Even different potentiometers have different sound quality and they are audible as well ?!?
Wow ! One keeps learning new things everyday.
Local Indian components Vs Imported components - My shocking Discovery
- Thread starter Hari Iyer
- Start date
Wow ! One keeps learning new things everyday.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
You will learn that the hard way! After you have 10+ years of experience, listening to the sound of passive components and are officially no longer a "novice".
TD150
Active Member
Yes please.
Hello TD150,
Start here at Post #22 above please. ( 86865/post-974836 )
Local Indian components Vs Imported components - My shocking Discovery
First let me being by saying that this comparision is completely based on my own personal experience and actual usage / testing and listening and YMMV. FMs who follow me know by now that i do a lot of DIY stuff and at times i take it to extreme level to find the right sound signature that i am...
www.hifivision.com
By wiring the two 10K pots' ( on a common shaft ) end terminals opposite to each other, as an "X:, and using their commonly wired wipers as the single output, you have achieved a constant 10K impedance L-Pad pot. It does not change it's 10K Z ..... as you change volume.
A wire wound sounds superior IMHO ( and others ) to a conductive plastic pot.
DRAWING ............ for CLARITY :
My audio mentor sent this to me in 2017. I sent this drawing to Hari in 2021. ( Its what I use. No active line stage needed in my system. ) Pots turn on same shaft ...
Jeff
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Yes, I use this in my passive preamplifier. Thanks for sharing.
Wow. This is an ingenious way to change the volume without changing the impedance. Whoever thought of this first - brilliant.
If one desires 4 gang wirewound pot are also available. Will not require additional shaft attachment to turn the two different wipers at same time and stereo connection can be made.
http://www.potentiometer.in/panel_set3_watt_gange.php
minimum tolerance of 2 % is mentioned.
regards
http://www.potentiometer.in/panel_set3_watt_gange.php
minimum tolerance of 2 % is mentioned.
regards
reubensm
Well-Known Member
What a brave post. Although I have completely discontinued DIY and repair work due to career-related time constraints, when I was active in this area, I found NXP (Philips), Keltron and original Samwah caps to be good for use as generic substitutes. As most of the folks who approached me for repairing stuff, usually came to me at a stage just before discarding equipment (after frustrating experiences with other mechs), they did not care much about replacement caps used, etc. So I never went in for expensive types.
When my Sony Wega Trinitron 29 inch TV from the year 2000 (KV-XJ29M80 chassis) started showing symptoms of failing, my brother undertook the task to fix it. The boards inside were essentially imported and litered with Rubycon eletrolytics (made in Japan). It was interesting to note that most of the Rubycons, especially around the vertical stage were all leaky. Probably Sony's circuit design was driving them close to their tolerance limits but after recapping with Keltron caps, the TV is working perfectly well.
When my Sony Wega Trinitron 29 inch TV from the year 2000 (KV-XJ29M80 chassis) started showing symptoms of failing, my brother undertook the task to fix it. The boards inside were essentially imported and litered with Rubycon eletrolytics (made in Japan). It was interesting to note that most of the Rubycons, especially around the vertical stage were all leaky. Probably Sony's circuit design was driving them close to their tolerance limits but after recapping with Keltron caps, the TV is working perfectly well.
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Hello Hiten, nice to meet you,
Yes, four gangs are available. However, with two separate dual gangs, and a MXL pulley mechanism ( one turn linear is a bit too fast !! ) you can " slip a cog or two or three " on one channel's belt, relative to the other's channel, and put-in a system BALANCE CONTROL CORRECTION. Not so possible ..... with four pots on one shaft.
Also, a caveat : I have NO idea as to the quality of this Indian / Potel wirewound pot Hari is using. Refer to the Bourns data sheet I posted earlier, as my own example of a suitable high-quality precision wirewound pot.
The most important point : this entire idea we are discussing - ( for this type of system Attenuator )........... is " A+++ "............!!!!
I say this from actual experiences, VS all the other high-end passive Attenuator types some of my audio friends have A-Bed over the years.
For the record, this Attenuator idea was given to me in 2017 by Mr. Dennis Fraker, the principal at Serious Stereo, in Livingston MT. It is HIS drawing to me I have posted above. He offers commercially such system Attenuators, custom built to the Queen's taste.
Jeff
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The 4 x ganged potentiometer is what I am using from Potel
Attachments
Thanks drlowmu for details. Will be helpful in future.
Haribhai thats nice pot. I may be mistaken but why is ground wire not twisted with signal wire ?
Another alternative is Pankaj Potentiometers which is a very old company supplying to Indian Army is what I have read in the past. But I dont think they entertain custom small qty. work.
Regards
Haribhai thats nice pot. I may be mistaken but why is ground wire not twisted with signal wire ?
Another alternative is Pankaj Potentiometers which is a very old company supplying to Indian Army is what I have read in the past. But I dont think they entertain custom small qty. work.
Regards
I have bought 1 watt carbon potentiometer from Pankaj 20 years ago from LT road. I am not sure if they directly sell retail. Signal wire and ground wire were not coupled to prevent radiation. Btw, I don't have any hum or noise with this arrangement either.
Hello Hiten,
When possible, we try to avoid twisting ground and hot signal wires.
The signal wires you refer to sound worse, twisted IMHO.
I am no E.E. ( to know and be able to definitively explain all the theory ). I believe twisting such signal wires increases capacitance and it negatively effects the high frequency reproduction.
Irregardless of any E.E, reason, who cares?? Just A-B this signal wire twisting on someone's really good system, and you will discover what sounds the best. to you.
" The proof of the pudding is in the eating ". Have fun.
Jeff
Again FMs to be perfectly clear with you, I do not recommend a single turn pot, nor a four-on-one shaft arrangement.
A single turn linear Pot is too sensitive for use. Don't do it !! A four-on-one-shaft control excludes having a balance option in your listening room.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The DIY answer with single turn 10K linear pots is two-fold : 1) use two dual - ganged pots, or 2) even four 10 K individual pots. Then employ a separate volume control pulley and knob, and appropriate ( differing ) diameter MXL pulleys and MXL belts, to make the Attenuator two or three turns end to end. You can " slip" a few notches ( or cogs ) on one channel's MXL pulleys, to put in a ROOM BALANCE offset.
Another warning. At this low signal level, the quality of the few parts ( RCA jacks, silver wire, Pots ) is a key consideration, and it reflects directly on one's ultimate performance. You will get what you pay for !!
Done well, this Attenuator's absolute music playback performance is hard to beat !!!!
Unlike many, I have had four years to figure-out how to do this, DIY.
..................................................................3 turn precision POTS : ..................................................................
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Indeed. capacitors act like short circuit for any type of alternative current. Higher the capacitance and higher the frequency, lower the impedance. closeness of the two wires increases the capacitance. Length of the wire increases the capacitance. Thickness of the dielectric (material between the two wires) decreases the capacitance. Just take a simple LCR meter and measure the capacitance of two wires. Then start twisting them together and you will see the capacitance increasing. Hence high frequency get more affected than lower frequency. It also implies that we should have shorter interconnects, thicker cables so that the distance between the two conducting wires increases.
The problem that twisting solves is EMI interference. But if you don't have that, why twist the wires.
Thinner wires should be used for volume controls. I am using a 0.2mm (34 awg) magnanin wire for my Preamplifier internal wiring with good results.
Yes. Capacitance is proportional to the surface area of the plates (thinner the wire, lesser the surface area). Thin wires will decrease capacitance but increase resistance. But for very short distance, the resistance will not matter as much.
Thin film is Resistors are not very suitable when there is a power draw even though adequately derated. I shall prefer a non-inductive wire wound at such place. Locations where thin film can excel is grid to ground input resistance and Rk of driver tubes where low current is involved.
Hari,
That 34 AWG wire is not meant for inside an Attenuator. It is used in place of a resistor, to a tweeter. The Magnanin wire will lose dynamics.......... in the locations you have used it !!
Be advised, your 34 AWG Attenuator's wire runs alone, will screw up subjective judgements you are now trying to make on parts, elsewhere in your audio system.
The proper wire Hari is something like Cardas Silver polished 19 AWG bare solid core , from Cardas, or Michael Percy in the USA. 18 AWG pure silver is also OK, AWG-wise. ................. Not 34 AWG "resistance" wire.
As posted earlier on this page, the parts and execution of an Attenuator is critical, due to the nature of the signals involved.
Done well, it can possibly ( and probably ) be "the" highest fidelity approach possible, or certainly in my mind, easily within the top 5% of what is available. We are not privy to hearing / comparing everything available in this world !!
Jeff
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Do you get a dual gang potel pot ? I have only seen singles.
Ctr caps i use too and they are good.
Why should local products not be as good as others ? One just needs to find them.
All Nichicon caps bulging at the same time. Were they being used with the correct voltages ? Yes, keltron caps work for me too in a power supply though I know people pooh pooh them. I also used to use another Indian capacitor brand called Websen. They were made in collaboration with Rubicon. But they are no longer produced. So often for prototyping it's either keltron or samsung.
For power transformers, never had any luck with delta. They just wont answer emails. But I source torroids from Torotrans in pune and they are very good. For EI its Argo transformers in mumbai.
Buy from India's official online dealer!
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