Active System with BEYMA 15CXA400FE COAXIAL Drivers, Finally Arrived !!!

[kanwar]

Again the modern Pro-Audio drivers are winners

Ranjeetrain, power handling of new drivers will be better than vintage drivers. This is of great importance in pro audio. May not be that relevant in home audio. Most of the new cone materials has been designed for better power handling.

Someone tried Both Tannoys and Beymas with 15 and 25 dB dampenings in order to hear the large signal distortion from both of the drivers, here are the results.

I then chose the somewhat more expensive Beyma drivers and haven't had a single regret about it. They are fantastic!. Compared to a pair of Tannoy 15' 385 Golds (the model from the Westminister horns) they sound much better in any way I can think of. The Tannoys sound great at low volumes but driven to loud volume they get an unpleasant, distorted sound, IMO. The Beymas still play clean and undistorted long after my ears are distorting. This was verified by turning up the volume until I heard distinct distortion, then put in my full-range linear musicians ear-plugs - tried both the 15 and 25 dB dampenings - The distortion was clearly an artefact of my ears, not the speakers) . This was done at about 5 meters listening distance. You would need a VERY large room to ever be able to run these babys to within their limit.

Source

Now its clearly evident that even at high volume listening the Beymas kept the distortion profile much lower when compared with Tannoys.

So just put the ratio in perspective, you will see that how much lower the distortion is in the modern drivers when it comes to low level listening.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Kanwar, I'll touch base with you to discuss my next speaker.

At the moment I only know the speakers must sound great at low-volume settings. Let me do some basic homework, so that when we talk I don't only have to ask and you don't only have to explain

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Ok.........

 

[Fantastic]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

For alternative coax drivers no one mentioned the Eminence drivers available locally. You have the Beta -8CX , Beta-10CX and the Beta-12CX. I've tried the Beta-10CX with the ADS1001 compression driver and the JBL 220Ti titanium driver ( unboxed test !). The JBL driver has sibilance and sounds brighter. The ADS1001 driver is smoother. Haven't yet put it into a system.
I liked what I heard and think it should sound good in a proper implementation. Appears to have a good reputation abroad.
It's sensitivity is 94dB/w/m . Should sound good and loud with a 10 watt class A amp ( to give a peak of 104dB spl/m). For home use we don't really need to worry about compression effects and severe temperature rise as the operating levels are quite low. 104 dB spl is very loud in a house.
However people into metal and trance etc. might want discotheque levels ! I've always liked the sound of very efficient drivers with small power amps.

Cheers.

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

For alternative coax drivers no one mentioned the Eminence drivers available locally. You have the Beta -8CX , Beta-10CX and the Beta-12CX. I've tried the Beta-10CX with the ADS1001 compression driver and the JBL 220Ti titanium driver ( unboxed test !). The JBL driver has sibilance and sounds brighter. The ADS1001 driver is smoother. Haven't yet put it into a system.
I liked what I heard and think it should sound good in a proper implementation. Appears to have a good reputation abroad.
It's sensitivity is 94dB/w/m . Should sound good and loud with a 10 watt class A amp ( to give a peak of 104dB spl/m). For home use we don't really need to worry about compression effects and severe temperature rise as the operating levels are quite low. 104 dB spl is very loud in a house.
However people into metal and trance etc. might want discotheque levels ! I've always liked the sound of very efficient drivers with small power amps.

Cheers.

Thanxz for the advice, i don't consider present day JBL products anymore they are just junk........

I know about Eminence but i don't like the cheap steel pressed basket for its structural strength for its obvious reasons. Another reason is the HF unit is not coherent, as it actually fits behind the LF magnet assembly and the time alignment very poor if you compare it with Beyma coaxial which shares common magnet assembly for both LF and HF making the time-alignment much better.

Also compare the extended HF response of both the compression drivers their lies the real difference.

Yet another reason is absence of HF dispersion control in Eminence, Beyma has a HF FLare for that very purpose, you can check its off-axis dispersion graphs and can see for your self...........

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Even the affordable P-Audio range has got a cast aluminum frame for their Coaxial and that too has HF dispersion through dedicated flare........

SN15-500CX

 

[manoj.p]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

B&C has it too,
B&C 12FHX76 12" Professional Coaxial Speaker 60 x 40 8 Ohm

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

B&C has it too,
B&C 12FHX76 12" Professional Coaxial Speaker 60 x 40 8 Ohm

Discussion is for 15" , not 12". No point in using 12" coaxials, you wont get enough lower end.

 

[manoj.p]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Yeah, B&C has 15" versions too. B&C 15HCX76 15" Neodymium Coaxial Speaker 60 x 40 Degree

I know you love Beyma, but there are other options worth looking at too.

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Yeah, B&C has 15" versions too. B&C 15HCX76 15" Neodymium Coaxial Speaker 60 x 40 Degree

I know you love Beyma, but there are other options worth looking at too.

Compare the extended HF response.............

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

For those people, who might think that pro-audio drivers are not subjected to listening tests from their manufacturers, involving contribution from listeners, must go through this paper.

AES BEYMA SUBJECTIVE SOUND QUALITY EVALUATION PAPER

 

[kanwar]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Manoj,

Beyma uses common magnet assembly for HF and LF driver. See the magnet size for 15inch coaxial.

 

[captrajesh]

Re: Again the modern Pro-Audio drivers are winners

Someone tried Both Tannoys and Beymas with 15 and 25 dB dampenings in order to hear the large signal distortion from both of the drivers, here are the results.

Source

Interesting observation by that DIYer. Having said that, I'm wondering what is the status of that experiment and how far did it progress, considering that there has not been any new post since that post which is dated 5th June 2012, 02:20 hrs.

 

[denom]

Re: Again the modern Pro-Audio drivers are winners

Interesting observation by that DIYer. Having said that, I'm wondering what is the status of that experiment and how far did it progress, considering that there has not been any new post since that post which is dated 5th June 2012, 02:20 hrs.

Bro, I think the post by Drumhead on 5th June 2012, 08:50 AM says it all.

I think the passage from that post of his as quoted below should answer your question itself

"I am currently using them in a temporary (well, what isn't?) set-up: I made a pair of quick-and-dirty 90 liter closed cabinets out of some MDF leftovers from the 'real' boxes which are not yet finished. I use an active crossover (24 dB/octave - 1500 Hz) and bi-amping. In these small, closed boxes the bass volume is a little too thin for my taste (I never liked 'linear' much - I'm one of those people who always fiddle around with the tone controls whenever I change a CD or the listening volume). But with a little (that would probably in some peoples opinion be 'a lot of'..) boost around 80 Hz they sound fantastic. For low listening levels I use them 3-way together with an active sub (setting the crossover frequency to the lowest possible on my system, which is 44 Hz. All in all this sounds so good that I have doubts about bothering with building the bass-reflex boxes I originally planned. At least I'm in no hurry. I would say that basically they sound great."

Pretty much sums up why he din bother to post anything further, as he found what he was looking for.

His search ended there!

:cheers:

 

[square_wave]

Re: Again the modern Pro-Audio drivers are winners

I then chose the somewhat more expensive Beyma drivers and haven't had a single regret about it. They are fantastic!. Compared to a pair of Tannoy 15' 385 Golds (the model from the Westminister horns) they sound much better in any way I can think of. The Tannoys sound great at low volumes but driven to loud volume they get an unpleasant, distorted sound, IMO. The Beymas still play clean and undistorted long after my ears are distorting. This was verified by turning up the volume until I heard distinct distortion, then put in my full-range linear musicians ear-plugs - tried both the 15 and 25 dB dampenings - The distortion was clearly an artefact of my ears, not the speakers) . This was done at about 5 meters listening distance. You would need a VERY large room to ever be able to run these babys to within their limit.

Very curious about this quote from diyaudio...

1. Capability of a driver to provide very high levels of spl without distortion is not an important criteria in high fidelity speakers used in home environment.
2. Fast rise time, lack of distortion, tonal quality at reasonable spls are some desirable qualities for high fidelity speakers. In a home environment, very few people venture into high spls..
3. If one has to target low distortion at very high spls, will there will be some compromises in very low volume levels in the design?

Just providing another perspective to this...also not sure about the diyaudio guys background so cant say anything about the experiment though..

 

[kanwar]

Re: Again the modern Pro-Audio drivers are winners

Very curious about this quote from diyaudio...

1. Capability of a driver to provide very high levels of spl without distortion is not an important criteria in high fidelity speakers used in home environment.

Normally, in home audio environment, high spl is not needed, But there are some music genres which have average to peak ratio as much as 12dB. In such scenarios, the spl peak can create distortion products in inferior drivers.

2. Fast rise time, lack of distortion, tonal quality at reasonable spls are some desirable qualities for high fidelity speakers. In a home environment, very few people venture into high spls..

I guess the reasonable SPL in home audio environment ranges from 100dB to 112dB mostly with respect to peaks also.

3. If one has to target low distortion at very high spls, will there will be some compromises in very low volume levels in the design?

This is a misconception. The non-linearity of the drivers actually increase with the increase in xmax travel with respect to music signal. The distortion increases because in general the home audio drivers are made using traditional techniques used in coil winding. Whenever the coil leaves the linear magnetic flux density area, it behaves in a very non-linear manner.
Whereas in pro audio drivers, the coil is wound both Inside and Outside of the coil former which makes the narrow edge winding possible and which helps in cutting the winding area spread to a very narrow section, this inherently increases linearity of the driver because even with cone excursion, the driver remains in the linear area of operation. These days even some home audio driver firms are also using such techniques to eliminate the excursion based non-linearity.

When you get much lesser non-linearity at excursion travel, it actually makes the driver very much linear in low level listening, provided the pro driver has a matching cabinet designed according to the parameters.

The above said should be taken into context with good quality drivers both from pro and home audio.

Just providing another perspective to this...also not sure about the diyaudio guys background so cant say anything about the experiment though..

Well that was a very simple experiment to show the high spl distortion levels in drivers. Any one can try this with a set of good pro audio vs good home audio drivers. This is not a rocket science but a simple experiment.

 

[manoj.p]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Manoj,

Beyma uses common magnet assembly for HF and LF driver. See the magnet size for 15inch coaxial.

Kanwar,

B&C also seem to be using the common magnet assembly. Their polar response looks quite similar. And there price point is also similar. But there may be a difference in quality, only a direct listening comparison can tell. I don't have a preference. Just pointing out the alternative.

 

[captrajesh]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

Bro, I think the post by Drumhead on 5th June 2012, 08:50 AM says it all.

I am currently using them in a temporary (well, what isn't?) set-up: I made a pair of quick-and-dirty 90 liter closed cabinets out of some MDF leftovers from the 'real' boxes which are not yet finished.

What I understand from above is that he has carried out an experiment using "quick-and-dirty 90 liter closed cabinets out of some MDF leftovers." It would be natural for anyone to expect that he would make proper boxes and may be even post the build pics but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[denom]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

What I understand from above is that he has carried out an experiment using "quick-and-dirty 90 liter closed cabinets out of some MDF leftovers." It would be natural for anyone to expect that he would make proper boxes and may be even post the build pics but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Is that your guess or did he say to you so!

End of the day that person seems to be happy with whatever he achieved, albeit even in the temporary solution which he wrote about. That he is happy apparently has not gone down well with you???
Why don't you join that forum & start a new thread or ask that person in the same thread whatever that is bugging you in relation to his experiment???

Bro, what has happened to you??? Something seems to have gone awry in your circuitry, coz your way of going about in discussions off late has become very very unlike the person I knew. Or is your a/c being operated by somebody else???

Not sure what has happened but am not liking the new Capn Rajesh at all & shall seize to consider him as my big bro.

 

[captrajesh]

Re: BEYMA 15CXA400Fe COAXIAL Drivers Based Active Speakers

@Denom, it was supposed to be a light hearted comment but it looks like you've had/having a bad day. Edited my post to remove what I feel would've rubbed you on the wrong side. Sorry if I've offended you; it was inadvertent.

I thought the forum is all about discussions and sharing knowledge. Wondering why should I start a new thread to put across my view rather than putting across my point on the same thread!!!

Life is too small to get into complications and ending up being unhappy. This is my last post on the issue.