A good 11-channel AVR vs a good 9-channel AVR +amp for 7.x.4 HT?

[Decadent_Spectre]

In a very amateurish way, have ordered a roll of weather strips to run around either the door or doorframe. Should arrive next week.
The current door is very "gappy" (5 mm on three sides!) Between when it's open and closed, the difference is 5 dB.
Hoping to seal it, and see how it sounds outside the room, too.

For the bottom (something similar to the links, not necessarily the exact item) -

What is automatic drop down seal? - CCE

An automatic drop-down seal for doors consists of an external aluminum profile (1) (of variable dimensions depending on the model and on the door system in which it will be installed) and of a second inner aluminum profile (2) that is pushed downwards by rigid trust-roads in plastic material...

cce.it

For the sides (not sure if it will work with 5mm, may need something similar but thicker) -

Gasket Rubber Seal - Chess Trading

Glasswool, Rockwool, Foam, Acoustical Foam, Genset Accessories, HVAC Accessories, Hinges, Locks, Sealing Tape

chesstrading.com

I have something similar to these on my door.

 

[k-pad]

Reducing the room's noise floor makes a huge difference.
However one's budget should allow it.

Got it. Thanks

 

[k-pad]

For the bottom (something similar to the links, not necessarily the exact item) -

What is automatic drop down seal? - CCE

An automatic drop-down seal for doors consists of an external aluminum profile (1) (of variable dimensions depending on the model and on the door system in which it will be installed) and of a second inner aluminum profile (2) that is pushed downwards by rigid trust-roads in plastic material...

cce.it

For the sides (not sure if it will work with 5mm, may need something similar but thicker) -

Gasket Rubber Seal - Chess Trading

Glasswool, Rockwool, Foam, Acoustical Foam, Genset Accessories, HVAC Accessories, Hinges, Locks, Sealing Tape

chesstrading.com

I have something similar to these on my door.

Bought some cheaper stuff for now.
Will try these for long-term.
Thanks

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Does a power amp really add that much! To overheads?!

It certainly did. IME, two things matter: The dynamic capability of the rest of the system and how close listening levels are to theatrical levels. The higher the former and closer the latter, the more essential a power amp becomes for surrounds/overheads. So, for me, in my room, the power amps for the overheads made a dramatic difference.

 

[prateekatasniya]

It certainly did. IME, two things matter: The dynamic capability of the rest of the system and how close listening levels are to theatrical levels. The higher the former and closer the latter, the more essential a power amp becomes for surrounds/overheads. So, for me, in my room, the power amps for the overheads made a dramatic difference.

Yeah .. possible because a clipping speaker, be it Atmos, can effect the complete performance.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Before getting carried away lets remember that too much power is also bad, just like clipping. An active speaker with built in protection vs amp power is a good bet for someone starting out.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Oh and to the topic of power amps, I've only ever bought one AVR, that's been gathering dust for over 10 years. I would have replaced it with a pre/pro except I don't care about movies.

In short, if you can (appropriately) supply power via external amps to speakers then you will have a better experience.

Edit: I should add that my experience with amps is limited to mostly pro amps. Many home amps provide little power and may or may not make such a big difference. To better understand take 1W and keep doubling it, for each doubling of power you gain about 3db of output. So 8W would be - 1>2>4>8W, so you've doubled it 3 times, hence 9db gain. That means a speaker with an actual 1W sensitivity of 91db at one meter would be playing at 100db at max power of 8W.

Now the important part, you may think I need x db so let's get something which does that, I don't need anymore. Wrong! Ideally you want 10db headroom from your MAX listening level at listening poisition. To aid in that you loose about 6db per doubling of distance from 1 meter.

 

[ankitbhargava]

good to know am not alone in this.

That's great.

Well put. Immersion and a sense of envelopment is what I was looking for if I went the whole hog. Powering LCR with an amp and the peripherals with the AVR's power will not help?

10x12/hoping to do 6 to 7 feet listening distance.../and 75-85 dB for movies is what it will ideally be on a day-to-day average...

Sounds like it definitely will.

But, did you experience better immersion and envelopment with a power amp for all ear-level channels and AVR only for heights? Is it that much of a night and day difference?

My Surrounds came to life after adding Power Amp to them, the whole rear stage started feeling better with of course fronts.
Rear surrounds and heights, its more content specific actually. There are scenes in Atmos where if the effects are not played loud enough or the dynamics go missing ... the effects don't sound impressive. The Atmos engagement in entire movie could be very frequent or just in some scenes.

Overall, my personal opinion is its better to power up all channels possible as against LCR.

 

[k-pad]

It certainly did. IME, two things matter: The dynamic capability of the rest of the system and how close listening levels are to theatrical levels. The higher the former and closer the latter, the more essential a power amp becomes for surrounds/overheads. So, for me, in my room, the power amps for the overheads made a dramatic difference.

Thanks, Liverpool.
From what you say, better to get decent speakers for side surrounds also?
If you are running overheads with power amps, which ones do you drive with the AVR's power?
Regards

 

[k-pad]

Many home amps provide little power and may or may not make such a big difference.

got it.

To better understand take 1W and keep doubling it, for each doubling of power you gain about 3db of output. So 8W would be - 1>2>4>8W, so you've doubled it 3 times, hence 9db gain. That means a speaker with an actual 1W sensitivity of 91db at one meter would be playing at 100db at max power of 8W.

Now the important part, you may think I need x db so let's get something which does that, I don't need anymore. Wrong! Ideally you want 10db headroom from your MAX listening level at listening poisition. To aid in that you loose about 6db per doubling of distance from 1 meter.

Yep, understood.
Thanks, mate.

 

[k-pad]

There are scenes in Atmos where if the effects are not played loud enough or the dynamics go missing ... the effects don't sound impressive. The Atmos engagement in entire movie could be very frequent or just in some scenes.

So much to consider!

Overall, my personal opinion is its better to power up all channels possible as against LCR.

Thanks a lot, Ankit, for the suggestions.
regards

 

[liverpool_for_life]

From what you say, better to get decent speakers for side surrounds also?

My preference is for decent speakers all around, if budget allows. You want to avoid a situation where the rest of your system is struggling to keep up with your mains at the levels you typically listen to.

If you are running overheads with power amps, which ones do you drive with the AVR's power?

No AVR for me, just a processor. My LCR are powered speakers, as are my rear surrounds. My side surrounds and overheads are powered by Powersoft Quattracanoli amplifiers.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

What? No K/X?

 

[k-pad]

My preference is for decent speakers all around, if budget allows. You want to avoid a situation where the rest of your system is struggling to keep up with your mains at the levels you typically listen to.



No AVR for me, just a processor. My LCR are powered speakers, as are my rear surrounds. My side surrounds and overheads are powered by Powersoft Quattracanoli amplifiers.

Oh, okay. got it.
Thanks, mate.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

What? No K/X?

If this post is in response to mine, I don’t understand it.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Sorry, I meant why not K/X series from Powersoft.

 

[sandeepmohan]

This is soooo damning! Has it been so in your experience?!

Yes.
I've now owned and meddled with a Pioneer, Denon and Onkyo and they all exhibit the same behavior. The more channels you drive, the amp section has next to no juice or head room to run them all. I hear NAD's and Anthem's are better at this but good luck finding these AVR's in India. The former maybe available. Denon's claims are bogus. They advertise most of their AVR's as equal power to all channels. Its optimistic. Maybe their flagship amp can do this but at 7lacs a piece, there is so much more you can do with that money.

Speakerkraft should be fine for an effects channel. Just make sure they gel well with the rest of the speakers.

 

[pbananth]

sorry for a noob question.. if i use power amp only for surround and atmos (4+4)whether i get full power from AVR to the LCR.
I am using Denon AVC x6700H 11.2 .
thanks.

 

[sandeepmohan]

sorry for a noob question.. if i use power amp only for surround and atmos (4+4)whether i get full power from AVR to the LCR.
I am using Denon AVC x6700H 11.2 .
thanks.

Lets say your Denon does 300 watts per channel at 8ohms. Split that value by 3 and you should get closer to 100 watts per channel for each of your LCR speakers. I am winging it with the 300 watts. It could be +/- 10 to 15 watts (usually minus) depending on source material.

Ideally; you want to do the reverse of what you want to attempt. The power hogs are the LCR's. The ceiling (or atmos) and rear surrounds are generally okay to run off the AVR amplifier.

You can do what you want to do but ideally, you want that power amp to push nice clean power to the more demanding channels, which are the LCR's. The spikes on the effects channels are a lot less demanding unless there is armageddon taking place on screen. Its not continuous.

 

[k-pad]

Lets say your Denon does 300 watts per channel at 8ohms. Split that value by 3 and you should get closer to 100 watts per channel for each of your LCR speakers. I am winging it with the 300 watts. It could be +/- 10 to 15 watts (usually minus) depending on source material.

Ideally; you want to do the reverse of what you want to attempt. The power hogs are the LCR's. The ceiling (or atmos) and rear surrounds are generally okay to run off the AVR amplifier.

You can do what you want to do but ideally, you want that power amp to push nice clean power to the more demanding channels, which are the LCR's. The spikes on the effects channels are a lot less demanding unless there is armageddon taking place on screen. Its not continuous.

That's a great explanation, @pbananth
Even I had a related doubt about how power is distributed when AVRs are mated with power amps.
Will help other FMs also if you can share config/sensitivity/impedance....
Best and regards