HT in a small 10x12 room at around Rs 3.5L

[imagineer]

Me too use Two VOG via Splitter taken from a sub 2 out .

Good to know, this is already used and works alright.

How will u use the same as 5.1.6 ( Means Top middle as height speakers for Atmos & and the same for VOG to do Auro3d) .
During Atmos playback the VOG will not function.
There is a Manufacturer (AVR ) limitations for processing it.

Yes, I am aware of this limitation.
My current plan is: to have two RCA connectors going to top middles. Physically remove them and connect it to rca splitter assigned for VOG (Preset 1 layout will be Auro, Preset 2 will be atmos)

High-end processors or Denon AV x8500 have this provision of connecting extra speakers ( Top middle - 2 speakers and single VOG) in order to switch the layout between Auro & Atmos.
Please check.

True, I guess Trinovs and StormAudio devices allow multiple layouts in the same device.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Wow, Ankit, that's some serious stuff for a bedroom. Do let us know how that works out for you, all the best

, I believe without disturbing aesthetics I can go on to 7.2.6 and pre pro is definitely on the cards. Thankfully in ceiling speakers don't cost a fortune.

 

[RajithKumar]

Yes, I am aware of this limitation.
My current plan is: to have two RCA connectors going to top middles. Physically remove them and connect it to rca splitter assigned for VOG (Preset 1 layout will be Auro, Preset 2 will be atmos)

That can be done .Only thing you may need to plan properly for acessing the back side of AVR very easily to do it everytime.
Also every time, u may need to upload the Room calibration profile based on tbe speaker layout ( in case if u r using it) to the AVR.

 

[RajithKumar]

Good to know, this is already used and works alright

Yes using for the past 2 years ,no issues.

 

[imagineer]

Yes using for the past 2 years ,no issues.

Just putting it out here, post experience:
5.1.6 is NOT possible with Denon X4700H(my AVR). It's possible with 6700 though.
With 4700 this is possible though:
7.1.4
5.1.4 + VOG (making 5 height speakers)
So, I will end-up doing what you have done. Two VOG with one RCA out to AMP.

 

[RajithKumar]

Just putting it out here, post experience:
5.1.6 is NOT possible with Denon X4700H(my AVR). It's possible with 6700 though.
With 4700 this is possible though:
7.1.4
5.1.4 + VOG (making 5 height speakers)
So, I will end-up doing what you have done. Two VOG with one RCA out to AMP.

Yes 6700 supports 6 heights .( But not Top middle as VOG).
Even with 4700 I think u can use 7.1.4 Atmos & Auro 10.1 layout.
U may need to use Front & Rear heights to be connected to height channels .For Auro 3d - VOG channel u can use Subwoofer 2 out to connect it to external power amp for powering the VOG/ TS speaker.
While playing Atmos content all channels except VOG will be active. While using Auro content/ upmixing all Channels except rear surrounds will be active .

 

[caspian1985]

That's cheap strategy to trick innocent buyers.


The woofer is low sensitivity and the hf is high sensitivity.
They mention in room sensitivity.
The frequency response is an upward slope.( That's why they are bright) objective data = subjective opinion.

And the sensitivity is of the hf driver.

Anyone with decent knowledge of speaker building knows this very well.

Klipsch exposed.
Sorry Klipsch fans. ( please, No arguments unless you measure your speaker and share the graphs)

Klipsch can be okay after calibration. But after calibration the sensitivity is similar to any other regular floor Stander.

Read this article:

I get all this, ATAS.
But then what else do I have?
There are still a couple of options left, provided I can audition them.
But if all else fails, I am very much prepared to live with Klipsch, despite knowing well what they do with their numbers.
There just isn't any other option around for my requirements.
Thanks for your inputs, though.
Regards

Read this article: https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/klipsch-rp-8000f/conclusion
It does mention that the sensitivity they measure is 92dB versus the claimed 98. However they also go deeper into the fact that the RP series is actually flat in terms of frequency response - and it has the measurements published, and explained. The RP-8000F is a remarkably flat speaker especially for a horn-loaded speaker, and the best way to judge is always to hear them yourself.

 

[prateekatasniya]

Read this article:

Read this article: https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/klipsch-rp-8000f/conclusion
It does mention that the sensitivity they measure is 92dB versus the claimed 98. However they also go deeper into the fact that the RP series is actually flat in terms of frequency response - and it has the measurements published, and explained. The RP-8000F is a remarkably flat speaker especially for a horn-loaded speaker, and the best way to judge is always to hear them yourself.

Klipsch is using an in-room estimation of sensitivity that factors in a quarter-space environment over a greater distance. It is true that the in-room sensitivity would be increased, but I think that should be stated in their specs if that is their reasoning for their sensitivity rating

But here my beef is with Klipsch’s marketing and not the speaker itself


This is what audioholics has to say about Klipsch.

People buy it for their claimed sensitivity. To get that dynamic cinema sound.
Otherwise most of the speakers would give similar sensitivity.
Without EQ these are bright( ear piercing)
And If every brand would claim their sensitivity to be 6 db higher then?
Imagine the 'QSC sc 1120' would become a speaker with 101 db sensitive.

I have done a fair bit of research before posting something like this.

 

[cmsajith]

Check the spinorama graph to know what the klipsch speaker is all about. The sound power is mostly in the region less than the peaky high frequency. Sensitivity is a misleading term for klipschs as there are very uneven peaks throughout, a little bit at the low mids and mostly above 90 in the highs. On an average it can be considered as a sensitivity </=90 in the most critical frequencies.

On top of that they have poorly designed crossover and hence a dip in the critical mid region in all their models too. This mid dip and high frequency peak makes it a bright speaker

The only plus point is that all the issues in the onaxis response is there as is in the offaxis response (Directivity index). However it's onaxis response has more high frequency peaks. So it's a speaker mostly for offaxis listening. Correcting the issues in the graph with a DSP can make it sound good for all seats.

 

[prateekatasniya]

Check the spinorama graph to know what the klipsch speaker is all about. The sound power is mostly in the region less than the peaky high frequency. Sensitivity is a misleading term for klipschs as there are very uneven peaks throughout, a little bit at the low mids and mostly above 90 in the highs. On an average it can be considered as a sensitivity </=90 in the most critical frequencies.

On top of that they have poorly designed crossover and hence a dip in the critical mid region in all their models too. This mid dip and high frequency peak makes it a bright speaker

The only plus point is that all the issues in the onaxis response is there as is in the offaxis response (Directivity index). However it's onaxis response has more high frequency peaks. So it's a speaker mostly for offaxis listening. Correcting the issues in the graph with a DSP can make it sound good for all seats.

Absolutely Right ..
But still there will be fans ( emotional)
Even I USED to think that Klipsch is good.
But i think logically.

 

[k-pad]

Hi all,
A year-end update:
1. The MA 225s have really opened up, and totally loving it.
2. The lazy b*m I am, have still not set it up for stereo listening.
3. Plex has been commendable (No diss on Kodi, and I will give that also a try very soon)
4. The A80J is stunning for 4K yes, but I think the real money goes into what it does to a diverse variety of 1080p content! Here, I have to part ways with my C1 friends and once again thank those who pointed me towards the Sony. And the UI is brilliant. (Am running a very minimalist home screen)

Next step for me are the following. They all have to do with build:
1. Soundproofing (Has anyone built a room within a room in an apartment? Is it worth it? How to trap LFs - am sure nothing can stop it at reference levels, but I play at max 85dB - within the room? What is the cost per square feet one must looks at?

2. Is it worth drawing separate power for this room from the main line? I intend to keep it to the following:
a. A wired internet connection.
b. An OLED TV.
c. The AVR
d. A second sub, surrounds, ceilings, and a power amp maybe later, and
e. A fan, an AC, a computer and some LED lights.
Will a separate line make a difference?

3. From another thread, I realised a bad "power conditioner" could screw some very expensive equipment. What's the best way to ensure clean AC power to the equipment in this room?

4. In current room, I really am bothered by the ceiling fan and computer fan (when playing movies through Plex, during heavy scenes, my i7, 16-GB RAM Lenovo AIO really groans a lot.
Have any of you tried these silent fans that Indian manufacturers advertise?
Will an HTPC or an NVidia Shield Pro help?

5. Have any of you tried cassette ACs? Would you recommend it for a 10x12 room? Without a fan?

I know it is a diverse bunch of questions, but would be very grateful for your responses.
Regards and wishing this whole community a very happy new year.
Truth be told, you all are partly responsible for a very many of us keeping our sanity the past year
Stay safe and be good.

 

[raghupb]

<snip>
2. Is it worth drawing separate power for this room from the main line? I intend to keep it to the following:
a. A wired internet connection.
b. An OLED TV.
c. The AVR
d. A second sub, surrounds, ceilings, and a power amp maybe later, and
e. A fan, an AC, a computer and some LED lights.
Will a separate line make a difference?
<snip>

If possible, keep AV equipment and others (Fan/AC/Lights) on separate circuits.
When on same line, say if the AC trips the MCB, power to the entire AV subsystem is abruptly down.
If budget permits, install a servo stabilizer for AV equipment.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[k-pad]

If possible, keep AV equipment and others (Fan/AC/Lights) on separate circuits.
When on same line, say if the AC trips the MCB, power to the entire AV subsystem is abruptly down.
If budget permits, install a servo stabilizer for AV equipment.
Cheers,
Raghu

Thank you, sir.
Will do. Makes sense.

If I got it right:
1. try and draw a line for AV equipment, and
2. Leave the rest of the room separate?

 

[k-pad]

Hi K-pad,

Nice review ! If you want less baritone sound in the center channel then you can reduce the crossover of the center channel.
After Audyssey calibration, you can adjust the levels of the individual speakers to your taste.

Hi,
So, a few weeks ago, boosted the Centre level alone by 3 dB, and it fixed a lot of niggles, but that artificiality about various actors' voices has remained.
I wanted to go through all the advice when I had it set up and stumbled upon this again.
And realised that I never got around to trying setting a separate crossover for only the centre channel.
It is currently at 100 Hz.
Will try 90 first and 80 for only the Centre.
Or can I go lower? (Speakers rated 80 Hz and above)
Regards

 

[ssf]

Or can I go lower? (Speakers rated 80 Hz and above)

If your speakers have a lower range of 80 hz and you set it to 60 hz, the speaker will not produce the frequencies from 80 hz to 60 hz. Because you have set the crossover to 60 hz, the sub will take over frequencies of the center channel that are below 60 hz only. This means that the frequencies between 60 hz and 80 hz of the center channel is not reproduced at all in your system.

In your case, it is advisable to set the crossover to 90 hz and above for speakers that go upto 80 hz.

 

[Nitin K]

Hi,
So, a few weeks ago, boosted the Centre level alone by 3 dB, and it fixed a lot of niggles, but that artificiality about various actors' voices has remained.
I wanted to go through all the advice when I had it set up and stumbled upon this again.
And realised that I never got around to trying setting a separate crossover for only the centre channel.
It is currently at 100 Hz.
Will try 90 first and 80 for only the Centre.
Or can I go lower? (Speakers rated 80 Hz and above)
Regards

Ssf has explained it very aptly.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Hi all,
A year-end update:
1. The MA 225s have really opened up, and totally loving it.
2. The lazy b*m I am, have still not set it up for stereo listening.
3. Plex has been commendable (No diss on Kodi, and I will give that also a try very soon)
4. The A80J is stunning for 4K yes, but I think the real money goes into what it does to a diverse variety of 1080p content! Here, I have to part ways with my C1 friends and once again thank those who pointed me towards the Sony. And the UI is brilliant. (Am running a very minimalist home screen)

Next step for me are the following. They all have to do with build:
1. Soundproofing (Has anyone built a room within a room in an apartment? Is it worth it? How to trap LFs - am sure nothing can stop it at reference levels, but I play at max 85dB - within the room? What is the cost per square feet one must looks at?

2. Is it worth drawing separate power for this room from the main line? I intend to keep it to the following:
a. A wired internet connection.
b. An OLED TV.
c. The AVR
d. A second sub, surrounds, ceilings, and a power amp maybe later, and
e. A fan, an AC, a computer and some LED lights.
Will a separate line make a difference?

3. From another thread, I realised a bad "power conditioner" could screw some very expensive equipment. What's the best way to ensure clean AC power to the equipment in this room?

4. In current room, I really am bothered by the ceiling fan and computer fan (when playing movies through Plex, during heavy scenes, my i7, 16-GB RAM Lenovo AIO really groans a lot.
Have any of you tried these silent fans that Indian manufacturers advertise?
Will an HTPC or an NVidia Shield Pro help?

5. Have any of you tried cassette ACs? Would you recommend it for a 10x12 room? Without a fan?

I know it is a diverse bunch of questions, but would be very grateful for your responses.
Regards and wishing this whole community a very happy new year.
Truth be told, you all are partly responsible for a very many of us keeping our sanity the past year
Stay safe and be good.

1. I have offered you soundproofing advice in one of your previous threads.
2. AC should always have its own line, for the others please check total power draw of your equipment and then use appropriate number of lines. To note here is that while you may have sufficient power in the line you may require additional wall sockets. I don't believe additional lines will make a difference as long as the power requirements are being met.
3. I do not ( and never have) use power conditioners, I don't believe in them so can't comment other than this.
4. I can't speak to the ceiling fan but if you want powerful but quiet PC fans get Nidec/Scythe Gentle Typhoons. HTPC is recommended. I don't believe in media players/streamers personally.
5. Have not tried cassette ACs in my home, window works well for me. Why do you want a cassette?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

If your speakers have a lower range of 80 hz and you set it to 60 hz, the speaker will not produce the frequencies from 80 hz to 60 hz. Because you have set the crossover to 60 hz, the sub will take over frequencies of the center channel that are below 60 hz only. This means that the frequencies between 60 hz and 80 hz of the center channel is not reproduced at all in your system.

In your case, it is advisable to set the crossover to 90 hz and above for speakers that go upto 80 hz.

Hi ssf, filters are usually not brick wall but come with a slope, if you have a 80Hz HPF filter you will likely get sound at 60Hz, same goes for a 60Hz LPF filter, you will likely get sound at 80Hz. Also speaker specifications don't indicate a brick wall either usually. They often roll off gently below the stated cut off unless it is a ported deign, in which it might drop steeply after tune. Best to see measured response if interested in these things to understand if a speaker with a stated 80Hz cut off spec will actually have any usable output at 60Hz.

 

[ssf]

Hi ssf, filters are usually not brick wall but come with a slope, if you have a 80Hz HPF filter you will likely get sound at 60Hz, same goes for a 60Hz LPF filter, you will likely get sound at 80Hz. Also speaker specifications don't indicate a brick wall either usually. They often roll off gently below the stated cut off unless it is a ported deign, in which it might drop steeply after tune. Best to see measured response if interested in these things to understand if a speaker with a stated 80Hz cut off spec will actually have any usable output at 60Hz.

Hi Decadent_Spectre,

Very true. Also, a speaker going down to 45 hz in controlled measurements could go down further in room due to room assists. (I can't remember the correct word).

But for HT, with a sub in the picture, won't the speakers benefit from higher crossover settings as the lower frequencies can be passed on the to sub which is designed to handle them and the speakers can be made to handle the frequencies that they are comfortably with.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Hi D_S,

Very true. Also, a speaker going down to 45 hz in controlled measurements could go down further in room due to room assists. (I can't remember the correct word).

But for HT, with a sub in the picture, won't the speakers benefit from higher crossover settings as the lower frequencies can be passed on the to sub which is designed to handle them and the speakers can be made to handle the frequencies that they are comfortably with.

I think the term is room gain/boundary reinforcement? While room gain exists it does so by reflecting the sound, probably not ideal IMO.

I think this would come down to preference like most things, the overlap might sound better either way but integration (needless to say) is key, particularly the time domain. As for being "comfortable" this would depend on the speakers thermal and mechanical capability in the passband, as long as it has some juice in tank it should be okay, although that usually means big (12">) and multiple powerful drivers in the speaker (this also depends on desired SPL levels so "it depends"). For smaller drivers I concur that it may be more ideal to cross higher than the speakers minimum cut off, but this will ultimately depend on the speaker/sub being used and the preferences of its owner. To note is that most subwoofers don't usually sound good when being crossed higher than 100Hz, also localization can present. I also personally advocate 2 subs (or more), even if you don't need the SPL, on both sides of the listener, the "pressure" is even and presents a more immersive sound. Many people advocate multiple subs to smooth response but I don't subscribe to it.