And then I subwoofed! Spendor with a subwoofer!

[vivek_r]

Ok so I have always been a “midrange” and “tone and timbre” guy. A bit patronising of those “I want bass” guys. Bass freaks!!! What do they know eh? The soul of the music lies in the midrange, don’t we know?

So the Spendor (S3/5R2) served me splendidly. However, being banished to the bedroom meant that I never got a chance to listen to the Graham in the living room. I had to tailor the music to the Spendors.

Out of nowhere came the itch now. I mean not out of nowhere - I am trawling audio sites anyway. I had to try me a subwoofer.

So googled furiously. Sealed box and sealed speakers are easier to integrate. Hmm hmmm. High level. Ok. Good for music and not HT. Yes there is no thunder in my recording. Closest is a recorded cannonball? As opposed to Cannonball.

Along came my generous buddy Surrealisix. “I have a DIY sub that I am not using. You can play around with it for 6 months. But I don’t plan to sell it. “. Who can say no? TSB another buddy obliged with a cable.

Setting it up was a 2 day affair. REL gives great easy tips. Mostly playing with volume (down!) and cross over (up and down) and phase (swipe swipe don’t fuss). Then make sure that the midrange with and without sub sounds roughly the same.

Frankly it’s magnificent. If you listen to Western music and Indian film music you owe yourself a try. It’s not about the bass. It’s about the music. It sounds fuller. More real. The bass is textured. The midrange and treble take on more clarity. The Spendors are singing. And magic! The sound is coming from the Speakers (optically) and not the sub.

And that my friends is the nub.

I am now subwoofed! Got to get me one much before the 6 months deadline.

And here is a song to celebrate that. Well I am totally addicted to the midrange, but need the bass (wow wahow)

 

[efernand1]

Nice details shared, yes a subwoofer is important to have, it just completes the missing low frequency spectrum!

Depending on your budget, you should explore the many subwoofers available, Yamaha would be a good investment.

If budget is low, there is OLX where there are some real good ones available. Check and make your purchase accordingly.

All the best!

 

[liverpool_for_life]

[...] What do they know eh?

That the conventional wisdom regarding music and subwoofers is conventional, but lacking wisdom. Aside from room treatment, the one thing to do to enhance the music listening experience is to add even a reasonably integrated subwoofer (or two or four).

Well I am totally addicted to the midrange, but need the bass (wow wahow)

Welcome to the dark side. It's plenty bright in here.

Enjoy your music, with all of the additional details, weight and clarity!

p.s. Only one way from here: Bigger drivers. More subs. Or both

 

[Analogous]

Ok so I have always been a “midrange” and “tone and timbre” guy. A bit patronising of those “I want bass” guys. Bass freaks!!! What do they know eh? The soul of the music lies in the midrange, don’t we know?

So the Spendor (S3/5R2) served me splendidly. However, being banished to the bedroom meant that I never got a chance to listen to the Graham in the living room. I had to tailor the music to the Spendors.

Out of nowhere came the itch now. I mean not out of nowhere - I am trawling audio sites anyway. I had to try me a subwoofer.

So googled furiously. Sealed box and sealed speakers are easier to integrate. Hmm hmmm. High level. Ok. Good for music and not HT. Yes there is no thunder in my recording. Closest is a recorded cannonball? As opposed to Cannonball.

Along came my generous buddy Surrealisix. “I have a DIY sub that I am not using. You can play around with it for 6 months. But I don’t plan to sell it. “. Who can say no? TSB another buddy obliged with a cable.

Setting it up was a 2 day affair. REL gives great easy tips. Mostly playing with volume (down!) and cross over (up and down) and phase (swipe swipe don’t fuss). Then make sure that the midrange with and without sub sounds roughly the same.

Frankly it’s magnificent. If you listen to Western music and Indian film music you owe yourself a try. It’s not about the bass. It’s about the music. It sounds fuller. More real. The bass is textured. The midrange and treble take on more clarity. The Spendors are singing. And magic! The sound is coming from the Speakers (optically) and not the sub.

And that my friends is the nub.

I am now subwoofed! Got to get me one much before the 6 months deadline.

And here is a song to celebrate that. Well I am totally addicted to the midrange, but need the bass (wow wahow)

@vivek_r i had a Deja vu moment when I read your post.
I have been on a subwoofer quest this past year and it has been a roller coaster ride all the way. There were moments of rapture and there were those of joy, frustration and even anger!
The learning curve has been steep and trying to understand low frequency measurements (Hz and Db), dead spots, waves cancelling each other, directionality, decay, sensing lows with skin rather than ears....and so much more.
I have bought four different subwoofers over this period. Thrifty as I am I started with a venerable REL q100e, then a REL Strata2, then a Anthony Gallo TR1 and finally a Martin Logan Dynamo 800. Each of them were lovely, unique, and lacking something or the other. I now firmly believe mastering 80hz and below presents the greatest challenge to mankind. Go on your quest with my best wishes friend. May the waves be with you.
(Oh, forgot to explain the Deja Vu: Martin Logan SW is anchoring a pair of Spendors A5R)

 

[vivek_r]

Thank you all!

There seem to be as many people frustrated with subs (sub rolling!) and given up and some who persisted and got through.

That the subs go lower than typical full range speakers seems to excite the room in unknown ways.

Thanks to help from my friends I got to try one out at zero cost and it has worked. A lack of home trial seems the bottleneck in a way? The thought of buying blind and then selling it seems a pain, especially as they weigh a lot!

A friend wrote to me saying I made it look easy - if I can muster enough energy to move this thing, perhaps I should try in a different room and see. Unlikely!!

For me the killer fine tuning was that the character of the voice did not change.

 

[newlash09]

Thank you all!

There seem to be as many people frustrated with subs (sub rolling!) and given up and some who persisted and got through.

That the subs go lower than typical full range speakers seems to excite the room in unknown ways.

Thanks to help from my friends I got to try one out at zero cost and it has worked. A lack of home trial seems the bottleneck in a way? The thought of buying blind and then selling it seems a pain, especially as they weigh a lot!

A friend wrote to me saying I made it look easy - if I can muster enough energy to move this thing, perhaps I should try in a different room and see. Unlikely!!

For me the killer fine tuning was that the character of the voice did not change.

Hi vivek..glad you are enjoying your sub to the hilt.

But as you correctly mentioned, getting a sub properly integrated is always a challenge. Some form of dsp helps I guess. I will be going down the rabbit hole this summer with 2 stages of dsp and if lucky 2 subs also, in my 4 my way active triamping experiment. So let's see

 

[arj]

Ok so I have always been a “midrange” and “tone and timbre” guy. A bit patronising of those “I want bass” guys. Bass freaks!!! What do they know eh? The soul of the music lies in the midrange, don’t we know?

So the Spendor (S3/5R2) served me splendidly. However, being banished to the bedroom meant that I never got a chance to listen to the Graham in the living room. I had to tailor the music to the Spendors.

Out of nowhere came the itch now. I mean not out of nowhere - I am trawling audio sites anyway. I had to try me a subwoofer.

So googled furiously. Sealed box and sealed speakers are easier to integrate. Hmm hmmm. High level. Ok. Good for music and not HT. Yes there is no thunder in my recording. Closest is a recorded cannonball? As opposed to Cannonball.

Along came my generous buddy Surrealisix. “I have a DIY sub that I am not using. You can play around with it for 6 months. But I don’t plan to sell it. “. Who can say no? TSB another buddy obliged with a cable.

Setting it up was a 2 day affair. REL gives great easy tips. Mostly playing with volume (down!) and cross over (up and down) and phase (swipe swipe don’t fuss). Then make sure that the midrange with and without sub sounds roughly the same.

Frankly it’s magnificent. If you listen to Western music and Indian film music you owe yourself a try. It’s not about the bass. It’s about the music. It sounds fuller. More real. The bass is textured. The midrange and treble take on more clarity. The Spendors are singing. And magic! The sound is coming from the Speakers (optically) and not the sub.

And that my friends is the nub.

I am now subwoofed! Got to get me one much before the 6 months deadline.

And here is a song to celebrate that. Well I am totally addicted to the midrange, but need the bass (wow wahow)

Wonderfully written !

My experience is that the subwoofer is not just about the bass but improves the richness of the Midrange too ! have always felt male vocals do much better in speakers with lower extensions or with Subs.

 

[NewBee2020]

Thank you all!

There seem to be as many people frustrated with subs (sub rolling!) and given up and some who persisted and got through.

That the subs go lower than typical full range speakers seems to excite the room in unknown ways.

Thanks to help from my friends I got to try one out at zero cost and it has worked. A lack of home trial seems the bottleneck in a way? The thought of buying blind and then selling it seems a pain, especially as they weigh a lot!

A friend wrote to me saying I made it look easy - if I can muster enough energy to move this thing, perhaps I should try in a different room and see. Unlikely!!

For me the killer fine tuning was that the character of the voice did not change.

Nicely written @vivek_r,I totally agree with The blind buying,It is always a pain as sound is very subjective and can't solely relay on the reviews,Given the current circumstances we are forced to do some..Glad you are able to enjoy!!...I feel the low end is as important as other frequencies which adds that richness to the overall sound signature...Once the subs are well integrated with the other speakers the magic it creates is of a different level of joy.

 

[Analogous]

@vivek_r i had a Deja vu moment when I read your post.
I have been on a subwoofer quest this past year and it has been a roller coaster ride all the way. There were moments of rapture and there were those of joy, frustration and even anger!
The learning curve has been steep and trying to understand low frequency measurements (Hz and Db), dead spots, waves cancelling each other, directionality, decay, sensing lows with skin rather than ears....and so much more.
I have bought four different subwoofers over this period. Thrifty as I am I started with a venerable REL q100e, then a REL Strata2, then a Anthony Gallo TR1 and finally a Martin Logan Dynamo 800. Each of them were lovely, unique, and lacking something or the other. I now firmly believe mastering 80hz and below presents the greatest challenge to mankind. Go on your quest with my best wishes friend. May the waves be with you.
(Oh, forgot to explain the Deja Vu: Martin Logan SW is anchoring a pair of Spendors A5R)

I typed in the phrase “Deja Vu” in this discussion yesterday. I used this phrase after many years. And guess what I found in my news feed today!!!

What causes déjà vu? The quirky neuroscience behind the memory illusion

Our neuroscientist expert explains how Deja vu is far from a memory fault, what causes it – and how some people experience it constantly.

www.sciencefocus.com

Am I being paranoid ?

 

[oldmonk]

with so much experience in the Jazz genres you listen to i am reasonably sure a subwoofer will complement your stand mounts..

i dont know what size subwoofer this is but sometimes smaller ones might be better to manage.

good luck !

 

[square_wave]

Consider 2 smaller subs if possible. Instead of a very large single one. Better integration and cleaner bass in typical rooms.

 

[vivek_r]

I typed in the phrase “Deja Vu” in this discussion yesterday. I used this phrase after many years. And guess what I found in my news feed today!!!

What causes déjà vu? The quirky neuroscience behind the memory illusion

Our neuroscientist expert explains how Deja vu is far from a memory fault, what causes it – and how some people experience it constantly.

www.sciencefocus.com

Am I being paranoid ?

You remember the scene from the Matrix? No you are not paranoid. We all need to be.

 

[soundbuff]

Nice write up Vivek.

 

[Beast_of_burden]

@vivek_r i had a Deja vu moment when I read your post.
I have been on a subwoofer quest this past year and it has been a roller coaster ride all the way. There were moments of rapture and there were those of joy, frustration and even anger!
The learning curve has been steep and trying to understand low frequency measurements (Hz and Db), dead spots, waves cancelling each other, directionality, decay, sensing lows with skin rather than ears....and so much more.
I have bought four different subwoofers over this period. Thrifty as I am I started with a venerable REL q100e, then a REL Strata2, then a Anthony Gallo TR1 and finally a Martin Logan Dynamo 800. Each of them were lovely, unique, and lacking something or the other. I now firmly believe mastering 80hz and below presents the greatest challenge to mankind. Go on your quest with my best wishes friend. May the waves be with you.
(Oh, forgot to explain the Deja Vu: Martin Logan SW is anchoring a pair of Spendors A5R)

I am a Martin Logan subwoofer fan too, the Dynamo 700 and up are superb but by no means easy to integrate. Some kind of DSP and room treatment are a must IME. I too am looking for a sub, the ones you have tried are the one I am interested too. The REL Strata, Gallo TR1 and ML Dynamo 800 all are sealed subs, are they really that different? Perhaps you can share why you let go of the TR1 and the REL Strata.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Thank you all!

There seem to be as many people frustrated with subs (sub rolling!) and given up and some who persisted and got through.

That the subs go lower than typical full range speakers seems to excite the room in unknown ways.

Thanks to help from my friends I got to try one out at zero cost and it has worked. A lack of home trial seems the bottleneck in a way? The thought of buying blind and then selling it seems a pain, especially as they weigh a lot!

A friend wrote to me saying I made it look easy - if I can muster enough energy to move this thing, perhaps I should try in a different room and see. Unlikely!!

For me the killer fine tuning was that the character of the voice did not change.

Never tried one (I am more on the simplification path right now). But reading this and similar posts elsewhere, system integration seems to be the most critical aspect in adding a sub. Therefore I am wondering if the companies making subs couid try selling them as ‘solutions’ than as ‘products’. With mobile app based technologies on room correction available, could something be bundled with the the sub when you buy it - so that it guides you through the installation and integration? And probably with a call-in support for expert guidance or troubleshooting? For costlier products an onsite service for the same might be a great value addition.

Does any subwoofer company/distributor already take this approach?

 

[alankar1977]

Ok so I have always been a “midrange” and “tone and timbre” guy. A bit patronising of those “I want bass” guys. Bass freaks!!! What do they know eh? The soul of the music lies in the midrange, don’t we know?

So the Spendor (S3/5R2) served me splendidly. However, being banished to the bedroom meant that I never got a chance to listen to the Graham in the living room. I had to tailor the music to the Spendors.

Out of nowhere came the itch now. I mean not out of nowhere - I am trawling audio sites anyway. I had to try me a subwoofer.

So googled furiously. Sealed box and sealed speakers are easier to integrate. Hmm hmmm. High level. Ok. Good for music and not HT. Yes there is no thunder in my recording. Closest is a recorded cannonball? As opposed to Cannonball.

Along came my generous buddy Surrealisix. “I have a DIY sub that I am not using. You can play around with it for 6 months. But I don’t plan to sell it. “. Who can say no? TSB another buddy obliged with a cable.

Setting it up was a 2 day affair. REL gives great easy tips. Mostly playing with volume (down!) and cross over (up and down) and phase (swipe swipe don’t fuss). Then make sure that the midrange with and without sub sounds roughly the same.

Frankly it’s magnificent. If you listen to Western music and Indian film music you owe yourself a try. It’s not about the bass. It’s about the music. It sounds fuller. More real. The bass is textured. The midrange and treble take on more clarity. The Spendors are singing. And magic! The sound is coming from the Speakers (optically) and not the sub.

And that my friends is the nub.

I am now subwoofed! Got to get me one much before the 6 months deadline.

And here is a song to celebrate that. Well I am totally addicted to the midrange, but need the bass (wow wahow)

Nice....I am also considering a REL Sub for my electrostatic speakers, probably a T9i.

 

[Analogous]

I am a Martin Logan subwoofer fan too, the Dynamo 700 and up are superb but by no means easy to integrate. Some kind of DSP and room treatment are a must IME. I too am looking for a sub, the ones you have tried are the one I am interested too. The REL Strata, Gallo TR1 and ML Dynamo 800 all are sealed subs, are they really that different? Perhaps you can share why you let go of the TR1 and the REL Strata.

Hi @Beast_of_burden,

I didn’t want to let go of any of them, I sold the Anthony Gallo to keep the peace at home. It had an unusual design (metal cylinder, sealed) and sounded pretty good for a 8incher. I still have the REL Strata2

I have a hard time now deciding which one to keep between the Strata 2 and ML Dynamo. But at some point I will have to bite the bullet...

BTW the strata 2 is ported and the ML Dynamo 800X is sealed and has Anthem room correction and the crossover and volume setting can be controlled through an app.

Wish I could clearly tell you my preference between the two. I keep switching between the two (week to 10 days) The REL goes lower and I think the ML is tighter(?)

Both integrate nicely with the ProAc, KEF LS50 (stand mounts) and the Spendors (small towers) in the room 10’x12’ with minimal room treatment. I could place the ML almost anywhere thanks to the built in Anthem Room correction facility.(anthem app downloaded on my phone, using phone microphone- @3-5 minutes)

I been reading about FMs who are very happy with servo driven SWs like Rhythmik. But past experiences caution me from exploring this before I sell one as I probably will end up buying a Rhythmik SW to try for myself in my room.

Not sure if I answered your queries. Let me know if you had any other questions in mind. I will try my best to give you MHO.

 

[Beast_of_burden]

Hi @Beast_of_burden,

I didn’t want to let go of any of them, I sold the Anthony Gallo to keep the peace at home. It had an unusual design (metal cylinder, sealed) and sounded pretty good for a 8incher. I still have the REL Strata2

I have a hard time now deciding which one to keep between the Strata 2 and ML Dynamo. But at some point I will have to bite the bullet...

BTW the strata 2 is ported and the ML Dynamo 800X is sealed and has Anthem room correction and the crossover and volume setting can be controlled through an app.

Wish I could clearly tell you my preference between the two. I keep switching between the two (week to 10 days) The REL goes lower and I think the ML is tighter(?)

Both integrate nicely with the ProAc, KEF LS50 (stand mounts) and the Spendors (small towers) in the room 10’x12’ with minimal room treatment. I could place the ML almost anywhere thanks to the built in Anthem Room correction facility.(anthem app downloaded on my phone, using phone microphone- @3-5 minutes)

I been reading about FMs who are very happy with servo driven SWs like Rhythmik. But past experiences caution me from exploring this before I sell one as I probably will end up buying a Rhythmik SW to try for myself in my room.

Not sure if I answered your queries. Let me know if you had any other questions in mind. I will try my best to give you MHO.

The ML with all that DSP has a big advantage. Is it true that the Rel is very subtle and disappears completely. The Dynamo I had was anything but subtle, it could rattle everything around but still disappear. And this was Willie Dixon playing bass.

Did you audition the Rel T series subs before getting the Strata 2?

 

[Analogous]

The ML with all that DSP has a big advantage. Is it true that the Rel is very subtle and disappears completely. The Dynamo I had was anything but subtle, it could rattle everything around but still disappear. And this was Willie Dixon playing bass.

Did you audition the Rel T series subs before getting the Strata 2?

I did not audition any of the T subs. But I did have a nice long chat with @raghupb who has a T9i. I have the impression the T9i is a very good sub for music in small to medium rooms. Not sure where to buy one or current cost of a T9i

 

[Beast_of_burden]

Only Avstore.in has the Rel, the T9 is listed for 110k. Hifimart is no longer stocking and they had listed for 89k for a long time. ML 800 is priced at 84k and seems like a bargain. The earlier version without the dsp is 78k. Better priced than the REL right now but there are discounts on offer apparently.


Will keep you posted. I would love to swing by and listen.