Cadence ARCA : opinions please

[Radni14]

Hi everyone !
This is my first post on this forum and I seek some help from guys here.
I have a tube based 2 ch audio system mainly Cary Audio Preamp , Amp , CDP , Bryston DAC , Kimber interconnects and Spk cables. Presently I use Jamo Concert 8 series monitors. I am considering to upgrade speakers to Cadence ARCA. I do not know if at that price point ( Rs. 4.9 lac /pr ) there are other options ( foreign makes ) that can match ARCA . Should I be better off with ARCA or should I consider other makes ? If so What are the options?
Please share your experience and opinions with ARCA.
Thanks

 

[prem]

You could also look at Rethm, Audire, Martin Logan, Magnepan, BGs. I have not heard Audire speakers. But the rest are more agile speakers than the Arca. You can also look at the Quad electrostatic speakers.

 

[hifiashok]

there r (cud be) two schools of thought on this one.

if one goes by the design considerations, reviews and other available inputs on the arca, there are very few reasons not to buy blind.

however, when one is making such a large investment (tho' is a relative sentiment), one MAY want to first hear out all the options and THEN dive.

as an input, prior to 'pantheons [SC1]', cadence built the arca as one of the best speakers ever. i can personally vouch for the ES panel sound, simply love it.

and, welcome to HFV!!

 

[GeorgeO]

Cadence speakers are good, though I am not sure( not sceptical, but uncertain) about the other choices at that price point.ES speakers have a different, but nice sound. I also feel that speakers and amps have synergy, so you should do an audition as Ashok suggested before you invest so heavily, to ensure that they match.

 

[Dr.Bass]

I have heard the Arca and also the other Cadence speakers. So is it a good speaker ? Oh yes, it is a good speaker. Will I put my money on it ? No, I will not. To me it sounded very close to the Cadence Arista but with a bigger and heavier sound, kind of more room filling. Having said that the extra muscle that it brought in comparison to Arista DID NOT add anything to the musicality of the presentation. Rather it sounded lethargic compared to the Arista. This despite being powered by the 200 watt Cadence Canasya.
Basically the improvement in sound quality going from a 1.8L Arista to a 5L Arca was very little (if any). The bottom end extension was better in the Arca owing to the bigger driver but that also meant it was less agile. Also the traditional issue of Cadence speakers of their bass drivers lagging behind the electrosat panel was further highlighted in the Arca. So one would need very high quality power amps to control the drivers of the Arca.

Finally if your listening room is upto 300-350 sqft an Arista will do just fine. But if your room is bigger (400 sqft+) then an Arca is required to fill your room.

Basically if you are open to other speakers in the price range then there are better speakers out there for the money.

 

[G401fan]

Trust your own ears.

But also do your homework first. Don't let anybody else decide for you which are 'better' speakers. So do try and audition as many brands as possible at your price point, and also make sure your Cary amps can suitably drive them to reasonable SPLs that match your room.

If you like the electrostatic sound, then Cadence is a great buy, though you could also consider the Quad 2805s or 2905s. I love my Cadence Avitas, and would certainly recommend them and the other Cadence models, but you must listen before you buy, and your decision should be your own.

 

[dhiman]

Go for Arca. Cadence ES panels are glorious.
Yes, amp matching critical.
I am using the Amayas and very much happy
with it.

 

[Asit]

Radni14,
From the general quality of the electronics you have, it is quite apparent to me that you are well into this hobby. Hence, it is needless for me to say the following, but, in any case let me just say.

When it comes to speakers, nothing should be taken for granted. After all they are the final pieces making the sound that reaches our ears. Hence, no matter how much research I do, how many people recommend a certain speaker, I'd never buy a pair unless I hear them, and preferably with my amp with the kinds of music I listen to. There have been many occasions in my life (and I am involved in this hobby for more than 25 years), when I went to hear some speakers with great expectations (based on reviews, recommendations from friends etc), and I came back not satisfied. I have also discovered that our own evaluations about our own likings sometimes are not correct.

Hence my suggestion is to listen in person.

I have not ever heard the Arcas. From the Cadence stable, I have heard only the Avitas, but several times, for extended sessions. Certainly, they are quality speakers, very refined kind of sound, but I may not own them. That is no reflection on the people who own and love Cadence speakers. People just simply love different sounds. I was introduced to quality 2-channel sound in early to mid 80's through big and tall magnepan speakers which were very open sounding. A close acquaintance of mine had these at his home (placed almost in the middle of his big music room) when I was a graduate student in the US (He also had the Nakamichi Dragon) and I had free access to his system. Later in 1989 when I bought my speakers in Germany, they were very different in design, but the sound was (and still is) very open. This is a very different sound from the Cadence philosophy (assuming the Avitas represent at least to some extent the Cadence philosophy, although the Arcas should be different animals, given their price).

At the price point you are willing to spend, there are tons of possibilities, some of which prem has narrated and I have heard some of them. If you are not exactly sure of the sound you prefer, or you want to discover more about your own preferences, I suggest the least you should do is plan a trip to Bombay which is not exactly very far away from where you live, not these days, and listen to as many speakers as possible from a budget say about 3L and upwards.

Regards.

 

[Radni14]

Thank you all for giving such thoughtful suggestions and views.
I am open to other speakers and not decided on ARCA .
I had heard ARCA in their audition room at Pune factory but that was 6 or7 years ago and that was on all their syastem . I likedthe sound then which I recall to be very detalied and crisp.
In fact I had decided to go to Pune with my Amp ( Actuallu Audio Electronic by Cary
audio, model AE-25 SuperAmp Signature - very heavily upgraded ) to see how it sounds withmy amp.
But now with discussions here , I might be better off auditioning few other speakers also even b4 making a trip to Pune.
I have a feeling that we have to pay a very heavy price for foreign make speakers when we buy in India. So buying an Indian make would generally may tend to give much beeter value for money. Now this is my belief . How far is this true ? Thsi has been one reason which made me to lean towards ARCA.

 

[captrajesh]

I have a feeling that we have to pay a very heavy price for foreign make speakers when we buy in India. So buying an Indian make would generally may tend to give much beeter value for money. Now this is my belief . How far is this true ? Thsi has been one reason which made me to lean towards ARCA.

Not necessarily. Some speakers like Usher are available at international prices here and some have very high mark ups. There was a thread on the cost comparison of various speaker brands in India vis-a-vis abroad. Will search for it and give you the link.

BTW, I heard that Cadence have revised their prices very steeply over a short period.

 

[square_wave]

I have heard the ARCA in two different settings. Once at a demo by Cadence in pretty large hall with top of the line associated gear. It sounded amazing ! Large space and well matched associated gear is key to extract anything out of this speaker. The lower models from cadence are easier to work with and can be made to sing in normal homes. But like Dr Bass mentioned, the speed mismatch is there to a small extent with all these speakers. But this is mostly academic for most people. For electrostatic fans, this is not much of an issue at all. The woofers are not slow as such. They are as fast as the best woofers out there. It is slow compared to the electrostatic panels. This is a known technical issue and not a design fault. The reason for this speaker is to enjoy the glorious midrange and highs from the panel. Most rooms do not have a flat response curve in the bass frequencies in any case and this slowness is just one of the many bass anomalies you will notice in any room.

Great speaker for acoustic, jazz, western classical etc...

 

[arj]

Thank you all for giving such thoughtful suggestions and views.
I am open to other speakers and not decided on ARCA .
I had heard ARCA in their audition room at Pune factory but that was 6 or7 years ago and that was on all their syastem . I likedthe sound then which I recall to be very detalied and crisp.
In fact I had decided to go to Pune with my Amp ( Actuallu Audio Electronic by Cary
audio, model AE-25 SuperAmp Signature - very heavily upgraded ) to see how it sounds withmy amp.
But now with discussions here , I might be better off auditioning few other speakers also even b4 making a trip to Pune.
I have a feeling that we have to pay a very heavy price for foreign make speakers when we buy in India. So buying an Indian make would generally may tend to give much beeter value for money. Now this is my belief . How far is this true ? Thsi has been one reason which made me to lean towards ARCA.

you have got some very good advice in the above posts
Regarding costs, I really am not sure if buying an indian brand will give you that cost benefit today ..that may have been the case in the past. BUt you do have some really nice speakers being made here.

At this price group you have a lot of options and it can be confusing. It would make sense to create a list of spekers and then try to shortlist them down based on reviews/views/recommendations (all taken with the mandatory pinch of salt)

Availability and pricing india is where you can really get some help in this forum !
your amp being a medium powered Tube amp, you have to look for a sensitive speaker which goes well with tubes..making your task a little easier

Spendor might have a good model in your range (sold by Cadence in india)
Blumenhofer Fun range is Amazing in the midrange/overall presentation. they may have a speaker in your range. the dealer is in bangalore and a very nice/knowledgeable guy.
I would recommend Emerald Physics too but not very sure of your amp could run it.
The speakers mentioned by Prem ie Rethm/Audire and I may even add Proac into the list will all work well...it is a question of hearing out for yourself

you also do have an option of making a trip to singapore and buying from there as the cost difference/availability might just make the trip worthwhile

 

[Dr.Bass]

Good point Arj. However Spendor doesnt fall in the same league as the other speakers we are discussing. They are good mid-fi at best.
Blumenhofer and Proac are two very good speaker brands. Both available in India. Unfortunately big speakers are very difficult to import so there is only so much to choose from. What is your room size btw ?

 

[prem]

I did not see that your amp was a Cary tube. So out goes Magnepan and Martin Logan. But as Arj and Dr Bass suggested, Proac and Blumenhofer come in. If you like the single driver sound, Rethm Saadhana is a very good option. I have them and like them very much. I have owned Martin Logan and Cadence earlier but not the Arca.

 

[Asit]

This may be slightly OT, but has anybody here heard the ProAc Carbon series (I am sure some have heard the Response series, especially the D18)? How are the ProaAcs priced here in India?

Regards.

 

[square_wave]

This may be slightly OT, but has anybody here heard the ProAc Carbon series (I am sure some have heard the Response series, especially the D18)? How are the ProaAcs priced here in India?

Regards.

Heard some tidbits from someone who attended some shows last year. They are supposedly very good. The pricing is over the roof too

The response series is where the fun starts with Proac. Give them good quality power or even tubes, they sound quite nice.

 

[Radni14]

Good point Arj. However Spendor doesnt fall in the same league as the other speakers we are discussing. They are good mid-fi at best.
Blumenhofer and Proac are two very good speaker brands. Both available in India. Unfortunately big speakers are very difficult to import so there is only so much to choose from. What is your room size btw ?

My room size is 23ft x 13 ft.
Thanks folks for contributing on this thread. One thing that I have done is not to proceed for ARCA immediately till I try out and study other options as suggested here.
I talked to the guy at the Listening Room , Banglore, for Blumenhofer spkrs. it looks good but they are comparatively new and I do not find them on AudiogoN high-end Audio for sale, high end HiFi classifieds, audiophile auctions, audio forums for reference and on its discussion forum . That would have helped to find opinions on them .
But I like to audition them in Banglore.
Like captrajesh and arj said, price on foreign spkrs in India are NOT always necessarily overpriced compared to prices abroad. I find that out in case of Blumenhofer pricing.
Trip to Singapore is a very good idea and very feasible also. But what about shipment from S'pore to India? and customs clearance ? These are heavy spkrs we are talking about. But pl guide me on this idea.
One more possible name I recall is Von Schweikert VR-4SR . Any dealer in India for this brand ? I had heard them at an audio electronis show in USA ( way back in 2005) and had love it , still have that impact and memory .

 

[captrajesh]

There was a thread on the cost comparison of various speaker brands in India vis-a-vis abroad. Will search for it and give you the link.

This is that thread

 

[arj]

My room size is 23ft x 13 ft.
Thanks folks for contributing on this thread. One thing that I have done is not to proceed for ARCA immediately till I try out and study other options as suggested here.
I talked to the guy at the Listening Room , Banglore, for Blumenhofer spkrs. it looks good but they are comparatively new and I do not find them on AudiogoN high-end Audio for sale, high end HiFi classifieds, audiophile auctions, audio forums for reference and on its discussion forum . That would have helped to find opinions on them .
But I like to audition them in Banglore.
Like captrajesh and arj said, price on foreign spkrs in India are NOT always necessarily overpriced compared to prices abroad. I find that out in case of Blumenhofer pricing.
Trip to Singapore is a very good idea and very feasible also. But what about shipment from S'pore to India? and customs clearance ? These are heavy spkrs we are talking about. But pl guide me on this idea.
One more possible name I recall is Von Schweikert VR-4SR . Any dealer in India for this brand ? I had heard them at an audio electronis show in USA ( way back in 2005) and had love it , still have that impact and memory .

Radni14,
Your room is pretty big so if you intend to use your amp you really need a sensitive speaker. I have a soft spot fo Sonus Faber, but it needs more grunt in amps.
Regarding Blumenhofer and its "awareness" there are many german/french speakers which are really good but not well known outside their country/region as they have a ready market and they are happy being in the niche. it is nice that Jochen is doing that for some german brands. It would have been interesting to see some french brands like JMR/Davis etc in india as they have a certain romanticism about their sound.

Shipment from Singapore to india is not that complex and may not be that expensive.I think there is someone who helps out in that regard in Chennai..he will do door to door for a fixed fee.
Most dealers in singapore are also willing to arrange shipment to india..They are also flexible in the declared value from a custom duty perspective. please speak to Dr Bass..he has done a lot of auditioning/Buying in Singapore.

Another set of speakers you just might like but will need to get shipped from the US are the Green mountain Audio EOS HD and the Merlin VSM.. they will give you a landed cost in India equivalent to their MRP if bought direct. This is not too bad. Both are very well reviewed.
While there are a couple of folks in bangalore with the GMA, i own the smaller Merlin TSM...you are welcome to drop in for a visit while in bangalore..
Speakers like Von Schweikert and Joseph audio were raved about many years back..dont hear too much about them now. unfortunately do not know too much about them

 

[Radni14]

Radni14,


Shipment from Singapore to india is not that complex and may not be that expensive.I think there is someone who helps out in that regard in Chennai..he will do door to door for a fixed fee.
Most dealers in singapore are also willing to arrange shipment to india..They are also flexible in the declared value from a custom duty perspective. please speak to Dr Bass..he has done a lot of auditioning/Buying in Singapore.

arj, Dr.Bass, Capt Rajesh,
If you have handy the contact details of the Chennai based person whi can handle the import shipments , please give me the same.

I am considering to import Sonics by Joachim Gerhard , Model : Allegria , Floor standers. So i need help and services of some import agent who can handle such items.
Also ., I would most welcome, from all contributors here , any opinions and views/comments on this particular speakers Sonics by Joachim Gerhard , Model : Allegria . In particular , any views / comparision of this Allegria versus Blumenhofer FS 3.2 ? I am interested to know as I have kind a shortlisted these two for final decision.
I am not able to audition either of these two , as not possible.