My Experiments With Truth

[reju]

IN NO WAY A DIY SPEAKER IS LESS INFERIOR TO A BRANDED ONE

THEN AND ONLY THEN A SYSTEM IS COMPLETE

Hey I know DIY speakers mean a lot to you, but you cannot prove yourself by typing big/caps/bold/red. And I don't need to write any bigger to put my point across, moreover one needs to maintain a decorum in this forum...

 

[reju]

My band (in Cal, ~6 years ago) was playing oldie rock basically, back in Mumbai I knew a few guys doing some fusion work but most of the guys were pretty deep into specific genres. I'm very interested in chord-melody style playing ala Andy McKee, Steve Lukather and some modern Classical players - Oscar Lopez for example, and I want to incorporate some of that with the lyrical style of the great writers - Bruce Springsteen, Jackson Browne, Dylan. I need more practice though, my chops are all rusty.

Hey cranky, in Kolkata, would you know any Neil by any chance???

 

[moserw]

@soundsgreat - I will trouble you with one more question.

What would be an approximate cost for your DIY stuff? Let's say everything worked the first time and you did not need to make 5 or 6 pairs. If each and every single component is used only once and the setup sounds better than branded stuff from 50K to 250K then can you tally up the costs of the components used and how much would it turn out to be?

For the first round I guess there will be trial and error, but once you have a perfect, satisfactory and working model then there will be no further need for trial and error right? You can build a second model without any of the mistakes involved in the first model right? So how much would such a second model cost?

 

[soundsgreat]

Hi,

Re: My Experiments With Truth
@soundsgreat - I will trouble you with one more question.

What would be an approximate cost for your DIY stuff? Let's say everything worked the first time and you did not need to make 5 or 6 pairs. If each and every single component is used only once and the setup sounds better than branded stuff from 50K to 250K then can you tally up the costs of the components used and how much would it turn out to be?

For the first round I guess there will be trial and error, but once you have a perfect, satisfactory and working model then there will be no further need for trial and error right? You can build a second model without any of the mistakes involved in the first model right? So how much would such a second model cost?
Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Thanks

Moser Lets not do this here please !! We'll stick to the topic,if you are that very much interested to know for whatever reasons we'll talk when you drop in or perhaps if you are impatient then through PM or mail !!

And let me make one point very clear, I have very clearly mentioned that to some speakers it came very very close and some it outperformed !

the setup sounds better than branded stuff from 50K to 250K

so what you say it sounds better then is not my view point ! coz I don't want to create any more confusions then its already present !

Hey I know DIY speakers mean a lot to you, but you cannot prove yourself by typing big/caps/bold/red. And I don't need to write any bigger to put my point across, moreover one needs to maintain a decorum in this forum...

Well Reju I will not comment anything in spirit of this thread ! As with maintaining the decorum,People here know who is what !!

Regards.

 

[moserw]

Moser Lets not do this here please !!

Alright. Nothing personal actually. I'm just wondering what kind of profit the big names would be operating with. I do know that lots of R&D and trial and error goes into making the perfect product, but once done its relatively easy to duplicate it. Just wondering if the components are so cheap (relatively speaking here) then are we only paying for the R&D, the marketing overheads, the salaries of the staff etc. but not really paying for the speaker cost itself.

 

[soundsgreat]

Hi,

Alright. Nothing personal actually.

No worries buddy personal or otherwise I just didn't want to deviate from the topic (and yet here I am :lol: ) !

I'm just wondering what kind of profit the big names would be operating with. I do know that lots of R&D and trial and error goes into making the perfect product, but once done its relatively easy to duplicate it. Just wondering if the components are so cheap (relatively speaking here) then are we only paying for the R&D, the marketing overheads, the salaries of the staff etc. but not really paying for the speaker cost itself.

Moser isn't this the universal truth ?? Have no doubt my friend that when you pay for the product its always not the just BOM + margins !! its much much more then that !! This topic is done to death in various forums and also in this very forum ! so shall not divulge into this again !

Regards.

 

[suri]

these experiments have led to the discovery of a most depressing fact -

i have mild to moderate sensori-neural hearing loss with greater loss for the speech frequencies.

i went to an audiologist, who checked my hearing with an audiometer.

As soon as i got back home, i called in two of my younger friends and repeated the cable experiment - to them the differences between the single strand cable (?29 awg) and the 2.5 sq.m.m. finolex (as far as perceived sound was concerned) was glaringly obvious, and they preferred the 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex.

with 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex on one channel and the single strand on the other channel, they reported that the female voice did not sound good or right, and that the treble had become too bright- it was better with 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex on both channels.

no differences were reported between 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex and 4.0 sq. m.m. finolex .

Surprisingly, they found differences between the van den hul (which is silver plated multi-strand copper) and the finolex - both preferred the van den hul sound - even upon repeated questioning, they were sure that they preferred the van den hul sound.

So the conclusions to be drawn by me (with inputs from all forum members {THANKS TO ALL!!!) re this experiment are-

(1) cables that connect the electronics and the transducers (whether in the recording or reproduction of sound) do make a difference, and have to be optimised for the best subjective experience.

(2)i have hearing loss and i now feel a strange kinship with beethoven!

(3) like the Mahatma, i have not discovered anything of import!

 

[soundsgreat]

Hi,

i have mild to moderate sensori-neural hearing loss with greater loss for the speech frequencies.

i went to an audiologist, who checked my hearing with an audiometer.

Suri Am saddened by then news :sad:! But Am sure now that you know, you can figure a way out to overcome this issue !!

On a happy note,Am really glad that you choose to repeat the experiment with friends and they were able to hear the difference:clapping: !!

This only proves and strengthens my theory that cables do make a perceivable difference in sound hyeah: !!

Thanks for sharing the info with Us Suri ! Btw when are you coming to Bangalore ?

Regards.

 

[reju]

these experiments have led to the discovery of a most depressing fact -

i have mild to moderate sensori-neural hearing loss with greater loss for the speech frequencies.

i went to an audiologist, who checked my hearing with an audiometer.

As soon as i got back home, i called in two of my younger friends and repeated the cable experiment - to them the differences between the single strand cable (?29 awg) and the 2.5 sq.m.m. finolex (as far as perceived sound was concerned) was glaringly obvious, and they preferred the 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex.

with 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex on one channel and the single strand on the other channel, they reported that the female voice did not sound good or right, and that the treble had become too bright- it was better with 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex on both channels.

no differences were reported between 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex and 4.0 sq. m.m. finolex .

Surprisingly, they found differences between the van den hul (which is silver plated multi-strand copper) and the finolex - both preferred the van den hul sound - even upon repeated questioning, they were sure that they preferred the van den hul sound.

So the conclusions to be drawn by me (with inputs from all forum members {THANKS TO ALL!!!) re this experiment are-

(1) cables that connect the electronics and the transducers (whether in the recording or reproduction of sound) do make a difference, and have to be optimised for the best subjective experience.

(2)i have hearing loss and i now feel a strange kinship with beethoven!

(3) like the Mahatma, i have not discovered anything of import!

Your partial hearing loss is a dampener..And it raises a question for many:

Am I hearing right? Or do I too suffer an unknowing loss of hearing??
When I play music, do my children find it too loud? Am I hearing the way it's meant to heard??

Suri, have you been exposed to high volume music for long periods? At home, at pubs etc., over these years?

I have been, and maybe I am a strong contender for partial hearing loss?!

Life is so unpredictable!!:sad:

 

[moserw]

@Suri - Very sorry to hear about it. I'm in agreement with others you will overcome it though. Keep sharing your experiments and keep us all informed.

 

[Vijay_s]

@Suri - Very sorry to hear about it. I'm in agreement with others you will overcome it though. Keep sharing your experiments and keep us all informed.

Yesterday i tried to Run-in my new 9.1 diamond speakers by the instruction provided in another thread, i kept the volume to half and played pink noise, suddenly i realized the annoying sound and reduced the volume within 3-5 seconds. But by that time my ear started paining and it continued for another 2-3 hours. My advise is that please be cautious while playing the speaker run-in wav files it can cause partial or permanent hearing problem.

I decided i never try it again...

 

[moserw]

Yesterday i tried to Run-in my new 9.1 diamond speakers by the instruction provided in another thread, i kept the volume to half and played pink noise, suddenly i realized the annoying sound and reduced the volume within 3-5 seconds. But by that time my ear started paining and it continued for another 2-3 hours. My advise is that please be cautious while playing the speaker run-in wav files it can cause partial or permanent hearing problem.

I decided i never try it again...

Just run them in with regular music. That's what I do, just play it for long hours and play overnight too.

And everyone like svkndv says please be careful.

 

[keith_correa]

@Suri - sorry to hear about your hearing. Just count your blessings compared to other people worse off than you - and you will be OK.

 

[keith_correa]

these experiments have led to the discovery of a most depressing fact -

i have mild to moderate sensori-neural hearing loss with greater loss for the speech frequencies.

i went to an audiologist, who checked my hearing with an audiometer.

As soon as i got back home, i called in two of my younger friends and repeated the cable experiment - to them the differences between the single strand cable (?29 awg) and the 2.5 sq.m.m. finolex (as far as perceived sound was concerned) was glaringly obvious, and they preferred the 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex.

with 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex on one channel and the single strand on the other channel, they reported that the female voice did not sound good or right, and that the treble had become too bright- it was better with 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex on both channels.

no differences were reported between 2.5 sq. m.m. finolex and 4.0 sq. m.m. finolex .

Surprisingly, they found differences between the van den hul (which is silver plated multi-strand copper) and the finolex - both preferred the van den hul sound - even upon repeated questioning, they were sure that they preferred the van den hul sound.

So the conclusions to be drawn by me (with inputs from all forum members {THANKS TO ALL!!!) re this experiment are-

(1) cables that connect the electronics and the transducers (whether in the recording or reproduction of sound) do make a difference, and have to be optimised for the best subjective experience.

(2)i have hearing loss and i now feel a strange kinship with beethoven!

(3) like the Mahatma, i have not discovered anything of import!

Suri - just asking - but was this a blind test?

 

[murali_n]

Hai Suri,

There is a considerable and audible difference in speaker as well as Ic cables. It will be detectable only in GOOD QUALITY recordings. I found that a Monster IC sounded with clear vocals when compared to a local IC between the CDP and AMP. And Monster Spk cables gave a very full bodied sound compared to local copper cables.

Thanks,

N Murali.

 

[square_wave]

Well, I just moved back so am in the process of starting my band up, though most of the members have family duties and are therefore difficult to grab a hold of.

My band (in Cal, ~6 years ago) was playing oldie rock basically, back in Mumbai I knew a few guys doing some fusion work but most of the guys were pretty deep into specific genres. I'm very interested in chord-melody style playing ala Andy McKee, Steve Lukather and some modern Classical players - Oscar Lopez for example, and I want to incorporate some of that with the lyrical style of the great writers - Bruce Springsteen, Jackson Browne, Dylan. I need more practice though, my chops are all rusty.

I guess we'll start jamming soon enough and we'd also be looking for musicians (a bass player, and a keyboard player - our piano guy passed away in Goa in January) to fill the band out. Will PM you once we have a session. We won't be doing many shows to start with, not until we get into some sort of rythm and find our groove.

We can go back on topic please

Good to know that you used to play in a band Cranky. Having a reference point live instrument is absolutely critical to gauge any electronic gear.
I was listening to thermal and a quarter doing some fusion with a saxophonist (Nate Linkon) at the local Jazz bar yesterday. I agree with you about the energy in the 2-6 KHz range.. Nothing comes close to Live.

 

[gobble]

Sorry to hear about your hearing impediment Suri.
Your experiment was an interesting effort.
Take care

Regards

 

[suri]

Suri - just asking - but was this a blind test?

No, was not a blind test, the listeners watched me as i changed the cables, and perhaps, because the van den huls looked good (better than the finolex anyway) they ........................!

 

[psychotropic]

oh wow...nate is back? TAAQ sound brilliant with Nate.

Good to know that you used to play in a band Cranky. Having a reference point live instrument is absolutely critical to gauge any electronic gear.
I was listening to thermal and a quarter doing some fusion with a saxophonist (Nate Linkon) at the local Jazz bar yesterday. I agree with you about the energy in the 2-6 KHz range.. Nothing comes close to Live.

 

[unleash_me]

Happened to come across this discussion. Any DIY folks out there can help?