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need help in purchasing????

Wharfedale EVO4.4 Speaker

manu4panjab

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hello friends

need your advise

i recently purchase sony htib sony davdz850kw around 35k ans i'm really dissapointed
i have replaced its subwoofer two times from sony service station because it starts distortion and became muddy now i'm fed up

so need advise is htib any good for me its not but what you people have to say i'm waiting

here one more suggestion i need now i manage around 60000rs.
should i buy av receiver or i have one which i'm forward to lookin for demo is onkyo thx certified htib hts990

please reply i'm waiting

manu
 

dvdmk

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Dear Mr.Manu

Its very sad that your first system was a disappoinment for you , anyways now you are in the right forum .

If you are a Movie buff , then the best way to spend that Rs.60K is to go for a receiver and speaker package. But this depends on the room size you are going to install your theatre, floorstanders are best for a larger room and standmounts for a medium size rooms , and if your room is small then think of a sat / sub system.

if you are more into music then the best way is to get a stereo amplifier along with a speaker and a CD player with some good cables. \

before buying , decide the following.

Your room size
ratio of movie and music
type of music you listen
budget ( you already decided)

i think there are so many members in this forum who will be willing to help you.

David.
 

venkatcr

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hello friends

need your advise

i recently purchase sony htib sony davdz850kw around 35k ans i'm really dissapointed
i have replaced its subwoofer two times from sony service station because it starts distortion and became muddy now i'm fed up

so need advise is htib any good for me its not but what you people have to say i'm waiting

here one more suggestion i need now i manage around 60000rs.
should i buy av receiver or i have one which i'm forward to lookin for demo is onkyo thx certified htib hts990

please reply i'm waiting

manu


Manu:

Let me first answer your question that I have made bold above. Yes, the HTS990 is THX certified. Yes, theoretically, the equipment, if THX certified, should play the sound the way it was recorded. At the same time, please understand, a THX certification does not guarantee perfect sound. There are a lot of conditions that have to be met, including the listening environment or room acoustics.

Regarding your current system, though you are fed up, I would request you to be patient a little more and see if you can save some money.

There are a couple of things you could do.

(1)

a. Since the sub woofer is irritating you, instead of using another Sony sub, see if you can borrow a sub made by a loudspeaker company such as Wharfedale, Mordaunt Short etc. When I say borrow, what I mean is one of two options - take it for day from one of your friends who has one, or if you know a dealer well, request him for a demo at home for a few days.

b. Are you using the rear speakers as wireless units? If so, can you connect them through a cable? That might improve the sound, particularly if you are in an area where there are lots of mobile and internet traffic.

c. Similar to the sub woofer, try replacing the front floor standers with a good pair of speakers from a reputed speaker company. Even a pair of bookshelves will do. Listen to the system setting all the other speakers off. Listen to some music you like, and also see a movie you like with this set up.

d. I am assuming you are using the cables provided by Sony. Again see if you can replace the speaker cables of just the Front L & R, and see if there is an improvement. You can get good speaker cables for some 50Rs. a meter.

If you see a marked improvement using good speakers, that may very well be the issue, Just poor speakers. Replacing the Sony speakers with a good set of 5.1 speakers may very well keep you running for a year or so when you can save some more money and jump to a solid HT with separates.

(2)
Similar to the speakers, borrow a good DVD Player, and try that as a source instead of the Sony provided player.

(3)
Are you sure there is no room vibration or external noise that is not allowing the sub to work well? Have you heard of Bass Traps? You can get a carpenter to make two pairs that can be kept in the four corners of your room for less than Rs.2000. You will find a marked improvement in the base sound with Bass Traps. Also check your room to see if there are any items that vibrate. If so, these need to be repositioned.

It may be worthwhile checking some of these points before you throw away a system that you just purchased. Sony may be good in many things, but they are usually wanting in speaker design and manufacture. I had a pair of Sony speakers whose body looked as if it was made of highly compressed cardboard !!! Not plywood, not MDF!! I tried the system with a pair of Aperion Audio Speakers, and there was a marked improvement in sound !!

Cheers
 

manu4panjab

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how can i make bass traps

and no.2 i used rear speakers with wires

as you mentioned about different speakers can i use it with sony s master didgital amplifier that comes with its speakers with included dvd player
 

venkatcr

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how can i make bass traps

There are a number of tutorials available on the Net. Please read a few and come back.

YouTube - How to make a Bass Trap Acoustic Panel (Tutorial)
Build a Better Bass Trap


and no.2 i used rear speakers with wires as you mentioned about different speakers can i use it with sony s master didgital amplifier that comes with its speakers with included dvd player

You can use any speaker with ANY amplifier or receiver. The wattage and impedance are what you have to be careful about.

Cheers
 

venkatcr

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can i use 6ohm receiver with 8ohms speakers

Manu, yes you can drive 8 ohms speakers with an amp that is specified at 6 ohms. You will get slightly lesser power. For example, if your amp say 100 watts into 6 ohms, you will get somewhere around 75 watts into 8 ohms. There will also be a small difference in THD, but that will be too small to worry about.

Cheers
 

manu4panjab

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i have looking to onkyotx sr 606 it says 175 W/Ch Minimum into 6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, JEITA and frequency responce from5hz-100khz

and this klipsch speakers rf-52 it says 100 watts rms/400watts peak/impendence 8ohms

so if i use onkyo with these speakers how many watts i get for each channel

please reply
 

venkatcr

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The specs are a little confusing as they are now specified as per the standards set by FTC for US, JEITA for Japan/Asia, and IEC for Europe.

The specs are as follows:

Front L/R 175 W + 175 W (6 O, 1 kHz, 1 channel driven, JEITA)
Center 175 W (6 O, 1 kHz, 1 channel driven, JEITA)
Surround L/R 175 W + 175 W (6 O, 1 kHz, 1 channel driven, JEITA)
Surround Back L/R 175 W + 175 W (6 O, 1 kHz, 1 channel driven, JEITA)

What you will get is as follows:

Where it says 175 watts at 6 ohms, replace with roughly 130 watts at 8 ohms, 1 channel driven. This translates to somewhere between 90-110 watts of continuous power per channel for each pair/set of speakers, both channels driven.

You can drive your speakers comfortably. Just do not overload either the AVR or the speakers by listening at very high volumes.

Cheers
 

manu4panjab

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but i like to play loud so what should i do

should i buy upgraded receiver says 130 watts/channel at 8ohms

i'm gonna buy these speakers in few days klipsch synerengy f-2 complete package of 5.1

its specification 100 watts(400 watts peak),8ohms,95.5 db for front speakers and center speaker,100 watts(400 watts peak)8 ohms, 91 db
and subwoofer 12 inches 300 watt(600 watt peak)

so what to do please help me out from this confusion

and no.2 important thing as today we can mostly get 7.1 receiver do i play 5.1 speakers without any loss of quality or do i miss sumthing if not use extra rear speakers because mine room layout i can't use extra 2 rear speakers for 7.1

please reply

and thankx for all your support i really appreciate it
 

venkatcr

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manu4panjab said:
but i like to play loud so what should i do
should i buy upgraded receiver says 130 watts/channel at 8ohms

i'm gonna buy these speakers in few days klipsch synerengy f-2 complete package of 5.1

its specification 100 watts(400 watts peak),8ohms,95.5 db for front speakers and center speaker,100 watts(400 watts peak)8 ohms, 91 db and subwoofer 12 inches 300 watt(600 watt peak)

so what to do please help me out from this confusion

For heaven's sake, do not play very loud for either movies or music. One you will slowly go deaf, and second, beyond a certain 'volume', music and movie sound become noise.

As I mentioned yesterday, the 606 should pump out something like 100 watts of continuous power into all your speakers. If you mate this with your Klipsch which is also rated at 100 watts, you will enough 'volume' to make you deaf. The Klipsch's sensitivity is also good.

Believe me, unless you are deaf, you will not be able to cross 115 to 120db on the 606. This will be roughly half the power of the amp. Going back to olden days of using a pot to control volume, this will be between 11 '0' clock to 12 '0' clock position in the volume knob.

As I mentioned elsewhere, you can set different speakers at different power settings. I usually set the center channels and the surround channels slight higher than the fronts.

Your 12 inch sub is an active sub and adds another 300 watts.

manu4panjab said:
and no.2 important thing as today we can mostly get 7.1 receiver do i play 5.1 speakers without any loss of quality or do i miss sumthing if not use extra rear speakers because mine room layout i can't use extra 2 rear speakers for 7.1

Using a 7.1 AVR with only a 5.1 speaker set will not make any difference to your quality of sound or degrade the system in any way. Most DVDs that you get in the market today are coded only for 5.1 sound. So in most cases, there will no data going to the rear channels. Please do not have any worry on this count.

You can also biamp your front speakers with output of your rear channels. Please refer to page 17 of the 606 manual which tells you how to do it. This way you will get improved bass and treble performance from you front speakers.

Cheers
 

manu4panjab

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hey bro

As I mentioned elsewhere, you can set different speakers at different power settings. I usually set the center channels and the surround channels slight higher than the fronts

whats the meanig of the above you see i'm on zero level for using av receiver and sperate receiver so i don't know the proper meaning of you above lines

ok as you suggested do not play loud and i can use 606 with klipsch speaker

i will do the same

2nd point (
Your 12 inch sub is an active sub and adds another 300 watts) whats the meanig of this

and third point as you say bi amping mine front speakers with rear outputs doest that mean i need extra amplifiers because as much as knowledge i have i guess bi amping means adding one more amplifier right if i'm wrong please correct me and one more thing do bi amp really improves the overall sound quality

and one more important thing i want to know how the hell you know that much knowledge are you some kind of sound engineer or something

don't mind just asking

thanks again

i'm waiting for your reply
 

venkatcr

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many4panjab said:
As I mentioned elsewhere, you can set different speakers at different power settings. I usually set the center channels and the surround channels slight higher than the fronts

whats the meanig of the above you see i'm on zero level for using av receiver and sperate receiver so i don't know the proper meaning of you above lines

Manu, if you look at an AVR, it has seven power amplifiers inside - one for each channel. Most AVRs, as part of speaker set up, will play a note on each speaker. You can increase or decrease the 'volume' individually for each speaker till you feel it is at a comfortable level compared to other speakers. This is like setting the relative volume level for each speaker independently

many4panjab said:
2nd point (
Your 12 inch sub is an active sub and adds another 300 watts) whats the meanig of this

There are two types of sub woofers. Passive - where the power comes from the amplifier, and active - where just a signal is received from the amp or pre amp. and the sub itself has an power amplifier inside. The Klipsch is a active sub woofer.

many4panjab said:
and third point as you say bi amping mine front speakers with rear outputs doest that mean i need extra amplifiers because as much as knowledge i have i guess bi amping means adding one more amplifier right if i'm wrong please correct me and one more thing do bi amp really improves the overall sound quality

Biamping is a very technical issue, so I won't bore you with it.

A floor standing speaker generally has three drivers inside - one for low frequencies, one for mid frequencies, and one for high frequencies. These are called subwoofer, midrange, and tweeter. Usually you have an amplifier sending the full range of frequencies through a single pair of cables to the loudspeaker. Inside, the loudspeaker has a small electronic circuit called a crossover that takes all the frequencies, and sends three independent frequency ranges to the three drivers.

If you look at the rear of the speakers that can be bi-amped, there will be two sets of binding posts marked low pass and high pass. There will also be a small brass plates shorting (connecting) these two binding posts. In general condition, you connect to one pair of the binding posts, and let the loudspeaker do the frequency separation inside. (see picture below)

speakerbindingpostsod4.th.jpg


When you use an amp or an AVR that can bi-amp, the frequency separation is done by the amplifier, and two independent set of speaker cables carry the signals to the loudspeaker. One is connected to the low pass to drive the sub woofer directly and the other is connected to the high pass to drive the midrange and tweeter separately. By removing the brass plate that connects the two binding post you also disable the crossover inside the loudspeaker.

It is believed that doing this helps in bass response, dynamics, and overall fidelity. There is also electrical isolation between highs and lows of the speaker system as they are independently connected to separate amplifiers. This reduces cross talk and mutual inductance.

many4panjab said:
and one more important thing i want to know how the hell you know that much knowledge are you some kind of sound engineer or something

don't mind just asking

Only thing I will tell you is that I am not a sound engineer. I am a very senior executive in a software company. How I know so much is my little secret. :D

Cheers
 
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manu4panjab

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hey thanks yaar


ok as in your previous replies you said don't play loud but what if i sit from 19 feet away from speakers because i'm using 720p sony projector with 120 inch screen and i sit around 19 feet from it for optimum viewing

so i have read on internet that if you sit further away from speakers you need atleast 3 db increase for any 1 metere of distance after 12 feet from speaker

so according mine seating position do 100 watts/ channel is enough or not for me kinda confuse so help me out

and most important thing i'm sorry if i bores or disturb you by asking too many questions

also need more advise as i mentioned about klipsch speakers i send you some information about two systems known as f-1 ,f-2 and you tell me which system fits into mine needs mine room dimensions are 12 feet wide,20 feet long and 10 feet high and don't forget i sit atleast 19 feet from screen that means 19 feet from front,center and subwoofer also
here are the models
klipsch f-1
Model Specifications. Price
F1 100w(400wPeak),8ohms,97db 25000/-
C1 50w(200wPeak),8ohms,93db 9000/-
S1 50w(200wPeak),8ohms,88.5db 12000/-
Sub10 10' woofer,200w(400w Peak) 21000/-
5.1 Total 67000/-
f-2 speakers
Model Specifications. Price
F2 100w(400wPeak),8ohms,95.5db 34000/-
C2 100w(400wPeak),8ohms,95.5db 12000/-
S2 100w(400wPeak),8ohms,91db 18000/-
Sub12 12' woofer,300w(650w Peak) 25000/-
5.1 Total 89000/-

and about receiver which av receiver onkyo 606 or onkyo 705
onkyo 606 produce 90 watts/channel @8 ohms (cost 36000)
onkyo 705 produce 100 watts.channel @8 ohms (cost 45000)

right now i have 1 lakh and 25 thousand atleast spare for buying complete package :cool:
atlast as you mentioned in your reply (When you use an amp or an AVR that can bi-amp, the frequency separation is done by the amplifier) this means when i had to bi amp mine front speakers with rear speakers out put i need one more amplifier or pre amp and what if i don't use any bi amping for front speakers and only use 5.1 connection do i loss sumthing

so i'm waiting for your reply
 
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smsrini

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Manu,

If you have a 20ft room, the ideal seating should be around 3 to 5 ft from the rear wall. this distance will allow you to sit within the throw ( cant think of the right term ) of the rear surrounds.

If you sit at 19ft from front, then you have 1ft distance, and may not get good rear surround effect.

If you plan to have a dedicated HomeTheatre room, you should go for a 7.1 setup, with bipolar surrounds on left/right and a forward facing rear surround.

For a 5.1 setup, use bipolar rear surrounds to disperse the sound and bounce it off the side walls, or use only left/right bipolar surrounds - in which case you can sit at 19ft.

Bi-Amping. This is normally done using the 2nd Zone/ ZoneB amp in the receiver, so you will not loose the surround effects. This however will restrict you to a 5.1 setup. Bi-Amping improves the Sound Quality of the Front tower speakers as there are two amps driving the Bass and Mid/high range respectively. If I understand correctly, there is less loading on the amp, and less loss in the cross overs with bi-amping. Make sure the receiver supports bi-amping.
 

venkatcr

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manu4panjab said:
ok as in your previous replies you said don't play loud but what if i sit from 19 feet away from speakers because i'm using 720p sony projector with 120 inch screen and i sit around 19 feet from it for optimum viewing

so i have read on internet that if you sit further away from speakers you need atleast 3 db increase for any 1 metere of distance after 12 feet from speaker

so according mine seating position do 100 watts/ channel is enough or not for me kinda confuse so help me out

and most important thing i'm sorry if i bores or disturb you by asking too many questions

This is a difficult question to answer. 100 watts per channel is a lot of power. This is continuous power, not the kind of PMPO that Sony pushes.

It is not only the amplifier's power but also a lot of other factors that go into ensuring that you get good sound. One of the most important is room acoustics. If there is a lot of external noise,one tends to increase the volume and that is not good.

I have a large room myself, and I sit some 12 feet away from the front speakers. The rear speakers are about 5 feet behind me and the surround speakers are about 4 feet on either side of my ears. The AVR has way of compensating for these positions through what is called an Audyssey system. That will take care of your worries.

If you match the 606 with the F1, and the 705 with the F2, either way you will have a good system. Or you can also match the 705 with the F1, and that way you will have a more powerful system.

manu4panjab said:
also need more advise as i mentioned about klipsch speakers i send you some information about two systems known as f-1 ,f-2 and you tell me which system fits into mine needs mine room dimensions are 12 feet wide,20 feet long and 10 feet high and don't forget i sit atleast 19 feet from screen that means 19 feet from front,center and subwoofer also
here are the models

klipsch f-1

Model Specifications. Price
F1 100w(400wPeak),8ohms,97db 25000/-
C1 50w(200wPeak),8ohms,93db 9000/-
S1 50w(200wPeak),8ohms,88.5db 12000/-
Sub10 10' woofer,200w(400w Peak) 21000/-
5.1 Total 67000/-

f-2 speakers
Model Specifications. Price
F2 100w(400wPeak),8ohms,95.5db 34000/-
C2 100w(400wPeak),8ohms,95.5db 12000/-
S2 100w(400wPeak),8ohms,91db 18000/-
Sub12 12' woofer,300w(650w Peak) 25000/-
5.1 Total 89000/-

I thought you had already decided on the F2. Why this change of mind? Yes, I can understand your budget is not fitting. As I said above, both speakers sets are good.

manu4panjab said:
and about receiver which av receiver onkyo 606 or onkyo 705
onkyo 606 produce 90 watts/channel @8 ohms (cost 36000)
onkyo 705 produce 100 watts.channel @8 ohms (cost 45000)

See below.

manu4panjab said:
right now i have 1 lakh and 25 thousand at least spare for buying complete package

You have three options:

Onkyo 705 - 45,000
F2 Speakers - 89,000
Total 1,34,000

Onkyo 606 - 36,000
F1 Speakers - 67,000
Total 1,03,000

Onkyo 705 - 45,000
F1 Speakers - 67,000
Total 1,12,000

So the decison will depend a lot on what you can afford.

manu4panjab said:
atlast as you mentioned in your reply (When you use an amp or an AVR that can bi-amp, the frequency separation is done by the amplifier) this means when i had to bi amp mine front speakers with rear speakers out put i need one more amplifier or pre amp and what if i don't use any bi amping for front speakers and only use 5.1 connection do i loss sumthing

Manu, I have already explained that you do NOT lose anything if you do not bi-amp.

Both the 606 and the 705 support bi-amping, so you do not need additional amplifiers.

My greatest concern is that you seem to be making your purchase decision based on just what this forum is saying. Though we will not lead you in the wrong direction, it is always better to see and listen to the systems before you buy. Can you do this please?

I would very strongly advise that you audition before placing the orders.

Cheers
 

manu4panjab

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hey brother

thanks yaar i never thought that online someone could help me like the way you did i really appreciate it from mine heart

as you suggest about three options for speaker and receive selection
i decide this

705 receiver 45000
f1 speaker 25000
c1 speaker 9000
s1 speaker 12000
as i can see f1 has sub 10 wth its whole package at the rate of 21000
can i alternate it with sub 12 which is 25000
so a total of 116000 what you think about it i like to know this from you because you has sooo much knowledge

one more thing as you suggest 705 + f1 and i can have more powerful system i have one thing to ask
as you can see c1(center speaker) has 50 watts of continous power(200 watts peak) and s1(surround speakers) also has the same so by using 705 with it do i have som kind of problem running them

last yaar can you send me some hand drawing how to bi amp front speaker with rear speakers output for 5.1
i send you back panel of 705

thanks one more time
 

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venkatcr

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manu4panjab said:
i decide this

705 receiver 45000
f1 speaker 25000
c1 speaker 9000
s1 speaker 12000
as i can see f1 has sub 10 wth its whole package at the rate of 21000
can i alternate it with sub 12 which is 25000
so a total of 116000 what you think about it i like to know this from you because you has sooo much knowledge

This is a good configuration, and you can certainly use the Sub 12 instead of Sub 10.

manu4panjab said:
one more thing as you suggest 705 + f1 and i can have more powerful system i have one thing to ask
as you can see c1(center speaker) has 50 watts of continous power(200 watts peak) and s1(surround speakers) also has the same so by using 705 with it do i have som kind of problem running them

Manu, in a movie, bulk of the sound is sent to the front R&L speakers. So having good ones here is an advantage. The rest of the sound are the dialogues which go to the center speaker. Stop worrying. You will get good sound from this set up, and it fits your budget well.

manu4panjab said:
last yaar can you send me some hand drawing how to bi amp front speaker with rear speakers output for 5.1
i send you back panel of 705

If you read the AVR manual, there is a very clear description of how to do the bi-amping. For example, the 606 has the following diagram on Page 17:



Please read the manual very carefully page by page before you start to install the system. I would also suggest, don't try the bi-amping on day one. Run the system as a pure 5.1 for a few weeks. See if the 'volume' you are looking for is there directly. Listen to some music, and see some movies. The speakers need a few weeks to break in. After that you may need to retune the AVR once again in terms of speaker set up.

Once you are happy with all this, then try bi-amping, and that too, only if you think you need more.

And PLEASE, take a trip to Delhi if needed, and do audition the system before placing the order.

Cheers
 
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