My final decision..Denon 1713 and Wharfedale DX1

[ajitelsy]

Hi Guys,
Can anyone give me a take on the Denon 2113 with wharfedale 10.1 package
1)One Pair Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 bookshelf speakers (Walnut Finish) = 23500/-

2) One Piece Wharfedale Diamond 10.CC centre speaker (Walnut Finish) = 11500/-

3)One Pair Wharfedale Diamond 10.DFS rear surround speakers (Black Finish) = 14000/-

4)One Piece Wharfedale Diamond SW-150 Subwoofer (Walnut Finish) = 26500
I am in Kerala is this a good combo.Thanks

 

[angynagpal]

Any idea if its possible to store multiple audeyssey settings for denon 1713, e.g. I carried out the audeyssey calibration with center speaker above the tv, then saved the settings. Then I carried out the calibration with center speaker below the tv, now can I save both these setting and switch between them?? Or maybe I can download a backup of the two settings to PC and restore it based on where I keep the speaker.

 

[matoind]

For speaker(SPK18) and HDMI cables by DAC..Optical and AV cables (for DVD) MX make..Demo done by dealer person..Wiring/fitting done by my electrician..

Even I have bought the same speakers. I guess you have used a AWG 18 cable. My distance of the Rear Satellites is approx 32 Feet. I was thinking of using a AWG 14 wire as suggested on the link Choosing The Correct Speaker Cable

How far is your Satellite from the Receiver?

 

[umapati]

Even I have bought the same speakers. I guess you have used a AWG 18 cable. My distance of the Rear Satellites is approx 32 Feet. I was thinking of using a AWG 14 wire as suggested on the link Choosing The Correct Speaker Cable

How far is your Satellite from the Receiver?

Rear satellites are approx. 20 feet from receiver - on both side..

 

[edge111hussain]

Hi Guys,
Can anyone give me a take on the Denon 2113 with wharfedale 10.1 package
1)One Pair Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 bookshelf speakers (Walnut Finish) = 23500/-

2) One Piece Wharfedale Diamond 10.CC centre speaker (Walnut Finish) = 11500/-

3)One Pair Wharfedale Diamond 10.DFS rear surround speakers (Black Finish) = 14000/-

4)One Piece Wharfedale Diamond SW-150 Subwoofer (Walnut Finish) = 26500
I am in Kerala is this a good combo.Thanks

Get the 10.1 instead of 10.2 since u r buying a sub
Get the 10 CS instead of cc. You are anyways gonna save money on the 10.1, reallocate the funds towards the 10CS.
IMHO 14k on surrounds for a low end system is an overkill, but if u like it, buy it

 

[angynagpal]

Finally!!!!! Received the package on Saturday....got it installed yesterday :yahoo:!!!!!

Here are the pics:






Before I post my views on the system, there are a couple of issues I am facing:

a) When running the Audyssey, it detected my right speaker being out of phase. However, I checked the cable, and it was connected correctly as per me (the side with writing was attached to '+' on both speaker and avr, while the other was attached to '-'). I even tried to switch the connections on the avr, but the result was the same, Audyssey still showed the right speaker as not in phase. The sound from the speaker seems ok to me though. Dont know what is happening here.

b) Cant seem to get 5.1 when playing a '6 channel movie' (tried 3-4 different movies I had with surround sound) on my laptop, which is connected to the avr using a hdmi cable. I am using the vlc player for this.

c) Cant seem to get 5.1, when playing a 6 channel movie from a pen drive connected to the LG TV (LW 5700). The sound is flowing to the avr over hdmi using ARC. It only gives stereo sound.


Anyways, even after the issues mentioned above, I was still able to demo the system thanks to the Airtel HD Settop box and an optical cable I had with me :lol:!

Here are my views/experiences (although its too early to comment):

- Seting it up was a breeze, though will need to read the manual for some stuff.

- My initial reactions were, its damn good....but is it worth the price?? The sound from an un-calibrated system was very good though....watched a few clips from Starmovies hd, and the whole room was filled with clear sound. The speakers produce a fantastic sound, but I will need to do some calibration (no idea though about how to get the perfect result ) to make the speakers work well in unison. Right now, the individual speakers are working great, but I can make out from where the sound is coming. I have not calibrated the system yet and am using the default settings.

- Listened to some music (flac files playing through laptop connected via hdmi). It wasnt a test or anything, but just that the laptop was the first thing I could find to connect to this avr . Needless to say, was not at all happy with the sound. Will test out a few music files through the usb slot.

- As mentioned before, couldnt get 5.1 from ARC or laptop, however, while using PLII for the movie (with 6 channel audio) the surround sound effect were damn good, though nowhere as clear and powerful as they were when watching the movie on Starmovies hd.

- I did hear a great deal of distortion (like phata hua sound (torned sound)...sorry didnt have any other words) in the files played through arc which has surround sound. As told before, the avr recognized them as stereo, and time and again I could hear that torned sound when the music got little loud. I didnt have the speakers on very high volume (ard 78-80db), but still heard that sound. However, once I changed it to PLII, there was no such sound even with the volume pretty high (85db). Needless to say, no torned sound at all when watching Starmovies HD on pretty high volume (85db), so am assuming its the source.

- Pretty happy with the bass. Its not chest thumping, but it did cause a huge amount of rumble on the floor (wooden/laminate flooring ftw). It felt like the whole house was shaking. However, it did get a little boomy time and again, but again that might be due to non-calibration. I have kept the sub volume at 50% (as suggested in audyssey setup) and crossover at 1-2 O'clock position. Phase is at 0 degrees.

Overall, based on the couple of movies I saw, one on Starmovies HD while other using ARC but with PLII, I am pretty happy at the moment....but not fully satisfied. WIll continue to tweak the settings and play a lot more stuff on it before stating my final verdict !!! As of now, I am happy, but not fully satisfied.



Edit:

- Have been able to solve the 5.1 from laptop issue. There were a few settings that had to be done on the laptop for it to work. Works like a charm now !!!

- Have got the 5.1 working from ARC as well now, so that is solved as well !


Now the only issue is the Right speaker which is shown as out of phase by Audyssey. As mentioned before, I even tried to switch the wires on the AVR, but audyssey still states that it is not in phase. Also, while running a bluray rip (Avengers) the right speaker gives a 'phhattt' sound in the scene (within the first 5 minutes of the movie) where the helicopter flies over the mountains (Sound moves from Rear Right to Front Right to Center with good bass). This happens when the volume is 80db and more. If I keep it at 78db, the sound is not audible. Any help for these two issues would greatly appreciated !!

I tried another test with it, I switched the front left and front right wires on the AVR (this way the front right speaker was now front left) . Ran the audyssey test and the result was that the front left speaker was out of phase. So this shows that it is that particular speaker that is out of phase. Any idea on what the reason could be? Is there anything wrong with the speaker? Please help.

 

[matoind]

It looks more like a speaker problem. Because had there been a cable / Rec eiver / Connection problems, the problem would have shifted to other speaker.

 

[angynagpal]

Hey guys....its me back again !!

Glad to say....I have calibrated the system and tested it out quite a bit, so I think I can now give my final review !

Before I get on with it, a small update regarding the problems I had mentioned in my previous post....I have been able to sort them all out....no more issues with the system anymore !

Anyways, here are my views regarding this setup:

THIS SPEAKER SET IS JUST plain AWESOME!!!!!! I apologize for making this the first line of this review, but gosh...I really mean it!! I have to say, once it is calibrated according to your tastes, it just takes you to a whole different world!

If anybody here is wondering what the difference between a calibrated setup and a non-calibrated one is (as I did....I always thought that even a non-calibrated system, if its good, cant sound that bad )....well just imagine eating rice, ghee, nutmeg, mace, pepper, cloves, cardamom, cinnamon, coriander, ginger, onions and garlic individually as compared to mixing them all and eating a freaking good delicious Biryani :licklips:. Thats how I would like to distinguish between a non-calibrated system and a decently calibrated one.

Coming back to my setup, I still have not calibrated the system perfectly (obviously!!! Heck...I just started to understand what the various terms in the denon setup mean...), but based on whatever I was able to do through trial and error, I am now in love with this setup !! It has lived upto all my expectations (though not exceeded them ...but that is only because I heard some awesome setups in awesomely calibrated rooms when I went to pick these speakers up)!

I tried to play bluray rips and blurays from TV (sound through ARC), laptop & ps3, and this speaker set delivered the most amazing experience for all of them. Bear in mind that I already had a sony htib 5-6 years back, so I have experienced movies in a HTIB setup, but this system really takes it to a totally different level of immersion. If calibrated nicely, the sound from this setup is always comfortable to the ears while still delivering the punch required in movies. As I said before....am totally in love with it!!! Infact, its has made me think even more of buying a projector now, as my 42inch led tv is really not able to match the sound performance from this set....I need a much much bigger picture to justify the sound from this system hyeah:!

I even tried a couple of movies which did not have 6 channel sound (infact the file had 92.0Kbps, 48.0 KHz, 2 Channel AAC LC sound which is very low quality indeed) with PLII activated, and this setup still managed to provide a powerful sound experience with good surround sound (which was surprising as my past experiences with PL were not very good. I could hear dialogues from R&L speakers as well, while denon was able to channelize the sounds pretty well. My friends didnt even realize its a stereo audio file). The experience was very much enjoyable (i.e. if you enjoy the movie rather than have a critical listening session).


For music, I played some flac files and mp3 files (the same ones that disappointed me before), and this time around I just loved the sound emitted by the front speakers. The soundstage that they create is just breathtaking. I had to literally go to the center to check that no sound was coming from it ! And all this music was from the laptop or directly through usb.


However, I am a little disappointed with the sub (maybe I haven calibrated it well) as it does blend well with the speakers, but doesnt provide the punch or the chest-throbbing/couch shaking bass that people talk about. However, as I said, it blends perfectly well with the overall sound, and makes the listening experience comfortable (though I would like the occasional couch shaking bass).

Overall, I am thoroughly impressed with this set, and I have to say, it is really worth every penny spent on it!!:licklips:


Here are some of the settings that I have in the system (most of it from Audyssey, but I fine tuned some of them based on trial and error to get to the level of sound that I now enjoy):

(I) Speaker Size:

Front: Small
Surround: Small
Center: Small
Subwoofer: Yes

(II)

Subwoofer mode - LFE
LPF for LFE 120Hz (As set by default / Audyssey)

(III) Distance (As calculated by Audyssey):

Front Left: 2.22m
Front Right: 2.04m
Center: 2.07m
Sub: 2.13m
Surround Left: 1.68m
Surround Right: 1.47m


(IV) Levels (As calculated by Audyssey):

Front Left: +1.0db
Center: -4.0dbb
Front Right: 0.0db
Surr Right: -1.0db
Surr Left: -1.0db
Sub: -5.0db

Physical Volume on sub is at slightly more than half position (was half during audyssey run). Physical Crossover knob at 1 clock position.


(V) Crossovers (From Audyssey):

Front: 80Hz (I changed it to 120Hz which seemed to cure the 'Phhattt' sound when a particular low frequency was emitted)
Center: 90Hz (Changed to 120Hz)
Surround: 80Hz (Changed to 120Hz)

(VI)

Dynamic Volume at Medium (changed it to 'Off' as I didnt like the sound with it on)


(VII) Extras:

Cinema EQ: Off
Low Frequency: 0dB
Dialogue Level: -1.0dB (audyssey kept it at -4.0dB, but I liked the experience after increasing it to -1.0dB)
Sub Woofer Level: -5dB
Volume Scale: 0-98
Limit: Off
Power On Level: Last
Mute Level: Full
MultiEQ XT: Audeyssey (I also Audeyssey liked 'Bypass L/R' even though it is not recommended by Audyddey)
Dynamic EQ: ON
Reference Offset: 0dB
Dynamic Volume: Off
Cinema EQ: Off


Cheers guys!

 

[rshri]

Good to know that speaker problem is solved. I am curious - Why did you first set it's crossover at 80Hz? How did you learn that increasing this level will fix problem?
How did you calibrate your setup?
Also - Maybe increasing the sub DB level will give you the bass punch you are missing?

 

[angynagpal]

Good to know that speaker problem is solved. I am curious - Why did you first set it's crossover at 80Hz? How did you learn that increasing this level will fix problem?
How did you calibrate your setup?
Also - Maybe increasing the sub DB level will give you the bass punch you are missing?

Well, I dont think its completely sorted out. I just played the clip again and it made the same noise. So it seems sometimes it makes that noise and sometimes it doesnt. Am as confused now!

Edit:

Well here is the wierd part. When I run the clip at 110Hz, it gives that sound. When I change it to 120Hz while the movie is paused and then play the movie, it still gives that sound. But when I play it the 3rd time on 120Hz, that sound is not there. After this if I play again on 120Hz, then that sound is not there. Now, if I switch back to 110Hz while movie is paused, again the sound is not there. Then when I restart at 110Hz (sorry if it sounds too confusing) that sound is there. So it means that the sound is definitely not there at 120Hz, however, the denon is not taking into account the change in frequency when the movie is paused. It takes the change into account after some delay. Will continue testing it, but am going out for 10-15 days, so will be able to test further only when I return.

 

[angynagpal]

In continuation of above, the sound which I am talking about it like couple of quick gun shots from an automatic gun (if u know what I mean). I think it's similar to the sound that is created when you touch the other end of the cable connected to a woofer to a metal area. Is it possible (might sound dumb ) that there is some short circuit happening at some particular frequencies?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[umapati]

In continuation of above, the sound which I am talking about it like couple of quick gun shots from an automatic gun (if u know what I mean). I think it's similar to the sound that is created when you touch the other end of the cable connected to a woofer to a metal area. Is it possible (might sound dumb ) that there is some short circuit happening at some particular frequencies?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

I have set cross over as follows and it works fantastic..

Front : 100 mhz
Center: 80 mhz
Surround: 100 mhz

and in Bass setting :

Subwoofer mode: LFE
LPF for LFE : 100 mhz
Regarding tight bass you will get the best performance after using it for some days..Let the speaker get set and you will feel the difference in few days..

 

[angynagpal]

I have set cross over as follows and it works fantastic..

Front : 100 mhz
Center: 80 mhz
Surround: 100 mhz

and in Bass setting :

Subwoofer mode: LFE
LPF for LFE : 100 mhz
Regarding tight bass you will get the best performance after using it for some days..Let the speaker get set and you will feel the difference in few days..

Thanks! I think based on my listening distance from the speakers, am getting enough bass outta them at 120Hz.....anything under that can go to the sub. The reason why I wanna keep it at 120Hz is because at 100, it is giving me popping sounds at some particular frequency if I keep the volume above 81dB.

After going through this link it states how more power is required to produce low frequency sounds and the more lower you go + the more volume you keep, the more power is required out of the amp. The speaker set (DX-1) is rated at 4ohms, so it is anyways driving double power from the amp.

This is the issue I am facing:

When I am playing this brrip 'Avengers' (and also in a couple of mp3 songs + sound in battlefield), it hits a particular frequency when in the beginning the chopper moves from the Rear Right to the Front Right speaker, at which point I hear a popping noise in the front right speaker (happened even when I had a different speaker there). Now it just happens once or twice in that song/movie but it seems it is pretty harmful for the speaker. Now, this popping sound is produced only when I increase the volume above 80dB at 110Hz/100Hz crossover. However, if I increase the crossover for fronts to 120Hz, this popping sound is not produced till 85dB. Some of the movies require me to play them at 79-80dB, so I think its better to keep the crossover at 120Hz, unless ofcourse I have got it all wrong, and it is something else that is causing this popping problem.

Would like to hear from you if you are able to hear this popping sound when keeping volume levels high (82+db) at 100Hz crossover. Maybe from a bass heavy mp3 or something. Also if you could share the speaker levels you have kept, it would also help.

 

[matoind]

Though I have bought dx-1, I guess they are over hyped speakers. They have been sold at discount to clear stocks.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[angynagpal]

Though I have bought dx-1, I guess they are over hyped speakers. They have been sold at discount to clear stocks.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

From what I have heard in the last two days.....I think they are absolutely worth the hype :clapping:!!!!

 

[rshri]

Though I have bought dx-1, I guess they are over hyped speakers. They have been sold at discount to clear stocks.

Its out of stock now, so you could be right! However, its a natural cycle for all electronics - You get discounts for products being replaced with new product-line. Its not a bad thing.
What other option did you have?

 

[AshD]

Glad to say....I have calibrated the system and tested it out quite a bit, so I think I can now give my final review !

The review was great, but I have a basic question for someone uninitiated like myself, how does one go about calibrating the setup?

Is there a "How to calibrate your setup for Dummies"

Ash

 

[Kittu]

Though I have bought dx-1, I guess they are over hyped speakers. They have been sold at discount to clear stocks.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Good marketing strategy! but can some one cheat your ears/eyes?

When it comes to audio equipment, one should decide to audition more brands and make a decision. People go with discounted mind will get a discounted product, be it in price + quality and clarity.

 

[matoind]

Good marketing strategy! but can some one cheat your ears/eyes?

When it comes to audio equipment, one should decide to audition more brands and make a decision. People go with discounted mind will get a discounted product, be it in price + quality and clarity.

Even the dealers having high end equipment don't have proper audition arrangement. Only two dealers in Delhi had the requested equipment ready. (Sound Lounge and Snob Shop). Rest Everywhere (Bass n Treble, M R Sons, FX Studio) they did not have the complete setup. If the Sats were of one type, the Sub woofer was another. Or maybe the Front Sats were what you wanted to try but the rear ones were of a different class/ Brand. Or maybe they were a smaller or larger model than the one you wanted. You are told that they are the approximate quality and guess an estimate. Then there were some shops in GK M Block market (forgot the same) that said that they deal in only high end equipment and don't have budget systems. (They were not interested in Systems less than a couple of Lakhs)

The audio systems industry does not have enough volumes to justify auditions. (They claim that the Speaker / AV receivers become unsaleable the moment you open the seal of the carton.)

So at the end you can just rely on various forums and magazines. In Mumbai maybe the scene is different because all the importers are based there.

 

[umapati]

Though I have bought dx-1, I guess they are over hyped speakers. They have been sold at discount to clear stocks.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

I don't agree with this statement, because I own this system and its simply superb..fantastic performance.I have auditioned so many systems and HT packages and after that I finalized this package..I never feel regret by its performance..its really value for the money package..I am very happy with it as it satisfies my all needs in terms of watching movies or listening to music..