No 5.1 sound on Airtel HD over HDMI

[dvraghavan]

I have recently bought a Onkyo 3400 and connected airtel HD STB through HDMI.However Onkyo shows the input as 2.0 channel PCM - even when I am viewing HD channels (Mov now, NGC HD and Discovery HD). However I am able to get Dolby sound when I use a Coaxial connection from the STB to the AVR.

I have been following up for the past 4 days with Airtel - but to no avail. One person even said that may be Airtel STB is oncompatible with Onkyo - without even looking at what the issue is.

Has this been the case with everyone using Airtel HD? Have you got 5.1 sound over HDMI? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have a old DVD player that I have connected to the Coaxial port. Having to change cabling everytime to watch DVD would be a pain. Or I would have to purchase a new player which could pass 5.1 sound over HDMI (thats besides the point anyways....)

Venkat

 

[baijuxavior]

If any one of the above have optical output then buy a optical cable.

Also read these threads - http://www.hifivision.com/digital-cable-dth/16966-airtel-dth-helpless.html

http://www.hifivision.com/digital-cable-dth/15400-airtel-hd-audio-out-question.html

 

[dvraghavan]

Hello friend

I remember reading this port before buying the Onkyo. I am not sure whats wrong with either the STB or with Onkyo - but this is what I see. Onkyo recognizes multichannel (5.1) sound when I connect the coaxial. However on HDMI it just shows Prologic 2.0 channel sound.

(sigh) anyways have to by an optical cable now.....

Do none of the DTH providers support 5.1 sound over the HDMI - 'coz i heard a friend using TS also experiencing the same issue. Anyways thanks for your kind help...

~Venkat

 

[prankey]

Hello friend

I remember reading this port before buying the Onkyo. I am not sure whats wrong with either the STB or with Onkyo - but this is what I see. Onkyo recognizes multichannel (5.1) sound when I connect the coaxial. However on HDMI it just shows Prologic 2.0 channel sound.

(sigh) anyways have to by an optical cable now.....

Do none of the DTH providers support 5.1 sound over the HDMI - 'coz i heard a friend using TS also experiencing the same issue. Anyways thanks for your kind help...

~Venkat

All DTH operators are SUPPOSED to support 5.1 or DD+7.1 through HDMI. TS and Airtel are currently facing some common firmware bug probably to support DD+7.1 in the future. Dish and RDTV still do not broadcast in multichannel format. Sun Direct supports mulitchannel output through HDMI.

 

[just4kix]

The problem in India is that no official body or forum has defined the standards. In such cases, the reputed people would implement international standards. But no. In India, if one can get away with murder (Nithari), money laundaring (St. Kitts, Swiss banks, Cayman Is.), scams (Bofors, CWG, 2G, etc.), what if certain standards are not implemented? Especially when there are no laws to govern them?

That is why people are able to get away with "35 HD channels", fake 5.1 audio, etc. Companies are even claiming 7.1 channels when not even all blu-rays have implemented them.

 

[Kittu]

Out of 3 hd channels in Airtel , two are fake I mean upscaled or what so ever. Discovery HD looks real hd channel.Sound level calibration is also not in sync. Some major firmware upgrade or hardware upgrade required.

 

[mkreddy]

I don't have Airtel DTH, but I have seen similar issues with other devices like Media Players.
In the settings there may be an option to change the Audio Settings for HDMI, please try changing them.
Also, You may want to check same thing on the Receiver.

BTW, Have you tried any other HDMI source with Onkyo Receiver to check the Srround sound?

 

[addy]

The Airtel HD STB transmits 5.1 audio only on coaxial cable and not through HDMI. My STB does not have the optical output, so I am using the coaxial cable to connect it to my HT. Btw, I have a Denon 1910 receiver. The 5.1 sound is quite good actually. Even the Movies Now HD (which is an upscaled channel?) has good sound quality.

 

[prankey]

The Airtel HD STB transmits 5.1 audio only on coaxial cable and not through HDMI. My STB does not have the optical output, so I am using the coaxial cable to connect it to my HT. Btw, I have a Denon 1910 receiver. The 5.1 sound is quite good actually. Even the Movies Now HD (which is an upscaled channel?) has good sound quality.

Movies Now, Discovery HD and Nat Geo HD are REAL HD channels They might be getting more compressed on Airtel for you to think they are not.

 

[addy]

Movies Now, Discovery HD and Nat Geo HD are REAL HD channels They might be getting more compressed on Airtel for you to think they are not.

What I meant to say was that the movies played on Movies Now were not shot in HD. So that makes them an upscaled channel, right? Whereas NGC HD and Discovery HD are shot in HD. Please correct if I'm wrong in my assumption.

I am assuming that not so recent movies like I Robot, Apocalypto, Independence Day, There's Something About Mary etc were not shot in HD and hence the above statement.

 

[prankey]

What I meant to say was that the movies played on Movies Now were not shot in HD. So that makes them an upscaled channel, right? Whereas NGC HD and Discovery HD are shot in HD. Please correct if I'm wrong in my assumption.

I am assuming that not so recent movies like I Robot, Apocalypto, Independence Day, There's Something About Mary etc were not shot in HD and hence the above statement.

Any Film projector movie can be shot in HD during mastering So even a 100 year old movie can be mastered in HD so yes your assumption is wrong as a 35mm film has THEORETICAL optical resolution much higher than 4p (4p is twice resolution of 1080p full HD) . However there are possibilities that some movies might not be mastered in HD and hence they might be upscaled by Movies Now. Honestly I never saw pixellation on Movies Now when I was using Dish TV and hence will not claim ANY movie on Movies Now to be upscaled.

Nevertheless, 3 of the 4 so called "ASLI" HD channels of Star broadcast upscaled movies in 4:3 container even when content is 16:9 or higher aspect ratio in letterboxed mode. I have NEVER seen such goof-up in Movies Now. So you should be VERY happy with that

 

[just4kix]

Any Film projector movie can be shot in HD during mastering So even a 100 year old movie can be mastered in HD so yes your assumption is wrong as a 35mm film has THEORETICAL optical resolution much higher than 4p (4p is twice resolution of 1080p full HD) . However there are possibilities that some movies might not be mastered in HD and hence they might be upscaled by Movies Now. Honestly I never saw pixellation on Movies Now when I was using Dish TV and hence will not claim ANY movie on Movies Now to be upscaled.

Nevertheless, 3 of the 4 so called "ASLI" HD channels of Star broadcast upscaled movies in 4:3 container even when content is 16:9 or higher aspect ratio in letterboxed mode. I have NEVER seen such goof-up in Movies Now. So you should be VERY happy with that

It would be interesting to know how any movie is sourced (be it any channel). For instance, in the old DD days, DD used to show movies on Sundays using the original film as the source. They had (have?) a tele-cine machine that used to convert celluloid 35 mm film to TV. I do not know what channels do today.

But if original source (film or digital) is used, it is very easy to show the movie in full HD alongwith true HD sound. I am guessing that that is not the case.

 

[prankey]

It would be interesting to know how any movie is sourced (be it any channel). For instance, in the old DD days, DD used to show movies on Sundays using the original film as the source. They had (have?) a tele-cine machine that used to convert celluloid 35 mm film to TV. I do not know what channels do today.

But if original source (film or digital) is used, it is very easy to show the movie in full HD alongwith true HD sound. I am guessing that that is not the case.

Even I am not completely aware how films are converted to Video and Digital Video (even unaware how 4p source is created as original recording is usually 35mm film due to their better resolution).

What I believe is they might be scanning the film through a machine similar to what you are telling to HD, SD or Full HD resolution. This process should be similar for ANY Movie produced since day 1 more than 100 years ago. Only difference will be with their optical resolution due to camera lenses not being as sophisticated and sharp like some used in present day movies.

Original HD Audio is usually never used as it is as these so called HD broadcast source convert 24fps source to 25 or 30fps to avoid telecine judders. Hence all the associated audio will be sped up accordingly to sync with video! Hence, original frequencies (transpose) are also shifted with increase in tempo. So essentially destroying original sound by such speed increase. Same happens to scenes as they are sped up from their original speed. Only BRs/DVDs and other source with original 24Hz telecine content avoid such situation and can give us originally mastered audio!

 

[askii2]

Original HD Audio is usually never used as it is as these so called HD broadcast source convert 24fps source to 25 or 30fps to avoid telecine judders. Hence all the associated audio will be sped up accordingly to sync with video! Hence, original frequencies (transpose) are also shifted with increase in tempo. So essentially destroying original sound by such speed increase. Same happens to scenes as they are sped up from their original speed. Only BRs/DVDs and other source with original 24Hz telecine content avoid such situation and can give us originally mastered audio!

Is it that bad? My understanding was since framerate is a property of LCD television, not mains electric frequency (50Hz in India) like it was for CRTs, broadcasters could broadcast at any framerate 24/25/30fps same would be the case for STB to TV communication. TV could take care of matching it with required frequency. Speeding up this way would be stupid for audio as well as video.

I have noticed one more thing, in some of the older hindi movies from 2000 to 2008, Star Movies HD uses a 16:9 source instead of the original 2.35:1 film, then they stretch it to 2.35:1 most probably because it's how they have set their conversion permanently set. The movie Xcuse me shown over the weekend suffered from this problem.

 

[addy]

Honestly I never saw pixellation on Movies Now when I was using Dish TV and hence will not claim ANY movie on Movies Now to be upscaled.

True. Even I have not seen any pixellation on Movies Now. From what I've seen till now, Movies Now HD has got superb picture clarity and even the sound is good. The only issue with Movies Now is that they seem to have a very small collection of movies, as they keep on repeating the movies very frequently. I have not seen Star Movies HD, so I will not comment on that.

 

[prankey]

Is it that bad? My understanding was since framerate is a property of LCD television, not mains electric frequency (50Hz in India) like it was for CRTs, broadcasters could broadcast at any framerate 24/25/30fps same would be the case for STB to TV communication. TV could take care of matching it with required frequency. Speeding up this way would be stupid for audio as well as video.

I have noticed one more thing, in some of the older hindi movies from 2000 to 2008, Star Movies HD uses a 16:9 source instead of the original 2.35:1 film, then they stretch it to 2.35:1 most probably because it's how they have set their conversion permanently set. The movie Xcuse me shown over the weekend suffered from this problem.

You are confusing 2.35:1 aspect ration with 4:3 dude! What you saw was 16:9 or 2.35:1 aspect ratio presented in 4:3. If you manually change the aspect ratio of your TV to 4:3, you would get proper, unstretched picture. That was what I was talking of. Even when such content, they do not convert to 16:9 before upscaling it (easily done by cropping top and bottom black bars to convert to 16:9 container).

True. Even I have not seen any pixellation on Movies Now. From what I've seen till now, Movies Now HD has got superb picture clarity and even the sound is good. The only issue with Movies Now is that they seem to have a very small collection of movies, as they keep on repeating the movies very frequently. I have not seen Star Movies HD, so I will not comment on that.

Its the same on all HD channels in India, hardly any content. With an exception most of the Star HD channels also broadcast SD, 4:3 content which NONE of the others do!

 

[askii2]

You are confusing 2.35:1 aspect ration with 4:3 dude! What you saw was 16:9 or 2.35:1 aspect ratio presented in 4:3. If you manually change the aspect ratio of your TV to 4:3, you would get proper, unstretched picture. That was what I was talking of. Even when such content, they do not convert to 16:9 before upscaling it (easily done by cropping top and bottom black bars to convert to 16:9 container).
/QUOTE]

I had to resize it on my TV/projector to 4:3 to get 16:9 aspect ratio with black bars at top and bottom. That's just silly because they are wasting bandwidth in black bars. The picture size is always the same 1920:1080. Incorrect aspect ratio at their end will force black bars at top and bottom when they are not needed.

 

[prankey]

well right now the star gold and few other movies u r seeing on star gold hd r just test movies. star has not unleashed real stock which they will do once distribution is in plzce and ads start. so dont worry they will do the conversion soon.
right now despite so much distribution, movies now too airs movies in upscaled manners with black bars due toi downsizing.

Get your FACTS right before commenting something. Movies Now always maintain CORRECT ASPECT ratio presented in 16:9. Some movies are mastered in original 2:35:1 aspect ratio and hence are PROPERLY presented in Movies Now.

Its not just Star Gold, other than Star Plus HD, all other channels show 4:3 aspect ratio mastered content in 16:9 horizontally stretched. We loose resolution due to such conversion when the original content within them is 16:9.

I have not seen any 4:3 aspect ratio upscaled movie on Movies Now. Let me know if anyone has, especially at 4:3 aspect ratio despite content is 16:9 or 21:9 like shown regularly on Star Movies HD and Start Gold HD.

 

[askii2]

Its not just Star Gold, other than Star Plus HD, all other channels show 4:3 aspect ratio mastered content in 16:9 horizontally stretched. We loose resolution due to such conversion when the original content within them is 16:9.

I have not seen any 4:3 aspect ratio upscaled movie on Movies Now. Let me know if anyone has, especially at 4:3 aspect ratio despite content is 16:9 or 21:9 like shown regularly on Star Movies HD and Start Gold HD.

Well.... Star Gold HD does it. But it's not regularly done. I have seen it a few times on their 11:00pm movies (Yesterday's 11:00pm movie Zindagi Rocks). I don't think it's 4:3 to 16:9 conversion. I believe it's 2.35:1 movie film stored after cropping in 16:9 digital form transmitted incorrectly by stretching in 2.35:1 form. Instead of stretching and placing black bars at top and bottom, they need to just make it full screen in 16:9.

I have never seen any stretching on either Star Movies HD or Star Gold HD on their prime time (9:00pm) on weekdays or almost all the time on weekends.

My DishTV HD connection is not active, so I can't comment for their recent movies. All their earlier content (till April) had correct aspect ratio, although older movies (80's 90's) didn't contain adequate detail.

 

[prankey]

Well.... Star Gold HD does it. But it's not regularly done. I have seen it a few times on their 11:00pm movies (Yesterday's 11:00pm movie Zindagi Rocks). I don't think it's 4:3 to 16:9 conversion. I believe it's 2.35:1 movie film stored after cropping in 16:9 digital form transmitted incorrectly by stretching in 2.35:1 form. Instead of stretching and placing black bars at top and bottom, they need to just make it full screen in 16:9.

I have never seen any stretching on either Star Movies HD or Star Gold HD on their prime time (9:00pm) on weekdays or almost all the time on weekends.

My DishTV HD connection is not active, so I can't comment for their recent movies. All their earlier content (till April) had correct aspect ratio, although older movies (80's 90's) didn't contain adequate detail.

By regularly I meant every day we "regularly" see several such incorrect aspect ratio movies especially on Star Gold HD when such content is usually about 70% of the time.

There are some movies with 16:9 ratio and some 2.35:1. Its actually any where between 16:9 to 2.35:1 presented in 4:3.

Gist is they are showing the same SD 4:3 mastered content in HD without even bothering to first crop them to 16:9 for letterboxed content.