Garrard 301 takes off

[sachu888]

You can also consider some excellent MMs for your lower mass arm like Sonus Blue,Ortofon Om20/30/40.They all are very high compliance and will suit low mass arms.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[stevieboy]

Sachu,

He's got an Sme 3012 which is not low mass

Regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sachu888]

Sachu,

He's got an Sme 3012 which is not low mass

Regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oops sorry,thanks Steve for correction.

Regards
Sachin

 

[arj]

Dear Stieve,
Thanks for the useful information. What would be the price of a 103. I think it is sub $200 according to a friend of mine. What mod will zu audio do to make it sound better?
regds
kuruvilajacob

I would also suggest you get the 103. the 103R is a little bit more analytical i have just got it and is breaking in..but while breaking in I preferred the 103.
i got mine from a seller in the US who was sellling for 170USD

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Steive,

I think I made the right choice using the cudappa stone plinth. It did not sound good with Goldring cart. I changed the cart to Grado Prestige Black and it seems to match the new plinth better than the former. My daughter came last weekend and was more impressed with my AR the turntable with RB 250 arm (modified) with cardas wiring and Shure 91 ED cart. I felt Shure Carts added a little coloration and was better for recordings of the eighties while the LPs of the seventies sounded better on the 301. I prefer to play rock music on my Technics SL-1200 and the new 180 gram records on Denon DP-60L with Pioneer MC 5 cart.
Just wanted to share how different TTs sound for particular type of music
Regards
kuruvilajacob

 

[sutlhynt]

Hi stevieboy. Well done. About the same time as you I refurbished a garrard grey greasebearing schedule 1 301. See my detailed post elsewhere on this site. Cheers!!

 

[reubensm]

Steive,

I think I made the right choice using the cudappa stone plinth. It did not sound good with Goldring cart. I changed the cart to Grado Prestige Black and it seems to match the new plinth better than the former. My daughter came last weekend and was more impressed with my AR the turntable with RB 250 arm (modified) with cardas wiring and Shure 91 ED cart. I felt Shure Carts added a little coloration and was better for recordings of the eighties while the LPs of the seventies sounded better on the 301. I prefer to play rock music on my Technics SL-1200 and the new 180 gram records on Denon DP-60L with Pioneer MC 5 cart.
Just wanted to share how different TTs sound for particular type of music
Regards
kuruvilajacob

Think that's a valid point, I somehow felt the Technics SL series was better suited for music with high tempo and heavy beats....dunno why and cant explain but my Deep Purple records just seem to sound link junk on my friend's Music Hall but they sound awesome on my SL3200, we both use the same cartridge and similar amplification.

 

[malvai]

dunno why and cant explain but my Deep Purple records just seem to sound link junk on my friend's Music Hall but they sound awesome on my SL3200, we both use the same cartridge and similar amplification.

The SL decks are DD's-- means high torque. The music hall TT's are mi-fi belt driven TT's. very low torque.

That MAKES the diff!

 

[Tanoj]

IMO Torque is required to kick start the spinn ,

more torque helps to start the spin from 0 - 33 rpm asap

however iam really not sure how it would add to the sound quality

Tanoj

 

[malvai]

Higher torque somehow gives the music more slam and authority. I can't explain it to you scientifically, but only as a listener...

having lived with a DD (technics sl1300 & 1200 mk2) for over 12 years, belt drives (Project 2 xpressionIII & Clearaudio Ambient) for 3+ years and now a idler drive (Garrad 401), i'd say that the DD's and the idlers really do have a different presentation. More upfront, lively and authority. The belt drives are smooth sounding...

Overall, the DD's and the idlers are a lot more fun!

 

[jls001]

Higher torque somehow gives the music more slam and authority. I can't explain it to you scientifically, but only as a listener...

having lived with a DD (technics sl1300 & 1200 mk2) for over 12 years, belt drives (Project 2 xpressionIII & Clearaudio Ambient) for 3+ years and now a idler drive (Garrad 401), i'd say that the DD's and the idlers really do have a different presentation. More upfront, lively and authority. The belt drives are smooth sounding...

Overall, the DD's and the idlers are a lot more fun!

I can relate to this experience. My previous TT (which I still have) is the Thorens TD 160 B Mk II. It is a belt drive, and gets to speed rather glacially. It is quite musical though, and I liked its sound despite the less than good arm on it (ADC LFM2, a very low-mass carbon fiber arm for high compliance cartridges) and the modest Shure M44-7 cartridge I used.

When I finally got my Thorens TD 124 up and running, all forms of music seemed to be livelier and seemed to play with a bit more pace than I'm used to. I have often got up and checked if the speed is true or not! The 124 is a very high torque turntable and the PRaT is awesome. I have been often startled by the sheer dynamics of it. One particular record comes to mind - "New Year's Day Concert in Vienna" by the Vienna Philharmonic conducted by Willi Boskovsky (1979, digitally recorded).

I am told the Garrard 301 and 401, and even Technics SP10 plays the same way. I would believe even the EMT 938 would have similar sonics.

 

[himadri]

Higher torque somehow gives the music more slam and authority. I can't explain it to you scientifically, but only as a listener...

having lived with a DD (technics sl1300 & 1200 mk2) for over 12 years, belt drives (Project 2 xpressionIII & Clearaudio Ambient) for 3+ years and now a idler drive (Garrad 401), i'd say that the DD's and the idlers really do have a different presentation. More upfront, lively and authority. The belt drives are smooth sounding...

Overall, the DD's and the idlers are a lot more fun!

Having now shifted to a JVC DD from a Technics belt drive , the liveliness of the JVC is clearly noticeable especially the midbass and lowerbass slam and tightness.It was an eye opener.
Cheers
himadri

 

[malvai]

Having now shifted to a JVC DD from a Technics belt drive , the liveliness of the JVC is clearly noticeable especially the midbass and lowerbass slam and tightness.It was an eye opener.
Cheers
himadri

which is why i constantly iterate that in audio paper spec is not everything! it has to be heard to be believed!

 

[stevieboy]

When I finally got my Thorens TD 124 up and running, all forms of music seemed to be livelier and seemed to play with a bit more pace than I'm used to. I have often got up and checked if the speed is true or not!

Me too! It takes some getting used to initially.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

When it comes timing, the higher torque of Idlers is superior to belt drive TTs. I don't know about Technics 1210 series, but the original Technics 1200 is definitely superior to belt drive and can match up to many of the Iders. I prefer to listen to Pink Floyd on SL 1200 as a drummer friend says the drum beat on SL 1200 sounds most natural. I have not compared it to Garrard 301 yet but I think it will be also good. Only the bigger idler wheel really impressed me for its performance and not the thinner idlers
kuruvilajacob

 

[Dr.Bass]

While the Technics is a well known table and may even achieve cult status but I do not understand why it is not preferred by audiophiles, especially those who consider Rega, Pro-ject, music hall and the likes. I have never heard a 1210 but I hear from known sources that it sounds very organic yet with great pace. And the fact that it doesnt have much to setup is huge bonus I suppose. Any thoughts ?

 

[Dr.Bass]

I am told the Garrard 301 and 401, and even Technics SP10 plays the same way. I would believe even the EMT 938 would have similar sonics.

Sorry to disappoint you sir, when an EMT plays every other turntable feels like they are silent. No comparison between an EMT and any other TTs discussed here. It is the grand daddy of all DDs.

 

[jls001]

While the Technics is a well known table and may even achieve cult status but I do not understand why it is not preferred by audiophiles, especially those who consider Rega, Pro-ject, music hall and the likes. I have never heard a 1210 but I hear from known sources that it sounds very organic yet with great pace. And the fact that it doesnt have much to setup is huge bonus I suppose. Any thoughts ?

There are tons of mods for the twelve hundred that can elevate the sound - better tonearm (like Origin Live's line of mods for Rega RB251 arms specifically for the 1200), better damping (using Dynamat or Dynamat-like materials), using better, non-DJ cartridges, etc. Further bonus about the 1200 is it is most likely to outlive its poor owner

 

[malvai]

While the Technics is a well known table and may even achieve cult status but I do not understand why it is not preferred by audiophiles, especially those who consider Rega, Pro-ject, music hall and the likes. I have never heard a 1210 but I hear from known sources that it sounds very organic yet with great pace. And the fact that it doesnt have much to setup is huge bonus I suppose. Any thoughts ?

Dr. Bass, human nature wired very weirdly... if you look at the idler TT history, you'll find that the audiophiles junked their idler drives in the 80s for the belt drives... then it took some minor tweaking in Japan, and the 301 became a very sought after table... The Japanese being superstitious chose the 301 over the 401 because 3 is a lucky number and 4 is not... so, despite the 401 being a better built table, the 301 is more 'wanted'.... all because of the trend started in Japan!

Now, juxtapose the above fact with another: the idler drives have been long out of production. so finding one gets increasingly tough, thus driving the prices up! The more expensive it gets, the more 'respect' it gets...

In the 1200 & 1210s case, you still find them with stockists, despite they being out of production. also, these decks have been made in thousands for many decades now... So fairly common. Now just because they are easily available, and hence not 'exotic', they have not caught on the fancy of the hardcore audiophile.

That's my take...

However, technically, I feel they can take on tables worth much much more (read upwards of $10k)! And this, is without tweaks!

Just a few tweaks and they become capable of more...

Look at the motor spec... heavy duty stuff, built to last several decades in a heavy playing DJ set up!
Look at the figures for rumble.... and hear a DJ playing it afterwards.... with thousands of watts of amplification, you will not hear rumble! Whereas, the multi-million dollar tables have gone to extremes to reduce rumble!

IMHO, the 1200 & 1210 are very worthy decks even if they are not 'exotic'. And they do kick some serious butt!

 

[sachu888]

Completely agree with Manav.

Regards,
Sachin