DAC Required ?

[sriee]

Hi Experts,

I have my Denon AVR 3313 connected to a Sherbourn Power Amp which is connected to my KEF Q series speakers.

I play all music from my iMac/iPad/iPhone through the Apple TV that is connected to the Denon. The music is downloaded from iTunes, hence, its more of Apple Lossless format.

I still feel that the music can be really more clear and bright and detailed. So, would adding a DAC make more sense or that's stupid.

I was actually thinking to connect the Apple TV Co-Ax Out to the DAC Co-Ax IN. But then, is Denon doing the same function as the DAC ???

Please clarify.....

Cheers!!!

 

[Safar]

I had a lot of music from iTunes which I used to play from my iPAD to my Stereo setup using a very normal Dock. As you observed, there was a lot of " music " missing and was more like amplified iPad sound. Adding a DAC of your taste to the chain will definitely have visible improvements (At least my experience) irrespective of the source file was of compressed formats such as MP3 or AAC. Even i Devices can play high quality ALAC files upto 96 Khz.

But If you are going to use Denon AVR as the Pre- Amp and adding the DAC in the chain, Better to listen from other FM's

 

[sriee]

But If you are going to use Denon AVR as the Pre- Amp and adding the DAC in the chain, Better to listen from other FM's

Thanks for your reply...

What does this statement mean ???

If I am right, what you mean is, the sound quality from a DAC is a lot more good than using a Denon.

So, what would be right for me now.....

Pls. explain.....

 

[manniraj]

Yes a dedicated DAC gives better clarity and output compared to your Denon receiver's inbuilt DAC not irrespective of the source files. The lossless files like ALAC/FLAC definitely sound better with a dedicated DAC but the normal MP3 will still sound crap as the saying goes garbage in so garbage out.
Try and audition the same at any dealer or FMs setup. I have recently purchased a MF V-DAC MKii to use its coaxial input and it has made lots of difference to my existing setup.

 

[sriee]

Thanks ManniRaj...

So, if I were to include a DAC, I can connect my Apple TV Co-Ax OUT to the DAC's Co-Ax OUT which will connect ONLY to the Floor standing Stereo Speakers. So, This will make my Music played from iDevices to be DAC'ed and then played in my stereo speakers. So, can I not listen in Multi channel if I want to ..???

But, how about my movies,. how will the sound for my movies from my BD Player go to my front floor standing speakers...

Im just confused about the outputs for my Music and for my movies when I use a DAC.. :sad:

Pls. make me understand....

 

[manniraj]

As you are going to use your Denon receiver then the Apple TV's coaxial out -> DAC coaxial In -> Denon receiver RCA input -> FS Speakers. This the setup you have to use for the stereo playback and your movie playback you can still continue to use your HDMI ports where the Denon will do the audio processing job for 5.1 channel. You continue to use the existing speakers as is but just that you are now avoiding using the Denon inbuilt DAC with a dedicated DAC. Did I make it clear.

 

[Safar]

Thanks for your reply...


If I am right, what you mean is, the sound quality from a DAC is a lot more good than using a Denon.


Pls. explain.....

If I understand , your chain will be iPod /pad -> DAC -> AVR??? -> Power AMp -> Speakers.

So I was wondering If you are planning to use your AVR as the pre-Amp in the chain. I don't know if it works that way. Even if it works, sound quality may not improve as the pre-amp influence the sonic characteristics. So I was suggesting to wait for comments from other FMs who might be knowing it better.

Probably you would go for a DAC with Pre-Amp like Emotiva !!

 

[sriee]

As you are going to use your Denon receiver then the Apple TV's coaxial out -> DAC coaxial In -> Denon receiver RCA input -> FS Speakers. This the setup you have to use for the stereo playback and your movie playback you can still continue to use your HDMI ports where the Denon will do the audio processing job for 5.1 channel. You continue to use the existing speakers as is but just that you are now avoiding using the Denon inbuilt DAC with a dedicated DAC. Did I make it clear.

Yeah... Im getting a picture of what you are saying...Sounds right to me...Let me re-run the idea couple of times...

Thanks ManniRaj

 

[Tanoj]

Even if it works, sound quality may not improve as the pre-amp influence the sonic characteristics. So I was suggesting to wait for comments from other FMs who might be knowing it better.

on Dot....

the Dac will process the signal comping from the source ( i pad, HTPC, BDP etc ), and when it goes into avr pre, it will sond as it was before, with the same sound signature , because as far as i know it is the pre section of amp which defines the sound signature

insted i suggest you get a Pass B1 pre amp from sachin, and bypass the pre of denon , i mean use denon as power amp

i am sure you will love it

so the chain will be source > dac > Pass B1 pre amp > Denon Power amp > speakers

Add a source selector into the B1, so you may select between Blu ray or i pad etc

Tanoj

 

[sriee]

If I understand , your chain will be iPod /pad -> DAC -> AVR??? -> Power AMp -> Speakers.

So I was wondering If you are planning to use your AVR as the pre-Amp in the chain. I don't know if it works that way. Even if it works, sound quality may not improve as the pre-amp influence the sonic characteristics. So I was suggesting to wait for comments from other FMs who might be knowing it better.

Probably you would go for a DAC with Pre-Amp like Emotiva !!

Yup, your understanding is correct Safar.

Incase of going for one like a Emotiva pre-Amp, Will it be as good as using a dedicated DAC ? and in that case, how will my connections look like with Denon AVR in picture...

 

[sriee]

As you are going to use your Denon receiver then the Apple TV's coaxial out -> DAC coaxial In -> Denon receiver RCA input -> FS Speakers. This the setup you have to use for the stereo playback and your movie playback you can still continue to use your HDMI ports where the Denon will do the audio processing job for 5.1 channel. You continue to use the existing speakers as is but just that you are now avoiding using the Denon inbuilt DAC with a dedicated DAC. Did I make it clear.

Manniraj,.. forgot to check with you...when you say, "DAC coaxial In -> Denon receiver RCA input ->",,.. going through Denon again,.. will the Denon process the DAC's output again or will Bypass the processing part.

Thanks

 

[manniraj]

Manniraj,.. forgot to check with you...when you say, "DAC coaxial In -> Denon receiver RCA input ->",,.. going through Denon again,.. will the Denon process the DAC's output again or will Bypass the processing part.

Thanks

Well I said that Apple TV coaxial out -> DAC coaxial in -> DAC RCA out -> Denon receiver RCA input and make sure that you use the option to set "Direct" or something similar to this whereby the receiver will not process anything apart from just taking the DAC RCA input thru RCA and plays as is.

I used this setup earlier with my Yamaha 571 receiver before I got a dedicated stereo amplifier.

 

[sriee]

Ohh ok ok, I understood.

When I choose "media Player" as my Input Source in my Denon, I have an option "direct". I guess that should help.

Thanks Buddy...

So the next question would be .... which DAC ??? Anything that you would like to recommend...???

Cheers!!!

 

[manniraj]

And now thats the most difficult part as it depends on your budget, your listening style and most importantly what you like. So do read the online reviews by shortlisting based on your budget and then if possible try to audition them and also borrow from FMs any DACs in your city and try out in your setup.

 

[Santy]

Even in direct mode, the signal passes through the preamp section of the AVR. So it is best to bypass the AVR completely. Either a DAC with inbuilt preamp or a good preamp can be used. Pass B1 also is a good idea. It is a very transparent pre.

 

[sriee]

Even in direct mode, the signal passes through the preamp section of the AVR. So it is best to bypass the AVR completely. Either a DAC with inbuilt preamp or a good preamp can be used. Pass B1 also is a good idea. It is a very transparent pre.

Santy,

What difference does a DAC with a "Pre-Amp" do ??? i mean, how different it is from just a DAC. ??

For example, the Emotiva XDA-2 (http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xda2)... it says its a USB DAC and Pre-Amp. Does that mean, it acts as a DAC only for USB sources and for the rest it's a Pre-Amp ?

Cheers!!!!

 

[Safar]

Ohh ok ok, I understood.

So the next question would be .... which DAC ??? Anything that you would like to recommend...???

Cheers!!!

Look at the sales thread, there are few good DAC on sale !

 

[Santy]

Santy,

What difference does a DAC with a "Pre-Amp" do ??? i mean, how different it is from just a DAC. ??

For example, the Emotiva XDA-2 (XDA-2 USB DAC/Digital Preamp/Headphone Amp | Emotiva Audio Corporation | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel )... it says its a USB DAC and Pre-Amp. Does that mean, it acts as a DAC only for USB sources and for the rest it's a Pre-Amp ?

sriee

This is a DAC which can accept coaxial, optical as well as USB.
Normally all external DACs accept coaxial and optical.
USB is actually considered as an additional input. So they call it as USB DAC to emphasize that feature. Over a period of time, I think manufacturers would stop prefixing 'USB' to their external DACs.

If it has also got a preamp, it means that it has a gain stage, volume control and has impedance matching at output which is necessary to connect to a power amp. Note that the preamp in some DACs are actually meant for driving headphones so they may not be ideal for a direct power amp connection.

 

[sriee]

Santy,

Can you pls. . check the Emotiva XDA-2 and lemme know, if its suitable for my requirement....

XDA-2 USB DAC/Digital Preamp/Headphone Amp | Emotiva Audio Corporation | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel

Cheers

Thanks Santy...

 

[asliarun]

sriee

This is a DAC which can accept coaxial, optical as well as USB.
Normally all external DACs accept coaxial and optical.
USB is actually considered as an additional input. So they call it as USB DAC to emphasize that feature. Over a period of time, I think manufacturers would stop prefixing 'USB' to their external DACs.

If it has also got a preamp, it means that it has a gain stage, volume control and has impedance matching at output which is necessary to connect to a power amp. Note that the preamp in some DACs are actually meant for driving headphones so they may not be ideal for a direct power amp connection.

Sriee, please see my signature. As Santy said, I have a DAC+preamp. It can be run as a dedicated DAC or as a DAC+preamp (also has high gain and low gain settings). I find this a significant improvement on my previous setup where I was using Squeezebox Classic as a source and DAC, and was using Emotiva USP1 as a preamp. The Audio-GD DAC's preamp is actually much better than the Emotiva preamp!

Another thing to note is that the Audio-GD volume control operates in the analog domain which means that no resolution is lost when you reduce the volume, and unlike many other DACs with volume controls, the volume control works very well for feeding into a power amp (in a stereo setup), or for driving headphones.