Getting the amplifier damping factor with speaker impedance right is important?

Analogous

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Recently I was considering getting (yet another) amplifier to try with my existing speakers…. So I consulted with an experienced FM (@prem) who has been generous and patient in responding to my queries. He told me there would be a mismatch between the speaker impedance and the Amplifier damping factor.

I was curious to understand this phenomenon as I had not considered this before while selecting components. A brief exploration online I saw this. Hope it’s of use to others too.

 
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Tried registering too, but no joy...

Ah! Just sorted out ...

The correct link is:

https://eaw.com/amplifier-damping-factor-more-is-better-or-is-it

Also read the article..... seems to go with conventional wisdom on Damping factor & Speaker Impedance:

1. The Higher the damping factor, the better.
&
2. The practical effect of the amplifier's damping factor is dominated by the Speaker Wire's Resistance / impedance, which could be several times higher than the output impedance of the amplifier (damping factor related).

Not sure what you have specifically been adviced & for which particular amp & speaker & how to relate this to the article.


Do elaborate.
 
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The article linked talks from the angle of pro sound where objectively damping is considered in terms of db loss IIRC. Many people don't believe it matters. IMO it does, but there is also the amp sound as you don't hear just damping. If you like warm,smooth then look for low, if clinical,bright look for high damping. I wouldn't treat damping as something to match with speakers. This is an incorrect way to do things.
 
Analogous impedance of speaker and damping have no relation

It has to do with design of drivers. Most vintage drivers manufactured by Altec, Lowther, Tannoy, JBL, etc, are designed in such a way that they prefer amps which don’t exercise much control. Which is why these speakers generally prefer tube amps.

The Zu drivers are designed more along the lines of vintage drivers and are high efficiency too. They generally prefer zero feedback, low damping factor amps.
 
For a given amp a speaker with lower impedance will have less control. Some of the older drivers had low mass and low qes/qts, high damping might be too "dry".
 
<snip>They generally prefer zero feedback, low damping factor amps.
I don't think there is such a measure for amplifiers. The damping factor is arrived at by using the amplifier output impedance in conjunction with measures like resistance of the elements starting from amp speaker output till the driver (including the voice coil) and the nominal impedance of the speaker.
 
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The output impedance of an amplifier can vary. as an example First watt publishes the output impedances of its amps which vary from 80 to less than 1.
Since the speaker impedance also plays a role as keith has written above and you will find that for High Damping factor amplifiers, the damping factors changes considerably based on speaker cable impedance

Considering impedance , the damping factor also changes with the frequency of the music and maybe one reason why bass reproduction changes so much along with cables..and they vary across systems.
 
Another factor to consider is feedback. Amps that utilizes global negative feedback tend to damp the speaker more. In general tube amps have low damping factor due to this as compared to SS amps.
 
I am now a bit more confused than before.
This is obviously a concept that can not be over simplified. But can anyone try and sum it up ?

a few questions come to mind:
Why is it called “damping factor”? (Damp=slightly wet, so does this imply restrictions on the movement of the drivers?)
What audible effects do high and low DF have on speakers with high sensitivity/impedence?
As in the “watts-ohms-decibel” calculations for amp- speaker matching, how could we use DF to calculate…. (Possible Synergy?) providing there is a standard way of measuring this.

Wikipedia excerpt:
”…The damping ratio is a dimensionless measure describing how oscillations in a system decay after a disturbance. Many systems exhibit oscillatory behavior when they are disturbed from their position of static equilibrium. A mass suspended from a spring, for example, might, if pulled and released, bounce up and down. On each bounce, the system tends to return to its equilibrium position, but overshoots it. Sometimes losses (e.g. frictional) damp the system and can cause the oscillations to gradually decay in amplitude towards zero or attenuate. The damping ratio is a measure describing how rapidly the oscillations decay from one bounce to the next...”

I am guessing in the audio world this would be most perceptible in the quality of low frequency ( bass extension, decay, control, looseness/ tightness etc)? Probably noticeable to a lesser dgree with the mids and highs? Just speculating. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

KEF explain: https://us.kef.com/blogs/news/damping-factor-explained
 
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Why is it called “damping factor”? (Damp=slightly wet, so does this imply restrictions on the movement of the drivers?)
Damp has multiple meaning of which "wet" is one. "To dampen" also means "to dull" or "to deaden".

I like this explanation though I don't claim to understand all of it. Maybe if I read it another 50 times... :p
 
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@Analogous to put it very simply, the speaker has a voice coil, so it is also a current device and when it receives an electrical signal from the amplifier, it resists and sends a reverse current back to the amplifier through the same cable from which it received the signal. If the output impedance of the amplifier + the cable is low, then this reverse signal gets absorbed or as it is said damped, else it can resonate the speaker cone. So in a way the higher damping factor will arrest the reverse motion quickly
 
Thank you.
The speaker is a Zu Omen DW (12 ohms, 97db/1w/1m) and the amp being considered is a Karan Acoustics Integrated i180 ( damping factor more than 1800) Speaker cables for optimum placement in my room are 2 m.
Whats your understanding of how it works in this case?
Prem has clarified his view and reason for recommendation, most succinctly.

Earlier era speakers were designed to sound good with the (valve) amplification then used widely. Hence the cone flutter was factored in as part of the speaker's sonic signature. Ofcourse each (valve) amplifier also created its own unique interaction with the fluttering speaker, and lent its own sound.

Modern Day Solid Sate amplifiers have a very high damping factor (Karan being an Extreme Example) which work well with modern day speakers, but the Iron grip they exert on the speaker, may not be sonically welcome by older (and some modern) designs, like the one you have.
 
Maybe because of this vintage drivers sound good in older tube amplifiers. Current drivers are not a very good match for tube amplifiers desgined the traditional way. YMMV.
 
Damp has multiple meaning of which "wet" is one. "To dampen" also means "to dull" or "to deaden".

I like this explanation though I don't claim to understand all of it. Maybe if I read it another 50 times... :p
The letter from the August 1947 issue of Wireless World (in the article linked above) is an indication how long this discussion/debate has been going on. We can’t seem to live without measurements even if they are often difficult to reconcile with what we hear and like or dislike?
 
Benchmark says DF is an important factor:

 
Benchmark says DF is an important factor:

Can't be a blanket statement Analogous. Also will depend upon other factors like speaker box loading, driver compliance etc. For a high-compliance driver used in a sealed enclosure a high damping factor will be a good thing. For a low compliance driver, the cone movement anyway will be damped by its suspension compliance. For an open baffle loading the damping factor can be low as there is no back pressure to support the cone vibration and most OB speakers are with low compliance drivers. There are many variables and one or two factors cannot be a deciding factor.
 
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