went the whole hog. Powering LCR with an amp and the peripherals with the AVR's power will not help?

again a lot depends upon Room size/ How far you sit from speakers / what master volume do you enjoy the sound at etc.

10x12/hoping to do 6 to 7 feet listening distance.../and 75-85 dB for movies is what it will ideally be on a day-to-day average...

However 95W each channel of Emotiva BasX A7 should be sufficient in small/mid sized Rooms.

Sounds like it definitely will.

But, did you experience better immersion and envelopment with a power amp for all ear-level channels and AVR only for heights? Is it that much of a night and day difference?

 

[k-pad]

Ready ones are super expensive..
Diy is the only option.

If anyone is familiar with a branded one for decent price kindly share

Prateek, any tips on how to reduce noise floor in a regular room?

 

[sandeepmohan]

In fact, @sandeepmohan, if I am not wrong, made a great point earlier - that the satellites could end up being power hungry.

Ankit has covered this already.

If you are taking the AVR + Power Amplifier route, I won't worry about driving Satellite speakers. When its a AVR only set up, you will feel shortchanged when it comes to sound as it can't send enough power to all the speakers. It will drive them, just not wake them enough to sound their best. Sensitivity aside, Satellite speakers are pretty good for home theatre actually. Not great for music though. If space is a premium for you, take the satellite route with something like this Paradigm. There are a number of other good options too.

You don't need to cheap out on Atmos speakers. There are some nice Pro Fx, Polk Audio ceiling speakers, or in wall speakers you can use. They are more than enough for Atmos or an effects channel.

Lets say your AVR can push 200 watts/channel, one channel drive. You can expect, at the very minimum 40 watts per channel, 5 channels driven. 200/5. The less number of speakers you drive, the more power there is for the remainder of the channels. I am being a bit optimistic with the above 40 watts. Sometimes it may dip, depending on load or whats happening on screen. When the AVR can't provide enough current or drive, distortion sets in and thats when the sound is no longer pleasing to your ears.

If you have all channels from the AVR Pre Out feeding a power amplifier, its the latter doing all the hard work. The AVR is just doing processing. The amplifier section of the AVR is still running but won't be under any load.

 

[k-pad]

Ankit has covered this already.

If you are taking the AVR + Power Amplifier route, I won't worry about driving Satellite speakers.

Ah, got it.

When its a AVR only set up, you will feel shortchanged when it comes to sound as it can't send enough power to all the speakers. It will drive them, just not wake them enough to sound their best. Sensitivity aside, Satellite speakers are pretty good for home theatre actually.

This is where AVR power fails, and a 11-channel also cannot actually drive 11 channels. Makes sense actually. When they say 90 watts two channels driven, there has got to be trade off somewhere.

Not great for music though. If space is a premium for you, take the satellite route with something like this Paradigm. There are a number of other good options too.

Absolutely agree. Not gonna do any music in this room. Guess you missed the tasty bit in the thread - the missus said yesterday that she would like music "everywhere in the house" and I could keep this tiny room for HT.
(I wonder if she has been secretly reading what AVR reviews tout as Zones )

You don't need to cheap out on Atmos speakers. There are some nice Pro Fx, Polk Audio ceiling speakers, or in wall speakers you can use. They are more than enough for Atmos or an effects channel.

I do want to for these six channels (4x ceiling + 2x rear)
In fact one of the things I was thinking to buy was a company called Speakercraft (5-inch diameter speakers with 3-inch woofer cones rated at 90 dB sensitivity). Is that a really bad idea?

Lets say your AVR can push 200 watts/channel, one channel drive. You can expect, at the very minimum 40 watts per channel, 5 channels driven. 200/5. The less number of speakers you drive, the more power there is for the remainder of the channels.

Got it. Helps.

I am being a bit optimistic with the above 40 watts.

This is soooo damning! Has it been so in your experience?!

Sometimes it may dip, depending on load or whats happening on screen. When the AVR can't provide enough current or drive, distortion sets in and thats when the sound is no longer pleasing to your ears.

Crazy! You know what, as someone who has read everything in theory, this is kind of pissing off. Cos, in theory they shouldn't be doing this!

If you have all channels from the AVR Pre Out feeding a power amplifier, its the latter doing all the hard work. The AVR is just doing processing. The amplifier section of the AVR is still running but won't be under any load.

This helps, like @ankitbhargava said.

Will definitely consider an Amp now.
Can't thank you all enough!

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Powering LCR with an amp and the peripherals with the AVR's power will not help?

I was temporarily using a Yamaha AVR to power my overheads for a few months. Moving to a power amp for them was a significant difference wrt dynamics, details and subjective envelopment. So much so that the missus noticed and commented that she was glad for my purchase. That's the best kind of purchase there is

 

[prateekatasniya]

Prateek, any tips on how to reduce noise floor in a regular room?

Basics
A sound proof door to reduce the outside noise from coming in and vice versa.

HAVC with low noise ducting instead of regular ac. Would cost around 1-1.5 lakhs.. which I feel is worth the money.

Closed av rack with quiet ventilation fans if your equipment consist of any noise producing cooking fans.

Projector hush box.

If you feel a certain component noise isn't bothering then compare the silence with the component on vs off. If you can notice whether it's on or off then the noise is effecting the system performance.

 

[k-pad]

I was temporarily using a Yamaha AVR to power my overheads for a few months. Moving to a power amp for them was a significant difference wrt dynamics, details and subjective envelopment. So much so that the missus noticed and commented that she was glad for my purchase. That's the best kind of purchase there is

That's crazy, bro!
Does a power amp really add that much! To overheads?!
@ankitbhargava also said the same, and I was kinda disbelieving!
This just means power companies are gypping us, ya!
A decent AVR needs power amps on the one hand, and a pre-pro will cost us an arm and a leg!

I kind of understand why people are driven towards soundbars!

 

[k-pad]

Basics

Thanks, bhai

A sound proof door to reduce the outside noise from coming in and vice versa.

In a very amateurish way, have ordered a roll of weather strips to run around either the door or doorframe. Should arrive next week.
The current door is very "gappy" (5 mm on three sides!) Between when it's open and closed, the difference is 5 dB.
Hoping to seal it, and see how it sounds outside the room, too.

On separate note, do solid core doors do better than solid wood doors?

HAVC with low noise ducting instead of regular ac. Would cost around 1-1.5 lakhs.. which I feel is worth the money.

Does this apply to regular room A/Cs?
Is it that expensive? and really worth it?!

 

[prateekatasniya]

Thanks, bhai

In a very amateurish way, have ordered a roll of weather strips to run around either the door or doorframe. Should arrive next week.
The current door is very "gappy" (5 mm on three sides!) Between when it's open and closed, the difference is 5 dB.
Hoping to seal it, and see how it sounds outside the room, too.

On separate note, do solid core doors do better than solid wood doors?


Does this apply to regular room A/Cs?
Is it that expensive? and really worth it?!

Reducing the room's noise floor makes a huge difference.
However one's budget should allow it.