Monitor speakers or speakers with separate amplifier/reciever

[kpit]

Hi guys,

This forum has lots of discussions regarding speakers receivers and amplifiers. The more I am reading all the these posts, I am getting more confused. So I would like the experts opinion and advise here.
I have started my search initially with good speakers and receiver combo. Later on I happened to see about monitor speaker in this forum. So from then I started to think about monitor speakers, and while reading I came to know that they are most suitable for audio recording studios. The one simple reason I started thinking about monitor speakers is that I do not need to worry about buying and pairing the speakers with a suitable AMP/receiver.

My requirement is:
I like stereo sound with high and sharp punch in bass (not too sharp to irritate my ears) rather than surround sound.
I want to limit my budget to 30K since I want simple setup.
My purpose is only to listen music (99% Indian TOLLLY, BOLLY) and watch movies and video songs. No audio recording or something..

I am not sure what is the best option to chose.

Looking forward to here your opinions.

 

[Brajendu]

Hello KPIT,

Even I had gone through this confusion once upon a time.

Monitors: best for natural sounds, but you mayn't get good bass (because enhancing any of the range is NOT natural). So the original sound from the source is ONLY 'amplified' without adding any color to the sound, not even the sound signature of the brands.

Passive Speakers: with an AMP/Receiver you get some form of coloring to the original sound either from the speaker or the Amp. Many amps also have Bass, Treble knobs for your preference. (I don't use these anymore after getting the taste of pure natural sounds, but that took me few months before I realized that enhanced sound is really artificial. Previously I was feeling excited to hear deep bass and sharp treble

Within your budget of 30K you will get a good Monitor (or a reasonable combination of Speaker+Amp). I can help you in this regard if you need more info.

 

[kpit]

Since most of the music and movies I personally enjoy are with powerful BASS. And apart from BASS, I also expect my speakers sound clear enough that I could hear every bit of instrument in the music.
As per your details, it seems I do not enjoy much with monitor speakers. so what are your suggestions for me and of course with their prices so that it will ease my pain of narrowing my choices..

 

[Brajendu]

With a deep Bass (most of the budget) speakers tend to compromise the sound clarity. So I think you can opt for a stereo Amp + Stereo Bookshelf + Sub-woofer. So youill have a 2.1 system. But you need to look for "Pre-out" in the amp for connecting the Sub. I m not aware of any Receiver with the above facility in your budget.

You can consider "Norge Amp+Speaker" which comes around 20k. And a Sub within 10k, I don't know any particular brand for the Sub, so please do some research in this forum.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I think that the word "monitor" has been adopted by the hifi industry as something that looks good on boxes! Of course, it has its roots in the studio, where the engineer needs to hear uncoloured sound as he monitors a recording or a mix.

This does not mean lacking in bass. It should mean balanced bass. If you wanted thumping bass (as in shop demos of home theatre!) you would be in the market for a sub-woofer anyway. If the manufacturer is being honest, I don't think you need be put off by the use of the word "monitor" in the description.

The one simple reason I started thinking about monitor speakers is that I do not need to worry about buying and pairing the speakers with a suitable AMP/receiver.

Then what you are thinking about is Active (rather than passive) speakers --- speakers which have built-in amplification. Not all monitor speakers are active. But what is your source?

Another word that you may come across is nearfield. A studio engineer sits with speakers on his desk, or just a few feet in front of him. These are known as nearfield speakers, because they are meant for this configuration, rather than to fill a room with sound.

Computer audio has brought the technology of nearfield and active speakers out of the studio. The output of early sound cards was truly horrible, and the small, battery-powered computer speakers of the day were no better than cheap, tinny radios. Now, we can can have hifi on our desktops and the sky, or rather the budget, is the limit!

True monitors, that are made, designed and marketed for the studio, are often called unforgiving. They do not warm up the sound, or make it comfortable in any way. They are supposed to help the engineer find out what is wrong, rather than cover it up. Thus, they may not be a good choice for home listening, especially if you have a collection of very compressed MP3 files. This kind of speaker, though, tends to be rather expensive.

 

[kpit]

Thanks to both of you. so I am striking out monitor speakers from my wishlist. Now I might narrow down my choice only to stereo setup, probably an Integrated amp and 2 speakers of good quality (I will remove SUB for now and add it later if needed).
I am not sure how it would differ in terms of setup price and quality if I chose to an Integrated AMP, PRE-AMP and POWER-AMP, AV Receiver connecting to good book shelf speakers.

 

[manoj.p]

There is quite mis-conceptions about the monitors.

As Thad pointed out, the name came from recording industry. The speakers used at recording studios were needed to be most natural, most accurate, without any sound signature. So engineers could monitor the recording in the studio during mix. The idea is to get the sound without discoloration. They have accurate imaging, very good on-axis and off-axis response and flattest response in the frequency range. There were some which had the built in amp, hence the name active monitor.

Now, about their usage at home. If you want the accurate response from the speaker without any unnecessary highlighting of bass, mids or highs, Studio monitors work out very well and are in fact way better than consumer speakers. Studio monitors are pro speakers and are built to a very high quality specifications. Afterall, aren't we all want accurate speakers?

Since the speakers are accurate, people say you need only high quality sources as Thad pointed out rightly. But I would say its an misconception. Yes, having better sources always help but a good speaker is always a good speaker. It can be revealing but it will still sound nice. If the highs sound too bright, then we can always adjust the treble tone from the receiver and bring down the highs.

About bass - It depends upon the speakers frequency response. Some studio monitors roll off at 80 Hz or so. More likely the active monitors roll off at that frequency because more power needed below that to get the loudness. But if you look for passive monitors, they can go as low as 35hz. Those speakers won't need subs to produce movie and still have very accurate and tight bass.

I have JBL 4410a studio monitors. Before I bought those, I had similar doubts. Once I heard them, bought instantly. I have three of those acting as left, center and right. They go down to 35hz but I have crossed those at 60 hz. Before these JBL's, I had Ascend Acoustics 340SE speakers and they are very very nice speakers. But the JBL's were quite an improvement over those. Almost everyone who has come to listen have commented so.

I would suggest not to just write those off from your list. If possible, try listening to those and hear yourself. If those are good for recording engineers, they are good for us too.

 

[Brajendu]

Hello KPIT,

Manoj has given some valuable and appropriate advise, as well as Thad. Both have good experience with Studio Monitors I believe, where as I never had any monitor so far. It should be your own ears to finalize after hearing any speaker that you intend to buy. Please go out any arrange for a demo. You can contact 'Aquarios Audio, Pune' for Behringer Studio Monitors. M-Audio will also be good but not sure if they are available in Pune.

But if you take the path of "Amp+Bookshelf", best option would be am Integrated Amp and a pair of BS. "Preamp+Power Amp+Speaker" will be pricier than your budget.

MANOJ, may I ask where can we get the "JBL 4410a" ? I Goggled but couldn't find may leads. It seems that its kindda vintage piece now. is it still in production and will it be available in India? can you please shed some light on this?

 

[kpit]

Hmm...
I will do audition for monitor speakers as well.
I live in PUNE.
Can you please advise if anyone sells Monitor speakers in Pune..so that I will
plan to visit and audition them...?

If you can also provide me the price details and list of monitor speakers, so that I will limit my audition as per my budget..

 

[Brajendu]

I already mentioned the Dealer that I knew. And I can only hint but I'm not updating myself for price detail and a complete list of Monitor speakers. You need to work on that.

 

[kpit]

Sorry.. I missed the details. I will go and visit them. and then start further search...

 

[manoj.p]

Brajendu,

Your are right. JBL does not produce the 44xx series anymore and those are like vintage speakers. I bought them used. But had to look for those on craigslist, ebay etc for a long time. JBL has now the LSR63xx series as replacement. Not sure whether they sell those in India. You need to contact JBL or their dealers and ask.

As for other brands for studio monitors, I did little reading when I bought these speakers. Don't have firsthand experience about others, but Yamaha, Behringer, KRK, M-Audio, Mackie, Genelec comes to mind. There are certain versions of studio monitors for home market too. Don't know what to make of it though.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I have M-Audio speakers for my PC. Plenty of bass! In fact, given that my speaker/listening positioning is really bad (I sit in an alcove, mid-way between two walls, with the speakers facing across that space). It could never be ideal, but I realise that I should have gone for a speaker with a smaller woofer.

Even a smaller model KRK is more expensive than my M-Audios, but, from hearing KRK play in the shop, that is what I would like to have. There's a pair of Adams in our forum for-sale section. In the unlikely event of having 40,000 to spend, they would probably be utterly superb. That's more than I spent on my hifi speakers! Would love to try them, even if I had to knock a wall down! Much of my music listening is late-night. An old habit I've been able to recommence with the purchase of decent headphones about six months ago (wife asleep one door away) and for that, of course, the position does not matter.

M-Audio is entry level home-studio stuff, but still a lot more expensive than lower-end "multi-media" computer speakers.

I agree that better speakers make most stuff sound better (years ago, I used to feed the mono headphone out of a cheap clock radio radio through my hifi. At least the frequency response was heaps better than the built-in 1-inch speaker! However, I suspect that the phenomenon known as compression fatigue from highly compressed MP3s is worse on better speakers. You may not notice it on your portable player, but you do notice it on good speakers.

It is entirely subjective. I don't know if I'd pass a blind test, even. I just experience that I get irritated by something when listening to a lot of internet stuff.

Best, of course, not to [lossy] compress the music we play at home. When I load up my "gadget," I convert to lower bitrate files only for portable listening.

 

[Prajit]

Kpit,
If you are interested in Active monitors one of the forum is selling his monitors...nice deal
http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owner/19576-adam-a7-active-monitor-pair-2.html

 

[cyber_cat]

hi kpit,

for your budget Sonodyne SM50AK stuido monitors will also be a contender, this member "mahiruha" has brought them, so you can contact him for further clarifications

 

[jaudere]

hi,
I have auditioned yamaha Msp5 Active monitors. The sound was pleasing. As per the manual, its range is 55hz onwards but the range is at -10dB. So practically it must be 65hz onwards. Ideally they should give range at -3 dB.However i found bass to be adequate at least for the songs that i listened to.
Cost was 14k per piece. So 28k per pair. They were looking very well made.
MSP7 has larger woof and retails for about 20k per piece.

Yamaha is much more regarded for its pro audio products than its stereo products for home audio.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Kpit,
If you are interested in Active monitors one of the forum is selling his monitors...nice deal
http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owner/19576-adam-a7-active-monitor-pair-2.html

Ahh, yes, the Adams that I mentioned.

I have no doubt whatsoever that these are superb, even though I have never heard an Adam speaker --- but, hey, the budget :sad:.

I think that these speakers are completely independent, featuring an amplifier built into each one. The practical downside of this, is that it means controlling the volume of each speaker individually. Getting the balance right is not something one would want to do each time you need something a little louder or quieter! In the studio, there would be analogue volume control at the mixer.

Of course, there is digital control available on the PC, but I don't think it is good to cut the digital signal.

Never mind... it is only the higher-level active monitors that have this dual-mono approach. I don't think it applies at the budget level kpit (or me!) are looking at.

 

[jaudere]

Hope you know Budhwar Peth. In the lane opposite old Vasant cinema( i hope you know this place), there is a shop in pro audio called 'Paras electronics'. He has many imported brands. Reasonable prices. That shop is quite famous in the area as no one else has so much variety and quality brands in pro audio. But Beware. Avoid that area after 7pm. If you are in pune since long, you must be knowing why.

Incidentally, Lamington road in Mumbai and Budhwar peth in Pune share this odd property. Very good electrical and electronics market during day time and Famous as red light areas at night.

Made a mistake in trying to find a shop on Lamington road at 8:30. Before I could understand what I have done, i was surrounded by few **** agents. Luckily nothing untowards happened and I made successful exit from area within 2 min.

 

[manoj.p]

Ahh, yes, the Adams that I mentioned.

I have no doubt whatsoever that these are superb, even though I have never heard an Adam speaker --- but, hey, the budget :sad:.

I think that these speakers are completely independent, featuring an amplifier built into each one. The practical downside of this, is that it means controlling the volume of each speaker individually. Getting the balance right is not something one would want to do each time you need something a little louder or quieter! In the studio, there would be analogue volume control at the mixer.

Of course, there is digital control available on the PC, but I don't think it is good to cut the digital signal.

Never mind... it is only the higher-level active monitors that have this dual-mono approach. I don't think it applies at the budget level kpit (or me!) are looking at.

Thad,

The active monitors take line level input. At that point, the digital audio is already decode and converted to analog. Volume can be changed/controlled at the point where the decoding happens. Many of the dedicated amps don't even have volume control. What they sometimes have is level/gain control which is what the active monitors also have. That is used only to set the levels for all the speakers, matching them. Then its not touched at all.

The volume then is controlled from where the decoding is done. Usually its a pre-amp/processor level. In case of PC, if the line level output is used, then soundcard can control the volume, no problem there.

 

[jaudere]

@Manoj
I think what Thad is saying that it is better to keep volume on PC to max. It is digital volume control. So reducing it gets the sound closer to noise floor. This is exactly opposite to analogue where increasing volume pushes it closer to noise floor(distortion). When I use PC as source, I keep the volume in software as well as system volume to full and control final volume with amplifier.
I think Thad is experienced enough to know that usually there is on DAC In the monitors