Pune HFV Meet 2010

[avidyarthy]

Very very neatly done, Sonosphere!

Very systematic and methodical. This procedure can bring out data which can guide any newcomer as to what he should select, taking into consideration the views given out by "experts and noobs sitting together". This is what is missed out totally when you are running around alone to do a selection for yourself.

:clapping:

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Hiiten, Avidyarthy, others,
Thanks for appreciation. So it's been worth the effort.
Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[sonosphere]

UPDATE:
For those who have read previous post# 118 reg Demo# 1 yesterday... please note that it has been updated with more information (refer here >> http://www.hifivision.com/av-lounge/14042-pune-hfv-meet-2010-a-12.html#post203261)
Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[captrajesh]

*Tip to existing /future Norge-9.2 combo owners:In case you have a DVDP as source, for your combo, you are hearing only 50% of the combo's musical capacity when compared to what it delivered from this Marantz 5001 CDP. This combo can do justice to a CDP that costs more than the combo cost! Don't upgrade to better spearkers or amp (for improving SQ) unless you upgrade your DVDP to minimum Marantz 5001 CDP class of source.

This is not only applicable to Norge owners but even others. Fully agree.

My 1st revealation of the day:
Despite upgrading to NAD 320 + Usher V-601, from my earlier Norge-9.2 combo, it doesn't sound half as good as it the demo!# 1 setup sounded today... just because the my present setup still has DVDP as source:sad:. A case of wrong upgrade sequence. Others can learn from my experience

Identifying the weak link in the chain and taking a call on which of the components to upgrade comes only with experience. DVD to CDP is a no brainer though.

 

[Mubeen]

Hi all,

I am absolutely gutted to have missed this one. Just reading the posts and looking at the pics i can imagine how wonderful and enjoyable evening you all had. Wish i could be there. :sad:

Congratulations and kudos you all to have arranged it successfully. May be we can have another one sometime in near future where guys like me who missed it can get a chance

On the positive note, while i am in Chennai, i will try to find out if there is any Chennai meet planned. Dont have my system here with me, but can always turn up with my Grado SR60!

Once again, good one guys. I will be eager to read the reports.

 

[askii2]

Thanks for compiling, Sonosphere.
Could you post compilations for other combinations also?

 

[sups]

Hi Sonosphere,

Waiting for your other compilation results.

sups

 

[sonosphere]

Hi Sups, Askii2,
I can understand the curiosity. My apologies for updates coming in late... work-hrs are getting extended, so not much time left. Give me another day pls.
Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[sridhar-v]

Sonosphere,

You are doing a great job of interpreting the data. Do it in your own time. I can understand the work pressure. Well the economy grows @ 9% plus, we work hard & make money to upgrade our systems.


You had measured sound levels at various intervals. Could you also share that data?

regards

Sridhar

 

[sonosphere]

DEMO# 2

The next in line for entry-level systems was Sridhar-V's amp-speaker combo. I am surprised to see the extent of mixed observations for this demo! Nobody seems to agree whether it sounds warm /Neutral or sharp!

Unfortunately, I forgot to take pics of this combo. Sridhar-V can you post pics of this amp and speaker? Thanks.

 

[askii2]

There was a comment from Viki that the same speakers (Phillips) sound much better with a more powerful/balanced amp. I think the difficulty in separating speaker and amp behavior has lead to this this mixed response.

Are there any general guidelines for auditions so that we can understand speaker versus amp behavior? Is it possible to distinguish them as opposed to just being able to say whether an amp+spk combo sounds neutral/warm/sharp?

DEMO# 2

I am surprised to see the extent of mixed observations for this demo! Nobody seems to agree whether it sounds warm /Neutral or sharp!

 

[sonosphere]

Bold highlights in quote below, are mine...

There was a comment from Viki that the same speakers (Phillips) sound much better with a more powerful/balanced amp. I think the difficulty in separating speaker and amp behavior has lead to this this mixed response.

Are there any general guidelines for auditions so that we can understand speaker versus amp behavior? Is it possible to distinguish them as opposed to just being able to say whether an amp+spk combo sounds neutral/warm/sharp?

Hi Askii2,
If I correctly understand what you are trying to say, my opinion is:
- Difficulty in separating behaviour has not led to mixed response (and it shouldn't either... you shouldn't "think" that a combo is sounding warm, because you "know" that the associated gear is known to sound warm. You should directly "feel" how it sounds, without caring what is causing it)

I believe there is mixed response, because our observations are always in reference to our past sonic-experience. So guy who was raised listneing to a old tube based radio (circa 1960's) will find Wharfedale 9.2 to be very sharp!

What this demo may prove that the observers come from diverse past sonic-experiences!

- Yes. There can be general guidelines based on "general" opinion published in media or personal discussions. For e.g to my knowledge NAD amps are considered "warm", whereas Rotel amps are considered "Forward /Sharp". Similar guidelines are floating around for speakers. Now, you can use this info anyway you want. You may use it to "predict" how certain gear may sound if paired together...

or... as you have queried...

you can use this info to distinguish /breakdown the overall tonality into parts, for e.g saying that the extra sizzle in cymbals is coming from Rotel amp, whereas the extra low-bass is coming from the 7" woofer of Ushers, making the overall tonality sound "Neutral".

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[jaggervm]

off topic, in a way.

Most of those who had stayed till later in the night might remember me mentioning a particular article from Stereophile which said that SOUND was not the only thing that benefited from better AC & cables.
Glad to say the article has just been put up on their website. Here is the link.

Listening #96 | Stereophile.com

 

[sonosphere]

Demo# 3

We move up a little above entry-level here, with Askii2's Yamaha "mini" Floorstander. See the observations... the usual conflicting ones along with hint of improvement over previous demo.

- Yamaha 7390 FS are on either side of the equipment rack
- The Pace-2050 is sitting on top of the rack, while the Marantz cdp is below it.

 

[sonosphere]

Sonosphere,

You are doing a great job of interpreting the data. Do it in your own time. I can understand the work pressure. Well the economy grows @ 9% plus, we work hard & make money to upgrade our systems.


You had measured sound levels at various intervals. Could you also share that data?

regards

Sridhar

Thanks Sridhar. You're spot on reg 9% growth rate and system upgrade (That's the reason behind my Usher purchase within one yr of Wharfedale purchase )

Regarding sound level measurements... I did that only during the Tchaicovsky's crescendo passage, to ensure that all demos were delivering 90 dB approx. And surprisingly even entry level setups performed that loud. More on this as story unfolds...hyeah:

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[sridhar-v]

Here are the pihttp://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3391&stc=1&d=129http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3392&stc=1&d=12930076533007614cs of my amp & speaker

Now it is very clear that I need to upgrade my amp.

I was initially having a budget of 15,000 but I now realise the need to stretch things. Iam willing to stretch things to 30,000. I also now realise that a DAC is an absolute must. My source will either be a computer with optical out or a media player. I will be using my current Phillips single driver speakers & later upgrading to better speakers. As far as speakers are concerned I am now inclined to getting a pair of MTM's with seperate sub. The reason is that I have found that there needs to be an adjustment of Bass levels when shifting from one genere of music to another and that should be possible with a seperate sub. One strong candidate is the Lithos Q10 system. Will be going to Mumbai for audition in the next week.

I have shortlisted the following combos:-

1. Harman Kardon 3490 .
Has 125x2 RMS into 8 ohms with inbuilt DAC & subwoofer outs (L & R).
Will be auditioning in a couple of days. Versatile many in one package so my cable clutter will
be reduced.

2. Norge 2060 with Beresford DAC. May need to upgrade amp later.

3. Marantz or NAD amp & buy DAC later as it will not be within budget.

Sonosphere Watt for Watt is there any equivalency between Norge & NAD? Ie. can60W norge drive speakers the same as 60w NAD?

Regards
Sridhar

 

[venkatcr]

The reason is that I have found that there needs to be an adjustment of Bass levels when shifting from one genere of music to another and that should be possible with a seperate sub.

A system that needs tonal adjustments is not considered good by purists. Some of the high end amps do not even give you the option.

Sonosphere Watt for Watt is there any equivalency between Norge & NAD? Ie. can60W norge drive speakers the same as 60w NAD?

If NAD's claim to honesty in wattage specifications is to be believed, this will not be true. You also have to see at what impedance the specifications have been mentioned. 60 watts into 8 ohms is different from 60 watts into 6 ohms.

Cheers

 

[sridhar-v]

A system that needs tonal adjustments is not considered good by purists. Some of the high end amps do not even give you the option.

Actually that is why I was looking at the Lithos Kontra. But it would not fit my budget as I now will need to spend more on the other items. My thinking is something like this:-

Music genere A requires "x"% of total energy to come from the bass frequencies. But the speaker construction is such that it is drawing 1.2"x" in the bass frequencies. That is why one feels that bass is boomy or warm. So possibly the amplification needs to be reduces selectively for the bass. One way is to use a graphic equaliser. Another way is to control the amplification of the bass portion of the speaker. Most of the speakers being made today have a higher emphasis on bass (sort of market demand?) and this tends to drown out the Mid frequencies. I noticed this when we were trying out the various speaker & amps combination. In the 1812 overture there are a lot of mid freq. details that were not coming through due to the higher bass response.

I will go to Lithos & take an audition & update you all on my findings.

Regards

Sridhar

 

[sonosphere]

....
Sonosphere Watt for Watt is there any equivalency between Norge & NAD? Ie. can60W norge drive speakers the same as 60w NAD?

Regards
Sridhar

Hi Sridhar,
From pers experience >> To get 85dB loudness @ 2m on NAD C320 (50w RMS per channel), the volume knob needs to be at 9 o'clock position, and to get same level on Norge-1000 (125w RMS per channel) the knob needs to be at 10 o'clock.
*The speaker was same for both amps, i.e Wharfe 9.2

No experience reg Norge-2060, but I guess you would need to go till 12 o'clock to reach 85dB.

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[sridhar-v]

Hi Sridhar,
From pers experience >> To get 85dB loudness @ 2m on NAD C320 (50w RMS per channel), the volume knob needs to be at 9 o'clock position, and to get same level on Norge-1000 (125w RMS per channel) the knob needs to be at 10 o'clock.
*The speaker was same for both amps, i.e Wharfe 9.2

No experience reg Norge-2060, but I guess you would need to go till 12 o'clock to reach 85dB.

Regds,
Sonosphere

Thanks. How do you rate the Norge 1000 dynamically & for soundstage vis a vis NAD? I am asking this to know whether I can save 15-20K and use for a DAC.

regards
Sridhar