Is A CD Player Really Better Than A DVDP For Stereo Music?

[S.P.KRISHNA]

It is the same case with sony sony BD player BDP S 370 which were auditioned on my request in 2 places, though its reproduction is better to that of the DVD player.

 

[moktan]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

I have had an opportunity to own some of the fantastic CD players

1) Shanling CD T 1000
2) AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 with upsampler
3) Rega Appolo

I compared all these CD players against my $30 Cyberhome DVD player & guess what, I still use my cyberhome DVD player for stereo music !!

Regards,
Manoj

the OP's query was ..is the CD player 'really' better than the DVD player..our friend Manoj being quite circumspect about the edge that the C has over the D, says that he 'still uses' his DVD player in spite of owning such 'fantastic' CD players... perhaps he is telling the OP to take care of others things down (or up) the sonic chain before getting finicky about the 'finer' aspects of the source..
just my two pence and don't mean any offence to anyone..

 

[varthurravi]

There seems to be overwhelming opinion that a CD player is always better than a DVD player when it comes to music. I have few queries, just out of curiosity:

1. How does a Blu-ray disc Player compare against a CD Player
2. Notwithstanding the seeming superiority of CD Players over the DVD/Blu-ray Players, is there a choice not to use a DVD/Blu-ray Player when it comes to listening to DVD-A discs? I suppose dedicated CD players can't play DVD-Audio discs, right?

Thanks
Ravi

 

[KDM]

It is the same case with sony sony BD player BDP S 370 which were auditioned on my request in 2 places, though its reproduction is better to that of the DVD player.

This is noticeably better than your standard DVD player.

As I've said before, one of my friends IS using the S-370 as a stand alone CD player. It is mated to a Yamaha 2 channel receiver and speakers with MX interconnects. However, that particular amp/speaker combo sounds horrid to my ears (upfront, harsh, extremely muddy) so I'm not able to post an accurate review of the audio capabilities of the Sony BD player.

I was there with him when he purchased the amp and speaker combo and I told him NOT to buy it. He wouldn't listen to me and convinced himself that all the amp/speakers needed a burn-in period. Last I heard it, it hadn't burnt in.

That's my excuse.

I'm listening to my Yamaha CDX-496 through headphones, so I cannot compare the sound of the S-370 with that of the CD player

 

[square_wave]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Hey Manoje,

What is the rest of your system in which this test was done ? It would also be nice if you can shed some light on the music used for this test and your conclusions about the test.

Do you have all these cd players with you currently or have you downgraded to the dvd player ?

If what you say is true, since you are in Bangalore, we would love to borrow this wonder machine and do a comparison against some well regarded players. Heck, we can all save some money !

Gotcha

http://www.hifivision.com/introductions/1239-audiophile-garden-city.html

Your system is impressive (intriguing really)

It makes your observations even more scandalous

 

[shershah]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Gotcha

http://www.hifivision.com/introductions/1239-audiophile-garden-city.html

Your system is impressive (intriguing really)

It makes your observations even more scandalous

hell and damnation - that sulphur light!- oops - i just meant that the devil is in the details!

damn this internet! - in those olden golden days, we walked free - and did not need bullet-proof armour against the inquisition -

but now?- hell, public lynching is in vogue- at least for ones hifivision avatar!

post-script = please do not kill me again!

 

[venkatcr]

1. How does a Blu-ray disc Player compare against a CD Player

I had discussed this is some detail in another thread. Ultimately it all boils down to optimisation. A CDP is optimised to play audio CDs and that is it. It has no electronics other than that needed to play an audio CD.

A Blu-Ray player is optimised to decode and play Blu-Ray. It primary job is video decoding as most players expect the sound to be handled by an external processor. In contrast, a CDP expects to be connected to a simple analogue amplifier and thus it's DAC is also optimised for music.

2. Notwithstanding the seeming superiority of CD Players over the DVD/Blu-ray Players, is there a choice not to use a DVD/Blu-ray Player when it comes to listening to DVD-A discs? I suppose dedicated CD players can't play DVD-Audio discs, right?

CDPs do not play DVD-A, and you have to use a DVDP or a Blu-Ray player for that. But then the assumptions of external decoding and processing is true for DVD-A.

Cheers

 

[alexanish]

I have a Sony BDP-370. I wanted to bitstream the 2 channel audio through HDMI to my AVR. Is there a menu option to do that in BDP? It does have an option to set bitstream the movie track. But audio channels come only as PCM in AVR. That means BDP already have done the DAC. I want the AVR to do the DAC job.

 

[alexanish]

I have a Sony BDP-370. I wanted to bitstream the 2 channel audio through HDMI to my AVR. Is there a menu option to do that in BDP? It does have an option to set bitstream the movie track. But audio channels come only as PCM in AVR. That means BDP already have done the DAC. I want the AVR to do the DAC job

Guyz I had tried out different ways to configure again. But the HDMI way did not work out. Then I tried with coax cable. I connected digital coax out from BDP and connected Digital coax in assigned for TV/CD in AVR. Then I had to assign the inputs in AVR menu to set TV/CD with COAX1. That worked. But still I get PCM 44.1KHz as the source displayed in AVR. Why is that? Is this how bitstream from Audio CD reach via coax cable? I though I might see something like Digital or Dolby digital as the source. But forgetting the display thing as PCM in AVR, is it really processing the DAC in AVR instead of BDP? I didn't get the time to compare the quality that I have to do sometime today.

 

[venkatcr]

I have a Sony BDP-370. I wanted to bitstream the 2 channel audio through HDMI to my AVR. Is there a menu option to do that in BDP? It does have an option to set bitstream the movie track. But audio channels come only as PCM in AVR. That means BDP already have done the DAC. I want the AVR to do the DAC job.

With an Onkyo you have to do settings in two places. One, in the source ensure that HDMI Audio out is set to bitstream. Two, in the AVR, go to Advanced Settings>Listening Mode Preset and ensure that all the codecs are set to their original formats. In other words if the AVR receives a Dolby signal, it should process it as a Dolby signal. Please refer to page 49 of the AVR manual.

Cheers

 

[manojrc]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Hey Manoje,

What is the rest of your system in which this test was done ?

Dear Mr Square Wave,

Not to brag, but because you asked, let me tell you that I've had an opportunity to own, test & audition some of the wonderful electronics & speakers.

I did the above comparison when I was in US. The following speakers were used for the test ( Well I bought all these stuffs for the test & later sold it on Audiogon

1) Revel F30
2) Martin Logan Mosaic &
3) Martin Logan Vantage

Amps used

1) Aragon 8008 BB
2) Forte 4A ( Class A amp )
3) Kinergetics KBA 280 &
4) Cary V12 cad-280sa

Power cord used

1) Nordost Shiva
2) $2 cable !!

Interconnect
1) Anti cable
2) ELCO SGI999R interconnect ($1200 for 3ft . ELCO high-end audio interconnects, speaker cables, digital cables and power cords. )

Speaker cable

1) OM Audio labs

After the test I decided to keep Vantage, Anti cable, ELCO, Cyberhome DVD player, Kinergetics KBA 280. Later I added a Martin Logan sub woofer too.

Well, I shared MY opinion based on MY own experience. Nothing more, nothing less

Please message me. I'll share my mobile number with you. Then you can call me & come to my house for an audition. Some of the HFV members already did that.

Regards,
Manoj

 

[manojrc]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

It makes your observations even more scandalous

Dear Mr SW,

Please read my comment again. I never claimed product 'A' is better than product 'B'. Why to jump in to conclusion? Well, I decided to keep a DVD player. But do you know the reason(s)? Have you checked with me what was the reason to go for product A? Could that be economical reason or may be I wanted to go for a player with both CD & DVD playing feature ( AKA a DVD player !! ) or wanted a player with volume control !!! Please note that I didn't do the test to find the 'mother of all CD players, speakers & amps'. I did the test to find the 'suitable' products which I 'WANT to BUY'.

So what was my point. Nothing !! I did a comparison test, decided to keep/buy few items & shared my experience in this forum. period.

Regards,
Manoj

 

[srramanujam]

Just had the chance to compare my Samsung DVP and newly bought CA 840C in my own setup.

Sound quality (and maybe some small measure of buyer's bias) convinces me that the CDP is worth the investment. When i upgrade the speaker cables (from the lamp chords that i am using now), there could be some more conviction.

 

[Hiten]

By the simple fact that a read head is a electromechanical device and is always prone to making errors. While reading from a CD, it could skip a few pits giving you erroneous data.

If one agrees that a human brain has more important role in what we hear and it can fill in the missing sound, or give illusion of sound and tone. I wonder how many of us can hear missing pits errors. Also I am amazed at people claiming to hear difference in clock jitter time variations in different cd players.

More if anyone wants to know....
Top 10 Incredible Sound Illusions
YouTube - Incredible Audio Illusion
YouTube - Your Brain on Sound: Aural Illusions, MP3, and Psychoacoustics - by Jack Moffitt
By the way where is OP nvashi, Has he decided on buying a cd player. He wants to listen to mp3s as per his post and we are discussing Rs. 1,00,000 CD Players.

 

[no1lives4ever]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

I do not oppose your views or listening taste .To check the difference for myself, for the past one month, I am carrying with me my brand new sony DVD player which has Audio DAC 192 Khz / 24 bit to various high end Audio / video showrooms and comparing its performance with various CD players on Various Amplifiers, both AVR & Integrated , and Speakers both bookshelves and Towers and I trust my ears in judgement. My DVD could not match to any of these CD Players. I feel the DVD player misses in clarity a good number of musical notes particulary in mid & high frequency. It mess them up. Over all the DVD player performs 70% to that of a CD Player and with an external DAC its performance is 90%.

Regards

Like i pointed out earlier, a DAC capable of 192 Khz / 24 bit in a Rs. 4k dvd player will definitely be of a cheap quality and not be the best way to play out audio. All CD players have a DAC capable of playing 44.1khz/16 bit PCM audio, but we all know that there are huge differences in the quality of DACs.

Take the example of Oppo. They charge $500 extra for their BDP95 vs the BDP93 in which the main difference is the hardware used to play audio. The video section of both the BDP93 and BDP95 are identical.

In a nutshell, unless you have a DVD/BluRay player designed for audio output, the analog output of the DVD player will typically be worse than a dedicated CD/DVD/BluRay player which is designed for high quality analog audio output. Mostly DVD & BluRay players are not designed for high quality analog outputs as most of them are used with AVRs or Processors which take digital output from the DVD/BluRay players where the digital to analog conversion is done by the output DAC of the AVR.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[no1lives4ever]

I have a Sony BDP-370. I wanted to bitstream the 2 channel audio through HDMI to my AVR. Is there a menu option to do that in BDP? It does have an option to set bitstream the movie track. But audio channels come only as PCM in AVR. That means BDP already have done the DAC. I want the AVR to do the DAC job

Guyz I had tried out different ways to configure again. But the HDMI way did not work out. Then I tried with coax cable. I connected digital coax out from BDP and connected Digital coax in assigned for TV/CD in AVR. Then I had to assign the inputs in AVR menu to set TV/CD with COAX1. That worked. But still I get PCM 44.1KHz as the source displayed in AVR. Why is that? Is this how bitstream from Audio CD reach via coax cable? I though I might see something like Digital or Dolby digital as the source. But forgetting the display thing as PCM in AVR, is it really processing the DAC in AVR instead of BDP? I didn't get the time to compare the quality that I have to do sometime today.

If you are transporting audio over HDMI and the AVR shows PCM, then you are getting raw uncompressed digital audio to your AVR from your BDP. This is the only option available to you when you are playing audio CDs. When your AVR shows PCM, the output DAC of the AVR is being used. This is true even when you are seeing something like multichannel pcm on your AVR.

Bitstreaming is used to reffer to the act of transferring the compressed digital stream from video discs to the AVR. When bitstreaming, the AVR does the decompression of the audio codecs. This is typically preffered as this would avoid any jitter introduced in the transport cable.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[square_wave]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Dear Mr SW,

Please read my comment again. I never claimed product 'A' is better than product 'B'. Why to jump in to conclusion? Well, I decided to keep a DVD player. But do you know the reason(s)? Have you checked with me what was the reason to go for product A? Could that be economical reason or may be I wanted to go for a player with both CD & DVD playing feature ( AKA a DVD player !! ) or wanted a player with volume control !!! Please note that I didn't do the test to find the 'mother of all CD players, speakers & amps'. I did the test to find the 'suitable' products which I 'WANT to BUY'.

So what was my point. Nothing !! I did a comparison test, decided to keep/buy few items & shared my experience in this forum. period.

Regards,
Manoj

Hi Manoje,

Apologies if my observations came across as redundant. The OPs thread was about the necessity of a cd player for quality. The resultant discussion consequently followed the same vein. I presumed your observations were pertaining to quality rather than anything else.

 

[srramanujam]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Last week i was in Delhi. I bought three cartons of cookies and a CD player.

After two days at home, i have consumed the cookies and have not consumed the CD player.

What is my point - nothing. I just bought some items, consumed some and shared my experience in this forum. Why do you want to make any conclusions about quality. Fitted with the right electronics, my cookies will sound better than any similarly priced CD player.

 

[unleash_me]

Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

...Please note that I didn't do the test to find the 'mother of all CD players, speakers & amps'. I did the test to find the 'suitable' products which I 'WANT to BUY'.

Fair point and a good one on that too. Wish we had that kind of flexibility back in India for atleast home auditions and returns. Having said that, there are still few good shops in B'lore that lets you do that.

In the past I'd owned a philips slot loading dvdp, denon DVD1920 and marantz DV7001. I'd rate them as good, best and excellent in the order of their stereo performance for a dvdp; with the later almost matching my then favorite marantz SA15S1 player.

As for this thread, imo given a choice, having a dedicated player makes lot of sense. But as mentioned by manojrc earlier, the reasons to choose a particular solution may be varied.

 

[manojrc]

Dear Mr SW, unleash_me,

I assume that OP wasn't merely asking for an info ( CD vs DVD quality). He seriously wants to 'buy' a product, I guess. So we need to consider few parameters like affordability, value for money ( Do you have such terms exist in High-End equipment world?? ) & quality of course. IMHO, unless you have the best speaker, a fantastically recorded CD & an acoustically treated room, a so called high end CD player may not give anything extra over a cheap DVD player. ( It may 'give', but most of us won't notice it ! ).Probably I may not have golden ears, but that's what I found after owning some serious electronics & couple of ( relatively ) expensive speakers. Some of the gentlemen in this forum may have a different experience & opinion. I respect that.

On the other hand, if cost is not an object, a dedicated CD player like a WADIA or KRELL makes more sense.

I had to rewind (?? !! ) Tracy Chapman CD countless times to detect the quality difference when I compared an Aragon amp against a Forte 4 A amp ( Class A ). Well, in real life, we ( or most of us ) notice only a punchier BASS from Aragon !! I even compared Bel canto against Forte 4A & I could live with even a switching amp !

Regards