DAC recommendations for RaspberryPI

[indialogue]

Hi guys, am looking to get a DAC for a dedicated RaspberryPI that will act as a WiFi enabled receiver for music streaming from my PogoPlug NAS. My total budget is 10K and I'm open to considering used Ebay/HFV listings as well from reputable sellers. A key requirement is that it should support 88.2 upsampling. Any recommendations for me?

 

[dheerajjotwani]

out of curosity, what will u use on rpi? which image/distro/solution?

 

[indialogue]

out of curosity, what will u use on rpi? which image/distro/solution?

Since its only going to be used for music, am going with a pre-built distro calledRaspyFi

 

[dheerajjotwani]

Great. Me nursing the idea too. To begin with I have a nuforce udac... will give it a try. All the best for your experiment

tapped on Note II cdma

 

[indialogue]

Great. Me nursing the idea too. To begin with I have a nuforce udac... will give it a try. All the best for your experiment

tapped on Note II cdma

Thanks! The experiment is still waiting to get recommendations on good DACs :lol: I've so far shortlisted the HiFiMeDIY Async DAC with offboard power (which is currently out of stock) and the HRT Streamer 2+ (from Ebay). Unfortunately both need to be imported and I'd really prefer some option available in India for less than 10K. My heart wants me to try out the Aune Audio T1, but its outside my budget (which I really want to stick to despite numerous instances of failing :lol

 

[gcpraveen]

how about Nwavguy ODAC???? no first hand experience... suggesting by reviews. even I would like to try.. I am also getting Raspberry soon mostly.

 

[jerin]

You can consider Schiit Modi. I am personally using it along with Raspberry Pi with Xbian OS and MPD as the music server and Mpdroid on Nexus 7 as the client. I cannot compare the sound quality as this is my first DAC, but for sure its much better than playing from my Ipod Nano and I think its a great value for money as it costs only 119$

 

[indialogue]

how about Nwavguy ODAC???? no first hand experience... suggesting by reviews. even I would like to try.. I am also getting Raspberry soon mostly.

It would go over my budget with the current rupee - im talking about the fully boxed model from JDS Labs (plus adding on postage and customs)

You can consider Schiit Modi. I am personally using it along with Raspberry Pi with Xbian OS and MPD as the music server and Mpdroid on Nexus 7 as the client. I cannot compare the sound quality as this is my first DAC, but for sure its much better than playing from my Ipod Nano and I think its a great value for money as it costs only 119$

I'd have been really interested in this but for the price which is going to cross my strict 10K budget after shipping and customs. Was USD119 your landed cost?

 

[jerin]

I bought this when I was in US, the actual price is 99$ and since I was in califoria the taxes were more and the price including taxes came around to 119$. If you have any friends in US, I suggest better buy through them than ordering from here..Else you can look for used DACs in hifivision.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

how about Nwavguy ODAC???? no first hand experience... suggesting by reviews. even I would like to try.. I am also getting Raspberry soon mostly.

I feel that this is a good idea too. Buy the ODAC as a board and build in to the same DIY box?

It is also worth considering that the tiny, cheap computer market is expanding fast, and that the Rasp pi might not be the ideal audio choice. These guys, Community Squeeze, seem to have settled on Wandboard

 

[indialogue]

I feel that this is a good idea too. Buy the ODAC as a board and build in to the same DIY box?

It is also worth considering that the tiny, cheap computer market is expanding fast, and that the Rasp pi might not be the ideal audio choice. These guys, Community Squeeze, seem to have settled on Wandboard

You're absolutely right - I'm now also looking at the Beaglebone Black which has 1.5-2x the performance of the RaspberryPi according to some testers, for just USD10.

My earlier plan was to have my PogoPlug do the transcoding and stream audio to the RPi. I'm changing that plan and am going with the PogoPlug being just a file server, mounted through NFS on the Beaglebone with transcoding being done at its end, as it has more power!

 

[indialogue]

You're absolutely right - I'm now also looking at the Beaglebone Black which has 1.5-2x the performance of the RaspberryPi according to some testers, for just USD10.

My earlier plan was to have my PogoPlug do the transcoding and stream audio to the RPi. I'm changing that plan and am going with the PogoPlug being just a file server, mounted through NFS on the Beaglebone with transcoding being done at its end, as it has more power!

I've dropped the idea of a Beaglebone Black as it does not have a dedicated sound-out. I'd need to find a HDMI converter and I dont want to complicate things further. So sticking to a RPi (just placed the order) and a HiFiMeDIY DAC (bought from HFV forum member yesterday itself). So am all set for now - the real battle will come in setting everything up.

I'm also thinking of creating a custom case for the RPi + DAC boards. Any suggestions on good case manufacturers in Delhi?

 

[s_sachin]

Does the pi have any limitations in its USB out when used with a USB dac in terms of bit rate etc ?

Having settled with odac and audiophile Linux , looking for a small form factor pc.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

This is hearsay and imprecise, and not meant to be FUD: I'm a Linux user too. It is just a caution that research should be done...

1. I heard there were USB audio problems with Raspi. I think I heard it has been fixed in software. I didn't take in detail because I don't have any current Raspi plans.

2. Recent Linux kernels have had some USB Audio problems especially with asynchronous DACs, even as bad as failing to work.

Google has a better memory than I do! Please check these things out if going for LInux audio or Rasp pi.

 

[indialogue]

Does the pi have any limitations in its USB out when used with a USB dac in terms of bit rate etc ?

Having settled with odac and audiophile Linux , looking for a small form factor pc.

Not that I'm aware of. But do keep in mind that Audiophile Linux is not built for a headless unit like the RPi, plus the former is for i386 processors and not ARM processors like you will find in Rpi or Pogoplug. Instead, you will need to look at RaspyFi

This is hearsay and imprecise, and not meant to be FUD: I'm a Linux user too. It is just a caution that research should be done...

1. I heard there were USB audio problems with Raspi. I think I heard it has been fixed in software. I didn't take in detail because I don't have any current Raspi plans.

2. Recent Linux kernels have had some USB Audio problems especially with asynchronous DACs, even as bad as failing to work.

Google has a better memory than I do! Please check these things out if going for LInux audio or Rasp pi.

I've read about these issues as well. So far the main issue seems to be with the quality of power being supplied to the RPi - low quality source will make the board cranky. That's one of the reasons why I am happy to have score the DAC that I did, as it is powered by an external SMPS and the RPi power supply will only have to power the board + an USB WIFI dongle

On 2, you're right again but I made sure that the DAC that I've just purchased has been tested to work with RaspyFi, the audiophile-tuned distro that I will be using for the RPi. I would definitely caution others to verify and verify again before purchasing a DAC unseen for the RPi - so far from what I've read, XMOS-based DACs seem to have a better record of working out of the box with RPi

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

For the recent kernel bugs, where not fixed, all that should be necessary is to run an older version.

I would definitely caution others to verify and verify again before purchasing a DAC unseen for the RPi

I would caution against buying any audio interface for any linux system without making absolutely sure that it will work. It takes a lot of googling. Linuxmusicians forum has a wikki, but, being used by studio people, there are probably not many DACs listed. Computer Audiophile is another source. Ultimately, check with the manufacturer.

An example is my recent high[er]-end ambitions for my headphone listening. I had focussed on the Burson Conductor, and emailed them. No, the USB interface would not work with Linux, they said (and I didn't want to have to add a board just to get toslink out).

Sad but true: we still have to ask Will It Work With Linux before buying peripherals and this is especially true of audio. "Class-compliant" devices are supposed to work, but, for others, it is unlikely that the makers will provide Linux drivers and, for the audiophile, rather than music-making, market, it is unlikely that the community will have the devices to decode. Buyer Beware!

Hats off the the manufacturers who not only make their devices class-compliant, but stick out their necks and say, "Works with Linux." Off hand, I can think of the Juli@ and the ODAC where this is true.

 

[mowgli80]

Does the pi have any limitations in its USB out when used with a USB dac in terms of bit rate etc ?

Looks like RPi has USB 2.0 so theoretically, no limitations on bit rate.

Traditionally, support for fancy sound cards has been a problem on Linux. However, USB protocol is open and USB DACs have a far better chance of working on Linux out of the box, especially with later versions. Some DAC vendors won't officially claim to support Linux to lower their support costs, so I wouldn't go by their word. You can check if the USB chipset being used by the DAC is supported on Linux. With Linux getting more and more popular everyday, lot of USB chipset vendors make sure they are well supported there.

@Thad - Looks like the USB chipset used in Burson(Tenor TE8802) is supported with newer kernels. No guarantee it will work but chances are high .

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thanks, but given the cost, it is far too much of a gamble!

That's an interesting link, the T+A box looks good too, and I like their detailed Linux coverage despite the initial disclaimer. Ouch, about twice my budget.)

Anyway, I've changed course now, an intend to use my humble ODAC, but give it a decent dedicated hp amp to talk through.

 

[indialogue]

I would caution against buying any audio interface for any linux system without making absolutely sure that it will work. It takes a lot of googling. Linuxmusicians forum has a wikki, but, being used by studio people, there are probably not many DACs listed. Computer Audiophile is another source. Ultimately, check with the manufacturer.

You are right. On the RPi and for the RaspyFi distribution alone, I can point to a pretty long list of verified DACs on their website. I think Audiophile Linux also has a listing somewhere. For anything not in these lists, Google is your best friend

 

[indialogue]

So, an update on my experiment. I got the Raspberry Pi a week back along with a not-too-bad solid acrylic case (total cost was INR 3998 delivered). To complete the installation, I also ordered a cheapo WiFi dongle off of Ebay (INR 375), a 5V 1A Apple charger (INR 450), a 4GB SD car (INR 350) and a 2 feet long USB-to-microUSB cable (INR 50). Total cost of install so far - INR 5223.

The next step was to get a USB DAC. I was eyeing the HiFimeDIY Sabre USB DAC 2 External PSU, 96khz/24bit - ES9023+TE7022 + Coaxial OUT TCXO oscillator as a cheap first-step into the DAC world (though I did look at ODAC, Schiit Modi, Aune T1 as options). Thankfully I was able to get this from a FM here, as I was not looking forward to go through the whole rigmarole of international shipping + customs delay and uncertainty. This DAC cost me INR4200, so total cost of install so far - INR 9423.

Then a very straight forward install of RaspyFi v1.0 image on to the SD car, However, thats where the smooth sailing ends.

WiFi is very flakey - because of the low power on the system, don't expect a good connection if you are more than 10-20 feet away from your router (and with walls in between). You will see outrageous 100+ ms ping times (on a local network!), dropped packets and audio at times. You have to carry the Pi around like a divining rod to find a good location - thankfully I was able to find one pretty close to my amp and speaker setup.

Other than that, an issue that might be related to the DAC is that putting it to max volume results in some hiss and crackle being created. My next plan is to hook up the DAC to a headphone amp (a Project Ocean Bravo from another FM) and use it either for headphones or as a preamp to connect to my amplifier.

After this experience, I do think that getting a board with more power (Beaglebone Black + separate power rails for audio) and/or inbuilt WiFi (A13-Olinuxino-WiFi available for 6K in India, Wandboard Dual or Pandaboard) is a much better option than the Raspberry! And finally, at the full cost of such options, you might even be able to get a good condition Squeezebox Classic (with display!) from Ebay