Come on chennai!

[psychotropic]

knowledgeable is waaay too subjective to make any conclusive declaration on. How on earth do you measure that? Okay you know 20 really knowledgeable people who attend the matches... and the crowd in general applauds a beautiful cover drive, or even if a ball is well left......but that's so tiny and anecdotal and incapable of extrapolation that there really is no basis on which to say the cricket crowd at any venue is more knowledgeable than the other.

I've attended cricket matches in Cochin, with no history or tradition or claims of 'knowledge' and found the crowd to be superb, 70,000 people cheering every bit of skilful play whether by the Indians or South Africans/Australians/whoever else. But I would not use that as a basis to say they are any more or less knowledgable than any other crowd.

Now being sporting is somethign you can easily gauge, and throwing bottles and setting fire is clearly unsporting....while a standing ovation for an opposition team is clearly sporting.

You could also talk about atmosphere, and possibly even 'passion'because these are palpable things, but knowledge? let's really not get into that debate, it's just way too subjective.

 

[thevortex]

Actually earlier Bbay was supposed to be a very sporting crowd and there are old timers who always have some lovely stories.
Today with the ticket prices, the endless wait in the serpentine queue, the over flowing urinals, the sometimes unruly crowd I dont know if the guy who truly loves and understands this game ends up at the stadium. Ironically apart from bbay I have been to no other stadiums in India so I cant really comment on the level of spectator comfort.
But no excuses we are not a sporting crowd.

Why will the MCA really look at spectator comfort? Whatever one has to endure I always see packed stands when India plays. Lets hope the revamped Wankhede will be a better place to watch cricket in.
Rgds

Spectator comfort, Dinyaar? What is that? There is nothing called that in our stadiums. Yes, I have never been to Kolkata or Mumbai. I have been only to Chepauk and to Bangalore. But those two experiences were unforgettable for all the wrong reasons. I am willing to bet that things are the same elsewhere.

And we crow about BCCI being the richest board and all that... That is just sad.

Psychotropic - at some level there is a connect between being sporting and being knowledgeable although they certainly need not be the same thing. It takes a knowledgeable crowd to understand that a cricketer cannot perform every single time and desist from booing or from throwing garbage at him. And hence they become sporting - through desisting, so to speak. So, in that sense, those two things are connected.

 

[psychotropic]

That is a very compelling argument. I invite the Kolkata fans to respond

Psychotropic - at some level there is a connect between being sporting and being knowledgeable although they certainly need not be the same thing. It takes a knowledgeable crowd to understand that a cricketer cannot perform every single time and desist from booing or from throwing garbage at him. And hence they become sporting - through desisting, so to speak. So, in that sense, those two things are connected.

 

[Asit]

That is a very compelling argument. I invite the Kolkata fans to respond

I am NOT a Kolkata fan. For that matter I am not a fan of anything, and to tell you frankly I do not like the word "fan" as it is used in the present context.

I wanted to make a comment about folks at some stadium being assumed more knowledegable than folks at other venues. I have seen many Kolkata spectators clapping vigourously when Sir Gary made 71 runs on the 2nd January 1967. I was there. The same is true even today. However, what has changed is the nature of a portion of the crowd. These are the ones, mostly very young, who drive around in localities half-drunk in expensive cars with ICE volume levels at max position in weekends. I think dinyaar may have mentioned similar folks. Now these are the people who usually do not care about anything and anybody, and they do not need to know the game at all, but that does not stop them from making an unnecessary comment which some similar people may pay attention to.

The Kolkata crowd was however always an emotional one. They were the only ones to say: "No Kapil, no test" and they usually would not spare anybody, even including their dear Saurav. Majority of them I also find very very knowledgeable. That is not surprising given the level of awareness in this region.

That's all I wanted to say. It was not my objective to compare different crowds at all. Also, kindly remember that correlations between being knowledgeable and being sporting depends on a a lot of other social and economical factors. West Bengal (especially the region around Kolkata) has one of the highest population densities in the world, and daily massive influxes from neighbouring Bangladesh are taking place even as we speak. Almost every rickshawala is from Bangladesh. Every alternate street vendor that you encounter is from neighbouring states where employments are even more difficult. Kolkata and the adjoining regions are bearing this burden since the partition of the country. My own family migrated from Bangladesh (then East Bengal) before the partition and our family had to take care of many families when they came over pennyless at the time of the partition and sometimes even 20 years after the partition. Go to Siliguri, the table tennis capital of India, and you would see the effect on society and economy even more. It is not easy to judge a particular society on face value because that is only applicable in ideal conditions.

Regards.

 

[sanjub22]

That is a very compelling argument. I invite the Kolkata fans to respond

Perhaps I cant be so polite like experienced Asit Sir ,thats why have an outright inclination to know the source of such comments like "booing or from throwing garbage at him" . Dont know how many times the speaker has seen people are throwing garbage to players in other stadiums in India (read Eden here) other than "sporting,knowledgeable" crowed of Chennai. I know someone will definitely pointout the scenario in 96 World Cup Semifinal vs Lanka at Eden Garden.But being a part of that crowd I know that was done from only one section of the stadium and that shouldnt be considered as a defacto standard of the entire cricket lovers of Calcutta.Same is applicable for Chepauk too. I agree that Pak players received a very touchy applaud from Chennai crowd but that didnt always happen in every test series.In 2001,the great 3rd test, I was present for 4 days in Chepauk. Hayden scored more than 200 in the first innings.... I didnt hear any out of the world applause from crowd....In the 2nd Aus innings M Waugh scored a vary valuable 57 when Vajji was tearing the rest apart. The clapping was even less this time.And when India started to chase 155 and lost the entire middle order including Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly and Lax within 30 runs..... there was a pin drop silence in the stadium.I didnt hear a single applause toward Gillespie or Miller from the entire packed stadium.I can give you some more example as I am fortunate enough to see Test matches in some great venues in UK,Aus and New Zealand.I am observing that people feel envious to see the appreciation in foreign venue.Just have a small request to them, please go ( or ask yr relative or friends ) to any of such cricket stadium in either Aus or England,dont go with an Indian group,take a seat among the foreigners and started cheering your team very loudly,then comeback and tell me your experience. Whatever the cheer we hear from the stadiums abroad are mostly from the Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Sri Lankan crowd,very very few from a english man or not at all from an Aussie or New Zealander.

And regarding life and emotion, Chepauk is still an infant to Eden Garden or Wankhade.Forget about a match, go the previous evening around the stadiums or just watch the crowd going for the match and then compare that with Chepauk.You can feel the spontaneous difference.

 

[sanjub22]

and football has never been called a gentleman's game.

Indeed it is not.... its a strongest manly game in the world with utmost stamina and skill. Its certainly not a gentleman's game where Tea is being served within a match.....not for everybody cool...... I understand.......

 

[thevortex]

That is a very compelling argument. I invite the Kolkata fans to respond

Oh man, why did you have to say this?

Perhaps I cant be so polite like experienced Asit Sir ,thats why have an outright inclination to know the source of such comments like "booing or from throwing garbage at him" . Dont know how many times the speaker has seen people are throwing garbage to players in other stadiums in India (read Eden here) other than "sporting,knowledgeable" crowed of Chennai. I know someone will definitely pointout the scenario in 96 World Cup Semifinal vs Lanka at Eden Garden.But being a part of that crowd I know that was done from only one section of the stadium and that shouldnt be considered as a defacto standard of the entire cricket lovers of Calcutta.Same is applicable for Chepauk too. I agree that Pak players received a very touchy applaud from Chennai crowd but that didnt always happen in every test series.In 2001,the great 3rd test, I was present for 4 days in Chepauk. Hayden scored more than 200 in the first innings.... I didnt hear any out of the world applause from crowd....In the 2nd Aus innings M Waugh scored a vary valuable 57 when Vajji was tearing the rest apart. The clapping was even less this time.And when India started to chase 155 and lost the entire middle order including Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly and Lax within 30 runs..... there was a pin drop silence in the stadium.I didnt hear a single applause toward Gillespie or Miller from the entire packed stadium.I can give you some more example as I am fortunate enough to see Test matches in some great venues in UK,Aus and New Zealand.I am observing that people feel envious to see the appreciation in foreign venue.Just have a small request to them, please go ( or ask yr relative or friends ) to any of such cricket stadium in either Aus or England,dont go with an Indian group,take a seat among the foreigners and started cheering your team very loudly,then comeback and tell me your experience. Whatever the cheer we hear from the stadiums abroad are mostly from the Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Sri Lankan crowd,very very few from a english man or not at all from an Aussie or New Zealander.

And regarding life and emotion, Chepauk is still an infant to Eden Garden or Wankhade.Forget about a match, go the previous evening around the stadiums or just watch the crowd going for the match and then compare that with Chepauk.You can feel the spontaneous difference.

Sanjub - there is nothing to argue about really. One cannot really say that one or the other crowd is more or less knowledgeable. A crowd is a crowd is a crowd.

Indeed it is not.... its a strongest manly game in the world with utmost stamina and skill. Its certainly not a gentleman's game where Tea is being served within a match.....not for everybody cool...... I understand.......

Tea in the midst of the game? Lovely. Just let me know where they are doing this. I just might go and play there.

 

[sanjub22]

Oh man, why did you have to say this?



Sanjub - there is nothing to argue about really. One cannot really say that one or the other crowd is more or less knowledgeable. A crowd is a crowd is a crowd.



Tea in the midst of the game? Lovely. Just let me know where they are doing this. I just might go and play there.

I was referring test cricket man.........Tea break.....

 

[venkatcr]

And regarding life and emotion, Chepauk is still an infant to Eden Garden or Wankhade. Forget about a match, go the previous evening around the stadiums or just watch the crowd going for the match and then compare that with Chepauk.You can feel the spontaneous difference.

Sunjub, I would like to put forward a simple point here.

Agreed the crowd in Chepauk may not be that emotional or mature, game wise, as the crowd in Calcutta or in Mumbai. Being knowledgeable about a game, being involved, being eager is all agreeable. But when the crowd gets restive and then completely loses control - irrespective of where it happens and why it happens - that is not agreeable. Even in UK and elsewhere, crowd favouring one football team or another come to the stadium with predetermined plans to create trouble. Everyone else is put to hardship as are the police.

I attended one of the IPL matches here in Chennai. It took me just a couple of minutes to go in, and find a seat. There were a number of boys sitting in front of me who were standing and screaming all the time. When I spoke to them and requested them to give some respite to their throats, they smiled and subsided. Even the exit was orderly with no pushing and jostling.

At the end of the day we were all very pleasantly surprised and came away after enjoying ourselves and feeling good. That day CSK lost, BTW.

I have regularly attended the Chennai Open Tennis tournament. What happens is the same there also.

In my mind, however emotional you are, if you lose control, you become an unruly mob. Agreed the nonsense is usually started by a few people, but the majority of the visitors should show restraint and not participate in the unruliness. Remember only when this happens can you take your wife and children and enjoy yourselves.

Cheers

 

[sanjub22]

In my mind, however emotional you are, if you lose control, you become an unruly mob. Agreed the nonsense is usually started by a few people, but the majority of the visitors should show restraint and not participate in the unruliness. Remember only when this happens can you take your wife and children and enjoy yourselves.

Agreed Venkat sir..... no question in that.

 

[psychotropic]

hey vortex, we're capable of having a fact-filled and amicable discussion here, as has been demonstrated by asit's and sanju's responses. that was all i wanted to hear. I am very much a neutral on this topic and I know much less than all of you.

Remember, i am the self appointed judge , which is why I was asking to be convinced.

I am not a fan of the anecdotal argument though, which is why I felt that comparing which was more knowledgeable would be a failure, while sporting-ness could be evaluated a bit more clearly in light of well known and universally acknowledged events. But I realise that even that is anecdotal, and we all have our reasons for liking the crowds and the stadia in places where we are from, and there's unlikely to be much of a consensus on these things.

So hey, this matter is adjourned indefinitely

 

[thevortex]

Anecdotal is one thing. Fact is another. Facts bear out that the Chennai crowd has been far more sporting than any other in this country. That much is easy to acknowledge in my opinion. Whether this sporting nature translates to knowledge depends on a lot of factors. But I cannot compare Chennai and Kolkata simply because I have never been to Kolkata.

The argument about the trouble starters being a minority group is true for almost every riot. Precisely the reason why I believe a centre such as Chennai should get more matches. Instead the BCCI is hell bent on scheduling Test matches at completely out of the way centres.

For instance it was a disgrace to see practically nobody at the ground when Tendulkar eclipsed the highest run scorer record at Mohali. That same ground fills up beautfully for a T20 incidentally.

In contrast a Kolkata or a Chennai stadium is almost always full even on a Test match.

 

[mr_grump5]

Agree on the chennai crowd..a close friend of mine who is chargers fans went for the first game at MAC and was clueless when the crowd cheered wildly for gilly..he even asked whether chennai has an identity crisis and then I had to remind him of the pak game )
the crowd is quite unique

 

[nirrej]

Sad to see cricket becoming ungentlemanly too and we cant justify such behaviour drawing parallel to football. If soccer is a religion in europe that doesn't mean we have to create a religion out of cricket.

Why should cricket remain a gentleman's preserve?
isn't it hypocrisy when in a test match the bowler hurls down a 6 ounce leather and cork ball
at the batsman's head(bouncer) with an unholy intention and says "Sorry" if the batsman is hurt.

remember the olden days when the Indian team team was comprised of 6 guys from bombay, 2 from chennai, and others too from clubs of big cities.
Today it is not so. We have a Dhoni, Pathan brothers, and many others like Tiwary who aren't from big cities waiting in the wings. Cricket got democratised with the advent of coloured clothing, T20, etc,etc

IPL is a $4 billion brand only because it shed it's gentlemanly image
and reached out to every Indian. that is good for the game and the nation as a whole. May be bad for a few elitists.

 

[thevortex]

Why should cricket remain a gentleman's preserve?
isn't it hypocrisy when in a test match the bowler hurls down a 6 ounce leather and cork ball
at the batsman's head(bouncer) with an unholy intention and says "Sorry" if the batsman is hurt.

remember the olden days when the Indian team team was comprised of 6 guys from bombay, 2 from chennai, and others too from clubs of big cities.
Today it is not so. We have a Dhoni, Pathan brothers, and many others like Tiwary who aren't from big cities waiting in the wings. Cricket got democratised with the advent of coloured clothing, T20, etc,etc

IPL is a $4 billion brand only because it shed it's gentlemanly image
and reached out to every Indian. that is good for the game and the nation as a whole. May be bad for a few elitists.

Gentleman's game is not the same as elitist's game, is it?

In your above example, it is perfectly fine to compete and bowl a bouncer at the batsman. What is not gentlemanly is to follow it up with enquiries about the fidelity or lack thereof of the batsman's sister or mother.

I was practically aghast at the profanities liberally used by almost all Indians throughout the IPL when they get the batsman out (particularly Indian ones). Popularizing a game is one thing and it is quite different from being good for the game in and of itself. Good for the businessmen of the game, certainly.

 

[Asit]

I do not question at all the possibility that Chennai crowd may be the most sporting and also perhaps the most civil crowd in India.

Personally through watching cricket games on TV, I have a liking for the pitch. Somehow, Mohali takes all the credit for sporting pitches in India, but personally I like the Chennai pitch very much. It is usually hard and bouncy and therefore gives plenty of carry for the faster bowlers at least for the first 3 days of a test match. Sachin has a special association with this ground and probably has the best test average on this ground. Eden Gardens was also known for pace and bounce, a bit of swing in the morning. Lately the pitches at Eden were sort of dead, but for the last two seasons, it is again getting back its previous glory, I think. The Eden outfield if you have not seen it from close is something worth seeing if you are ever in Kolkata. It's just like a carpet, and any good shot if it's in the gap will bring in runs. My son has played in the centre pitch a few times for his under-17 and under-19 practices and also some of the side pitches for the Kolkata senior division league, and naturally fielded in the outfield many many times. He says, especially if you are in the point cover region, the ball comes so fast, that if you are slightly wrong-footed, the ball would beat you.

I was talking about the enthusiasm about sports in Kolkata. The amount of curiosity and respect people have here for any sportsperson, Indian or foreign, is phenomenal. The number of people showing up for foreign team practice is mind-boggling, even now. I remember, I for the first time in 1969, went to see Bill Lawry's Australian team practice at the Eden. I saw Lawry, Stackpole, Ian Chappel, Dougy Walters, Ian Redpath, Paul Sheehan bat in two adjacent nets. The most notable bowler among the Australians was Graham Mackenzie. This was the same series our Gundappa Vishwanath made his debut. In the Eden test, India batted first, and was 0 for 2, and then Vishwanath scored a fantastic 54 before lunch.

I agree that Chennai and Kolkata should get more test matches because seldom you see a vacant seat at these venues even for a dead test match.

BTW, I like to mention Kolkata held two very major international sporting events very successfully, the world TT championship in 1975 (I went there several days, supporting the junior national champ Sujoy Ghorpade), and the World cup (cricket) final in 1987.

Regards.

 

[psychotropic]

I guess both cities have great cricketing traditions, and sporting traditions in general. Kolkata is also the capital of Indian football. Chennai is the capital of Indian motorsport....etc.,

 

[cooltoad]

Why is it that Eden gardens and now Mumbai get the all important matches depending on whether it is Dalmiya or Pawar regime and Chennai doesn't get its due. No one has ever contemplated conducting any semis or finals in chennai. It is a fact that gate collection is not the main source of revenue anymore to justify that the biggest capacity stadium should always get the chance.

We cant compare with Lords or MCG as they are traditional centers irrespective of who is in control.

There has to be a rotational policy on this and should not depend on the where the power center is.

 

[cooltoad]

I totally agree with you Vortex. Gentlemanly means Playing by the rules and abusing the opponents verbally or physically is not. A Roberts or a Marshall were no less gentlemen than Harbhajan or Shreeshanth just because they hurled bouncers at the opponents.

 

[dinyaar]

Gentleman's game is not the same as elitist's game, is it?

In your above example, it is perfectly fine to compete and bowl a bouncer at the batsman. What is not gentlemanly is to follow it up with enquiries about the fidelity or lack thereof of the batsman's sister or mother.

I was practically aghast at the profanities liberally used by almost all Indians throughout the IPL when they get the batsman out (particularly Indian ones). Popularizing a game is one thing and it is quite different from being good for the game in and of itself. Good for the businessmen of the game, certainly.

Totally with u vortex.
Its become a culture among a lot of our bowlers to really give the batsman a verbal send off. Being aggressive, competetive is very different from this

Someone mentioned the great WI pace quartet. Frankly they didnt need to stoop to this. One glare from a Joel garner or a Holding was enough for the poor batsman in those times. Today with modern gear the guy in the helmet feels much more secure.

IMO the IPL is brilliantly marketed. Cricket in our country with all our mega stars, evening games, compressed T 20 format and last but not the least the cheer leaders is surely enough to get bums on seats!! Its not that I dislike it rather I prefer the other longer versions of the game where there is a balance between the bat & the ball and the game is not that batsman friendly.
Rgds