DIY Speakers - Are they worth the effort

Hari Iyer

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My experience with building completely on my own has been ups and downs with initially lack of complete understanding of various technical terms and the capability to have them measured. After many tweaks, trial and errors it was still difficult to know whether it sounded how it was suppose to sound. With the discovery of simulators and measuring software it again become complicated as it was needed to understand the holistic view of these and implement the same. In my current TL FS speakers, I would have done over 25 simulations and have implemented close to 11 of them in the cross-over to get them right (IMO) and have used reference speakers to compare its performance. I have yet to meausure them for their linearity.

The challenges i have faced when implementing the crossovers were,
1. Component tolerance:- I have measured even good polyester capacitors having tolerance of over 20% of their printed value. I have meausred 4.7
microfarad to have capacitance only 3.7 micorfarad. So you can imagine how deep will be the phase shift. Same for resistors having atleast 5% to 15% of tolerance - again cause level matching issues, impedance and phase issues. Inductors when wound will have to be measured as these can be source for further phase shift.

2. Getting the filter phase accurate for both the low pass and high pass filter. Since i mostly only use first order filters, the phase shift between them is seldom 90 deg. I am still struggling to get the high pass filter phase shift exactly to 90 deg.

3. Driver published and actual measured parameters: This challenge cannot be solved easily as if you work with the driver published parameter there are 90% chances that your cross-over will be incorrect. I have noticed atleast 25% to 30% difference in FR curve for the published and measured parameter. Free-air impedance and FR curve will be different once you mount the drivers in the box and will display different behavior all-together to the cross-over again further adding to the phase shift.

4.Getting the correct box volume and tuning, damping, stiffness for the box is another challenge which needs to be addressed which other wise can cause panel resonance, high acoustic impedance.

My current speaker took me over 6 months to get them to the current level when i began designing and yet it requires measurement and endorsement from other listeners to compliment its performance. I am sure most of the budget speakers and the so call expensive speakers will also not follow such stringent design cycle, iterations, tweaking, simulations and measurments due to cost reasons. This bring back the question whether to DIY or Not to DIY. IMO if you have the resources (read information) to do all these painful exercise and still want to enjoy doing all of this then do DIY. But never DIY if you think you can build a published design and get the same performance due to the factors mentioned above. The first basic investment i would say if you DIY is to buy a good quality LCR meter to measure the component values in absence of which it will be like firing in the dark. Most of the simulators and measurement software are freewares and can be downloaded. You still will require to invest in measurement microphones and good quality sound card. BTW, these investments could be quite high than buying a ready made speaker over the shelf.

Some one had said earlier - "The best speakers are the one which are never bought but are the ones that are made."

Will like other FM to share their DIY journey.

Cheers,
 
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I am all for DIY speakers. Ofcourse what Hari said about knowledge and resources is very true. They are mandatory. I have built multiple speaker systems over the years and some of them turned out well and some haven't. Off late my hit rate has been very good, thanks to availability of info and measuring devices.

IMO DIY speaker building is not for casual builders if you want truly good product. Considerable study, planning and resources are required to build a good one.

Cheers
 
If your only intention is to get a VERY good speaker to listen to your music then it is not worth the time / trouble /money to DIY it yourself.
Good brands do so much measurement/testing/comparing that you could never hope to achieve the same perfection in a reasonable length of time and at a sensible cost.
If you include DIY into making kits from professionals who design them and offer everything, then maybe DIY will get you something decent at an affordable price. But often good DIY speaker kits 'are not cheap' !

You should have a passion for doing DIY. Call it madness or drive or passion. But the reason shouldn't be to 'make a quick good system' at very low cost ! Cost is also relative. For some 15K is expensive for others 15 lakhs is OK ! It's always relative.

So should you DIY ? It involves LOTS of time , 'learning' , money,disappointments,waste of materials and being yelled at by people at home etc. Maybe also damaging or dirtying the floor/room and lots of wood working noise and associated dust. After all that if you feel really great , then maybe you could DIY.

The chances that what you make will not be so great is high , but the fact that it will give you a lot of pleasure is probably most important.

Like I said, if the reason is just to 'listen' to a great system them go out and buy a good speaker and spend time browsing through music and build up your music collection ! ;)
You might save a lot of time and money !:)

Don't forget to visit your friends who are slogging at it to build their speaker without understanding them fully and struggling with measurements etc.. Sit with them and drink their booze and give them encouragement. So as long as they are busy you can drink their booze and watch them and have a good time. When the booze runs out you can find a new 'builder' who you would have met through this 'builder. Everyone gets something out of the 'passion' ! And it goes on and on.......:D
 
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Well one has to choose I guess. On one hand you have hard to understand techie books being read by guys with fading memory ;) , lots of dust, glue sticking everywhere, noise, waste material in piles , endless cutting and modifying , measuring multiple times, numerous comparisons ,being yelled at for being late for food and other things., endless unexpected expenses ,etc. ........
and on the other hand , plenty of lovely hooch, a comfortable chair, nice music, peace and quiet !
You take your pick ! :D
 
Don't forget to visit your friends who are slogging at it to build their speaker without understanding them fully and struggling with measurements etc.. Sit with them and drink their booze and give them encouragement. So as long as they are busy you can drink their booze and watch them and have a good time. When the booze runs out you can find a new 'builder' who you would have met through this 'builder. Everyone gets something out of the 'passion' ! And it goes on and on.......:D

Where does one sign up to be a part of the moral support brigade. I really liked the job description!!:yahoo:
 
I've been quite clear about building kits designed by highly experienced professionals (Joe D'Appolito, Phil Bamberg, Mike McCall) who have the credentials and experience, as opposed to trying to invent the wheel. I've used the best drivers available-Scanspeaks, Ravens, Focals, that money can buy, and some of them have been commercial offerings that have been reviewed. Please note, these don't come cheap, and Anil's views definitely are on the button..

By and large my experience has been pretty gratifying, as compared to getting these from the US( a near impossible option). Along the way the fun, the knowledge gained and entering into otherwise not possible "high end " audio has made the whole thing quite worthwhile for me.

The last project-my Altecs has been a different experience using vintage drivers, but fun, nonetheless.

In contrast to the above, I feel for those FMs who, lacking testing gear and experience as well as access to good quality drivers and crossover components want to "roll their own". I dont want to discourage people, so I keep my opinions to myself.
 
once I was also planned to do DIY speaker build.I have collected the cost of drivers mostly Scanspeaks have to import ,cost will be very higher side.Cabinet we can build here.Very good drivers cost a lot and most difficult part is crossover design and there parts like hi end mkp and resistors.

When you compare this all, Cost will be on higher side than branded one so I dropped it.

Now I feel it was very good decision......:)
 
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And here in India, the right stuff is not just available easily, not at the right time and sometimes you pay thru your nose.

Its very easy to burn your hard earned $$$$ in DIY and you may be getting nowhere.....

I have the opposite problem in the US. I find lots of high end speakers with trashed or water damaged cabinets. I pulled 4 EV 15" speakers out of a cabinet that had so many scratches on them, and someone sprayed with bed liner paint, and then got more scratches. It looked awful. But I pulled the speakers out and threw the rest away. I needed to put it in my EV-Khorn.

Carpenters are hard to find and $$$ in the US. LOL. Hense DIY isn't feasible economically.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
What if a DIYer like me (DIYer for the last many many years) is your typical type (as mentioned above) but is a Teetotaler ????? :D:D:D

Well you can drink other types of drinks and eat up all the munchies ! :D
Learn to raid the pantry and fridge regularly, as many of my friends do !
Yeah, your expenses go up but the company is priceless ! :D
 
Carpenters are hard to find and $$$ in the US. LOL. Hense DIY isn't feasible economically.

Cool.
Srinath.

Hi Srinath,
When I was in Troy, MI, suburb of detroit I had a decent woodworking setup in my garage. I built a 20' x 12' ht room in my basement (about 12 years ago) for about $4k (studs, dry wall, drop ceiling and some cabinets) and about $2k (I had a table saw, some circular saws, pneumatic nail gun, sanders etc) in woodworking tools. I got a quote from the local handyman and others for about $12-$15k. I could build a great many things with the $2k setup, of course I never tried speakers (not handy with electronics DIY for x-overs etc), but I built eqpt.racks some stuff for the house etc. I was also planning to take a woodworking class at the local community college. So DIY is feasible only if you really DIY.
BTW I went to school in Raleigh at NC state and lived in Greensboro as well in the early nineties. Been to Charlotte a few times also.
Cheers,
Sid
 
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Hi Srinath,
When I was in Troy, MI, suburb of detroit I had a decent woodworking setup in my garage. I built a 20' x 12' ht room in my basement (about 12 years ago) for about $4k (studs, dry wall, drop ceiling and some cabinets) and about $2k (I had a table saw, some circular saws, pneumatic nail gun, sanders etc) in woodworking tools. I got a quote from the local handyman and others for about $12-$15k. I could build a great many things with the $2k setup, of course I never tried speakers (not handy with electronics DIY for x-overs etc), but I built eqpt.racks some stuff for the house etc. I was also planning to take a woodworking class at the local community college. So DIY is feasible only if you really DIY.
BTW I went to school in Raleigh at NC state and lived in Greensboro as well in the early nineties. Been to Charlotte a few times also.
Cheers,
Sid

Nice, G'Boro then michigan, cool.
Well the garage already has motorcycles and all the audio stuff stored in there.
Worse yet, I have no wood working skills. No aptitude to learn that either. I am a metal guy by nature.
If I have to make speaker cabinets, the thing will be wood planks screwed onto a steel or aluminum frame.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
Nice, G'Boro then michigan, cool.
Well the garage already has motorcycles and all the audio stuff stored in there.
Worse yet, I have no wood working skills. No aptitude to learn that either. I am a metal guy by nature.
If I have to make speaker cabinets, the thing will be wood planks screwed onto a steel or aluminum frame.
Cool.
Srinath.

Good, a lot of aluminium being used in spkrs. nowadays. I would call that advanced diy I guess.
Cheers
Sid
 
Good, a lot of aluminium being used in spkrs. nowadays. I would call that advanced diy I guess.
Cheers
Sid

:lol:

nice topic started there hari..

i suppose your own experience in DIY would have told you many things with the good FM's mentioned before the thread started to go astray.

DiY is easier to conceptualize and harder to implement mainly because we need to train ourselves to measure and also to play by the ear at the same time.

Acoustics are a bit strange because it is not measurement alone and if it were so then there would be no art left in speaker manufacturing.

I suppose the 80:20 rule applies here too

80 - measure
20 - play it by the ear ( graphs dont make sense here )

I have seen & heard your DiY efforts and also Kapvin's and i look forward to hearing the Darbari as well when time permits.

Kapvin had taken DiY to another level with his DiY active floorstanders before he left the country on work.

In all the threads the problems are common - sourcing of parts, measuring and finishing.

What would also be advantageous to a DiY'er is some knowledge of playing a musical instrument or atleast to attend live concerts - to understand what instrument sounds are really like.

regards
mpw
 
I would take DIY Route...for me DIY speakers definitely sound better than branded..

Commercial speakers = MONEY & Compact(small) and good looks

DIY = MONEY(Here as well) & large & not so good looking

But the rule is simple...we cant beat physics bigger the better...

This i have tasted with Econowaves..my large 12inch pro drivers and compression driver sound so beautiful and clear with out any strain, which i think normal 4 inch or 5 inch low sensitivity drivers would never do.

So if we accept the size and looks factor I would go for DIY.


And also its simple...this weekend i go booze,go for a movie, next weekend i go for a function...but there will be definitely days when there is nothing you will have on hand to do some thing. IMO its better to have a hobby where you can spend your money and time thought fully in the area you are interested...other wise just a modern age busy man with booze and movies...ha..ha..


Hey i am also going for DIY roof gardening to keep myself occupied...very soon


Finally....most of us who dont have project on hand...sitting at office or on mobile or at home at our free time definitely come to audio forums especially the DIY one's...you know why...? .... that is why DIY...:)
 
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:lol:


DiY is easier to conceptualize and harder to implement mainly because we need to train ourselves to measure and also to play by the ear at the same time.

Acoustics are a bit strange because it is not measurement alone and if it were so then there would be no art left in speaker manufacturing.

Cant agree more.

Here is where simulation comes as a big help. Most DIYers do not simulate the design before building them. My own cost of building DIY projects have come down by 90% with these simulators as i can do various what-if scenarios even before buying the drivers. Hence i will add 'Simulation' before building & measuring as an important criteria in speaker building.

Recently i measured my micro-TL speaker using a balanced input condenser mic and a professional sound card and found the simulated and measured response within 5% difference.
 
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