Active System with BEYMA 15CXA400FE COAXIAL Drivers, Finally Arrived !!!

[mpw]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

wow.. this is turning out to be one serious thread.. i am scrambling to find out the magnet on my speakers midbass now :lol:

on a more serious note.. it would be interesting to plot the availability of certain type of magnets / rare earths in relation to the year of launch of the particular driver.. i mean.. were certain magnets chosen to deliberately impart a "flavour / macro / micro etc.. or were they very simply a function of availability.

and extending further.. does the presence of a certain type of magnet on a speaker imply a certain type of material for the cone of the speaker ? and the spider design ?

I understand "vented" magnets are used due to their greater power handling capacity.. are these type of magnets found on vintage speakers ?

and even further.. would the choice of a speaker driver magnet imply a certain choice in amplification too ??


mpw

 

[jai1611]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

A user comparison of the Tannoys and Beyma here: Tannoy alternatives - Page 3 - diyAudio

 

[kanwar]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

A user comparison of the Tannoys and Beyma here: Tannoy alternatives - Page 3 - diyAudio

Yes, only because I couldn't wait for the active and boxes to be made for the Beyma's. I took one Tannoy out of it's cabinet and replaced it with a Beyma 15xa38nd. Considering the crossover point was less than ideal for the Beyma, the sound is excellent. The Beyma is more dynamic,more efficient, more life like. I have always considered the Tannoy Gold's to be a very accurate warm sounding speaker. Now they sound a bit honky in the upper midrange, limited up top and struggle under a bit of volume. They sound a little bit second rate compared to the Beyma. I'm sure the Tannerds would want to punch me for that statement. However, I hope that someone else does the same thing and comments on their impression.

Nice find Jaibir hyeah:

 

[kanwar]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

Ranjeetain your visit is long overdue! Come for a listen!

+1, Manav bro have a great session

 

[Rajiv]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

Hi,,

2. Natural HF extension, Beyma Titanium HF goes above 18khz easily
3. Higher Power handling increases better dynamic handling of music. You cannot bottom out the modern drivers with 200w amp, they need 800W amp to reach the limits.

Sound quality wise Aluminium diaphragms are way better than titanium.The reason that titanium started being used as diaphragm material was because with the advent of high power SS amps the aluminium diaphragms were being blown up and not because of improved sound quality.

Here is what JBL has to say.

However, it was soon discovered that the diamond surrounds limited power handling. The diamond peaks are more susceptible to stress concentration and failure. This led JBL to pioneer the use of titanium as a diaphragm material in 1982. Titanium is an order of magnitude more resistant to fatigue failures than aluminum. With this new diaphragm, JBL now had compression drivers with exceptional output and extension.

However, it was recognized that there were compromises with the new diaphragms. Titanium does not have the internal damping of aluminum and thus has marginally higher distortion levels. The diamond surrounds, while extending frequency response, do so at the expense of transient response. Further, due to its lower stiffness, titanium goes into breakup at a lower frequency.

435BE

Also,

There is a critical sound difference between the titanium and aluminum diaphragms. If we presume the motor and wave passage structure of two units is identical and we install an aluminum diaphragm in one and a titanium unit in another you will heare the following difference. In a word, the titanium unit will be zingyier. It will exhibit a silibance on the upper end the alumiun will not. Some people equate this to an improved HF. It is actually distortion. The alumiunum diaphragm is a softer metal and so has internal damping forces that do not allow (as many) spurious resonances to build in the diaphragm. Titaniun is quite hard, denser, tougher, and has almost double the weight for a given volume. This harder material allows distortion carrying resonances to sustain them selves in the diaphragm. Because of the higher weight manufacturers reduce the thicknes of titanium to get the weight closer to aluminum which in turn makes the diaphragm even more resonance prone. When Dr. Rex Sinclair was with Radian Audio he wrote a paper which described this phenomenia in depth. It will describe this tendency much better than this two bit tour. Other driver criteria also affects the performance, such as dome suspension. The tangential compliance of the ALTEC 802-806-902-909-288-299-old JBL 2210-2220-LE85-LE-175 does an excellent of decoupling the dome from the suspension. Titanium because it is harder does not do such a good job and you can get more resonance problems from this. The composite/symbiotic suspension as used in 807-808-908-291-Radians works fine but is heavier due to the weight of the Kapton/Mylar and the glue joint. Titanium works fine if you are not listening critically. Almost all musicians speakers made today use these diaphragms because they are tough. Another problem with titanium diaphragns is subharmonic distortion where the designers try to move the diaphragm closer to the phase plug to get more HF output. The titanium is tough enough that hitting the phase plug, something that will immediately destroy an allumiunm unit, is not as much concern and close order standing waves develop between the two surfaces. This often manifests itself as considerable ouput at 1/2 fundimental. The large format JBLs have a few dB less output at 5K (distortion?) than the original 10K fundimental! This is something a 288 will never do. If you think I'm joking, take a sine wave generator and hook it up to your big titanium JBL and feed it with a slow sweep from 7-11K. At 10K fundimental, the 5k is very noticable. Most of the low power aluminum diaphragms are made of good old pre WW2 aircraft soft duralumiun. The 909 and 299 diaphragms are made of a tougher aluminum alloy and is heat treated. In this authors opinion, this is the best compromise for higher power. It handles 2.5 times the power of the duralumiun units and retains most of the good qualities.
If you want good listening, stay with aluminum. Jim

In a home listening situation you are not likely to to be putting 200 watts into your 100db + speakers unless you want to go deaf.

Please don't take anyone's word as gospel (even mine). Go out and listen to the differences. I have and I know what I like, that does not mean others will too. I respect their opinions and will not try to force my opinions on them.



Regards
Rajiv

 

[prem]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

I believe Be diaphgrams are even better. Never heard them though

 

[Rajiv]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

Hi,,

I believe Be diaphgrams are even better. Never heard them though

Price is the only thing keeping me from buying the BE diaphragms. Can't afford a $1000 pair replacement if I have an accident .:sad:

Regards
Rajiv

 

[kanwar]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

I believe Be diaphgrams are even better. Never heard them though

The only Beryllium compression drivers which i have liked and used are from Radian. Only drawback is that their HF extension is limited as compared with titanium at high powers transients.

 

[kanwar]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

Hi,,
Sound quality wise Aluminium diaphragms are way better than titanium.The reason that titanium started being used as diaphragm material was because with the advent of high power SS amps the aluminium diaphragms were being blown up and not because of improved sound quality.

Have you done comparison on Titanium vs Beryllium vs Aluminium, would love to hear from you. Fortunately i have done. Agree with you on power rating, Aluminum is not power friendly.
Regarding Sonics, i personally prefer Titanium and Beryllium.

In a home listening situation you are not likely to to be putting 200 watts into your 100db + speakers unless you want to go deaf.

No one wants to blast the shit out of the speakers, the only thing higher power handling provides is the ample headroom required in producing good amount of bass at lower octaves. Altecs 604 are 60W rated and driving them with 150W amp is good for achieving headroom. But due to my personal taste i prefer more power because the music to which i listen demands very high headroom and bottoms out the vintage drivers very easily.

Please don't take anyone's word as gospel (even mine). Go out and listen to the differences. I have and I know what I like, that does not mean others will too. I respect their opinions and will not try to force my opinions on them.

Regards
Rajiv

Hi,

I presume you make this statement after having actually heard a Tannoy Red.

Regards
Rajiv

I have heard Tannoy Monitor Gold[if I correctly remember the model] at Vinay's + Ranjeet Singh's place during my recent visit to their houses.

Beyma's are highly transient[faster] than Altecs & Tannoys.

I hope now this helps,
Kanwar

 

[ghatgepatil]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

@ Kanwar - If I may ask, which/what type of speaker - amplifier do you use for YOUR primary listening?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

Personally, I find that the modern beyma's can do everything better especially when driven hard. But the tone and timber is where the Altec 604 has the edge. In home listening scenarios we don't push them hard so they are kings!

Ranjeetain your visit is long overdue! Come for a listen!

+1, Manav bro have a great session

Thanks for the invite Malvai. Will schedule a visit at a good opportunity.

Hi,,



Sound quality wise Aluminium diaphragms are way better than titanium.The reason that titanium started being used as diaphragm material was because with the advent of high power SS amps the aluminium diaphragms were being blown up and not because of improved sound quality.

Here is what JBL has to say.



435BE

Also,



In a home listening situation you are not likely to to be putting 200 watts into your 100db + speakers unless you want to go deaf.

Please don't take anyone's word as gospel (even mine). Go out and listen to the differences. I have and I know what I like, that does not mean others will too. I respect their opinions and will not try to force my opinions on them.



Regards
Rajiv

I'd have dismissed some of the things written in that part. But written by JBL engineers it has to be given credibility. But it is also true that it is a justification for design choices JBL engineers made. Any company would write a paper in justification of the technology it pioneers. So that should be read with a pinch of salt.

My 2 paise worth of opinion.

I believe Be diaphgrams are even better. Never heard them though

BE diaphragms are certainly better. And poisonous too

@ Kanwar - If I may ask, which/what type of speaker - amplifier do you use for YOUR primary listening?

Is this question relevant in this thread? Doesn't that sound a bit personal for the context of discussion here?

 

[denom]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

So we are back to square one again.

Why do I get the feeling this thread is also turning out to be a continuation of the vintage vs modern drivers thread???

Going a little OT is fine but going totally off tangent to the topic discussed is happening far too often in most of the threads.

Here too I get the feeling of being enforced upon that vintage drivers are better, alnico magnets superior & so on.

Vintage drivers work for some not for others - likewise modern drivers. Shall we just let it end there, rather than beat chests championing 1 or the other.. Ultimately the thread becomes negative & ill feelings are harboured, which is not a good thing.

Humbly request FM's to stick to the topic being discussed in this thread (Beyma Drivers) rather than what is being discussed currently. IF you do not have anything worthwhile to contribute to the topic, kindly refrain from doing so, thank you.

PS: You have the PM route to clear the air with the respective FM's, why not make use of it???

 

[kanwar]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

@ Kanwar - If I may ask, which/what type of speaker - amplifier do you use for YOUR primary listening?

I have active system with speaker components from Beyma & 18sound and powered by class-D amplifier of my own design.

 

[ghatgepatil]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

The 1460 neo compression driver used too with the horn ..... ?

 

[kanwar]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

The 1460 neo compression driver used too with the horn ..... ?

Pro-Audio compression drivers are meant to be used with Horns only. You need a horn/flare for them in order to make a complete HF unit.

 

[apk]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

What would be an ideal room size for drivers of this size (15 inchers)? Given the small size of a typical Indian apartment, where the audio is either a shared space in a living room or kept in a spare bedroom, how would speakers of this size fare in a small room (say 11 feet x 12 feet)?

I guess a lot depends upon the cabinet design; but assuming the smallest feasible sized cabinet....

Would the 12 inch version (12CXA400Fe) of this driver be a better fit for smaller rooms?

Thanks,
APK

P.S - Hope a discussion on the room size suitable for these drivers is relevant for the OP (knowing that he is from Mumbai )

 

[kanwar]

Re: Beyma 15CXA400Fe Co-Ax Drivers Based Active Speakers

What would be an ideal room size for drivers of this size (15 inchers)? Given the small size of a typical Indian apartment, where the audio is either a shared space in a living room or kept in a spare bedroom, how would speakers of this size fare in a small room (say 11 feet x 12 feet)?

I guess a lot depends upon the cabinet design; but assuming the smallest feasible sized cabinet....

Would the 12 inch version (12CXA400Fe) of this driver be a better fit for smaller rooms?

Thanks,
APK

P.S - Hope a discussion on the room size suitable for these drivers is relevant for the OP (knowing that he is from Mumbai )

Hi APK,

AFAIK, The notion of having a big cone size dictating room size must be left behind. Large cones facilitate getting more output at lower octaves. The only drawback of having large cones is the space consumed by the respective cabinets, if the 20 X 25 room is filled with furniture, there also you will not get the space to place such speakers, whereas in empty 12X10[Manav's case and its bare minimum] room you have free space to share with the speakers. Alot depends on the placement also. Room smaller than 12X10 is also not going to give you any advantage because again you need some space between you and the speakers.

The above said is only true with Bass-Reflex ,TL or similar kind of cabinets. This doesn't hold true for large LF Horn based cabinets because Horns need a definite large space to breathe and distance from speakers and listener also needs a bit more. This is what i have personally felt.

The 12inch driver will be lacking in lower octave extension. Pro-Audio drivers are designed with High efficiency in mind, for lower octaves the only available option is to go with large cone size.

Cheers,
Kanwar

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

News: 18sound launches 15NCX750H neodymium coaxial

 

[denom]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Hi Kanwar,

Thanks for sharing the 18 sound new driver link.

Can you provide some comparo/ pros/cons between this driver & the beyma neo magnet one?

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Hi Kanwar,

Thanks for sharing the 18 sound new driver link.

Can you provide some comparo/ pros/cons between this driver & the beyma neo magnet one?

Only major drawback of 18sound coaxial is not much extended response towards HF. Beyma is ultimate in extension also the Fs is lower in Beyma.