R.I.P High-End Audio?

[msagar]

"Note that this article was reprinted from the January 1994 issue of Stereophile. I chose it for republication because the arguments presented are still relevant today."
John Atkinson, Editor, Stereophile, Jan 2013.

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/rip-high-end-audio#IdUe48sstRWhUuw4.99

 

[marsilians]

High quality audio has a niche following. High end audio has even smaller following. Don’t think it will die fully but it’s a rare breed for sure that just sits down and enjoys a good album on a decent stereo system.

I feel Napster initially shot the first bullet at good quality audio and then Steve Jobs decimated it with the original iPod.

 

[flat_listener]

Why would anyone post this? Who cares? This has been said for years.
I was told that vinyl is dead, analogue is dead, CD's are dead, the music business is dead.

High end audio is neither dying nor sick nor stagnating.

The irrefutable tenet in this hobby still reigns true: you get what you pay for. I say hi end audio is alive and well.

 

[square_wave]

@marsilians ,

Just curious, How did Napster or ipod have anything to do with " high end audio " ? From what I know, high end audio consumers have nothing do with these technologies.

Napster, mp3 and ipod made sure the "quality of source" went down the drain for the mainstream music consumer. Thereafter began an era of cheap headphones / powered speakers. Music and its reproduction suddenly became "cheap" in the minds of mainstream consumer. Consumers of high end audio never got entangled in that mess. The entry level consumers surely got entangled and they are still struggling to break free.

 

[Ashenden]

Edit: There is a Buddhist reflection which is quite applicable to such conundrums:
"If a problem can be solved,
What reason is there to be upset?
If there is no possible solution,
What use is there in being sad?" - Shantideva

 

[raghupb]

There is a lot of X, Y, Z bashing for the irrelevance of "high end audio". No it is not dead.
Companies in the streaming business realized there is money to be made by making audio accessible.
What's wrong in it? One may crib about this or that quality, but what good is quality when content access is hard.

Also, some of the high end audio gear manufacturers have changed tracks and embraced wider market.
Some more have gone into ultra expensive niches. So be it.

Market moves where the money is. Mass moves where the market is. It is a merry-go-round.
Enjoy the music, even if it is on tinny ear-buds.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[dinesh1201]

High-end music will not die for sure, the community is educating and following the route. Everyone wants to reach nirvana which is difficult though DAC sales have been increased than ever. Still, people using traditional media, however, the community is different and small than people using mass market and digit audio. Also digital is not always bad and so the DAC was introduced to us to bypass the MB sound card.
But high-resolution audio is still expensive in terms of buying music and getting equipment that plays that music.
I don't know but it's a sort of hobby that you get in a very early stage of life and that insect lives within you forever. Not everyone has thought of deep and clean music, they need bass and it's a music for them. People are still not educated about what good audio sounds like. And so they never spend money on high-end gears. I love music and know what my ears want, I buy things but what I can afford another person buying more expensive because he can afford that much easier. Expensive not always mean good and not always mean snake oil. ATC, Harbeth and Spendors are some good examples of gears use by enthusiast and lovers and so the Vinyl and CDs.

 

[square_wave]

You are right. Napster and ipod etc are miles behind high end audio when it comes to sound quality. But the new generation are happy with that quality. They are least bothered about high end sound. Both my children, one who is 17 year old and the other 12 year old has never once used my audio set up. All they do is use the PMPs or mobile.

That is the whole point. Entertainment choices are more now. Also personal choice is king in today’s culture. Prices are also a big issue for the youngsters. There are too many things that is competing for their pay checks. It is a tough sell unless someone is a true “ music lover audiophile “. This has made this hobby super niche.

In the past, since entertainment options were less ( clunky televisions, vcrs and books ), all sorts of folk used to invest in entry to mid-level hifi systems. There was also a prevailing culture that allowed for big music systems in living rooms. And everyone in the family used to listen to the same music and all that. A lot of sales were driven by this phenomenon.

 

[hifitoaster]

I wouldn't say that, even though it is a sad situation. Where are all those cd stores, music world, plant M, Landmark. All are gone. Where can we get audio cds now. There are no shops selling them. All what you get is some mediocre stuff from amazon.
Even hifi enthusiasts....they are reducing by the day. My brother in Dubai said to me once that hifi selling showrooms are providing heavy discounts to sell off their stock. Nobody is buying. Even guys selling used separates have gone out of business. A few people whom I know have turned their business to mobile phones.

Yes,but remember now we have hi res downloads, hi res streamers and better dacs which can outperform yesteryears cd format and cd players. Also the boring jazz music is still hi quality in terms of recordings. I would only say RIP to Pop music recording quality.

 

[surfatwork]

The question is : what is high quality sound? I don't think stereophile can define it for me, and I can't define it for anyone else. I find stereophile recommendations to be obscenely expensive ($100000+, in my opinion, is crazy). But then many of my friends think my Martin logan speakers are crazy.
Maybe John Atkinson's definition of high quality (read expensive) audio is dwindling - I don't know. Maybe stereophile subscriptions have gone down. But high quality audio in general is not dead. Things like the raspi, allo, schiit and topping have made high quality affordable for many.

 

[raghupb]

I believe in the opposite. DACs don't sound like cds. My view. Maybe its debatable. But I strongly am biased towards cd. I never liked the DAC sound. I have not tried DACs valued more than a lakh, but the ones in the 50k range, CDs are better.

CDPs have DACs too.
CD transport vs PC/streaming is a raging debate that will never settle, for reasons known and unknown.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Deleted member 38504]

You are right. Napster and ipod etc are miles behind high end audio when it comes to sound quality. But the new generation are happy with that quality. They are least bothered about high end sound. Both my children, one who is 17 year old and the other 12 year old has never once used my audio set up. All they do is use the PMPs or mobile.

I see no wrong in that. You are from a different generation. Music is relative. Doesn't mean they have to listen to your old iliyaraja records or like your kind of music. It's about convenience and preferences too.

Note : "Your" is used in the third person. Not intended for anyone specific or one person.

I like to listen to Tammy wynette on LP. My 6 year old daughter likes to listen to Demi Lovato on YouTube. As a matter of choice it's fine. Shud I be forcing my obsession on my kid's? No I don't think so.

 

[raghupb]

In the world of digital audio (incl CDs) there is a bit of Occam's Razor at play.
Occam's Razor (a warped version):
All things being equal, the simplest explanation seems most likely the right one.

Applied to digital audio formats, one can hear out a CDP and a Media player connected to the the same DAC (and subsequent chain).
Some hear difference (alas) and some don't (bliss? well ... almost).
Those who hear the difference start racking their brains by wondering it must be:
- the format
- the compression
- the transport
- the interface
Those who don't hear a difference start racking their brains by wondering "Should I?"

Occam's Razor for you!!
Either you abandon a particular method or pursue it to perfection (or death).
Both approaches involve spends in terms of money, time and patience.

This hobby, many a time, blurs the line between the sublimity of music and sound of music.
Again, Enjoy the Music!!

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[marsilians]

@marsilians ,

Just curious, How did Napster or ipod have anything to do with " high end audio " ? From what I know, high end audio consumers have nothing do with these technologies.

Napster, mp3 and ipod made sure the "quality of source" went down the drain for the mainstream music consumer. Thereafter began an era of cheap headphones / powered speakers. Music and its reproduction suddenly became "cheap" in the minds of mainstream consumer. Consumers of high end audio never got entangled in that mess. The entry level consumers surely got entangled and they are still struggling to break free.

Sorry, I think I might have caused confusion in how I worded it. What I meant was Napster and iPod made low quality music fashionable and accessible due which mass market just fell for it. For eg., I think I have 2 decent setups one with harbeth compact 7s driven by parasound halo integrated and a second Vandersteen 3A signatures driven by PS Audio separates. Essentially systems that can enable high quality analog and digital music, but my kids are just not interested in them but rather Apple Music with their shitty headphones. I have a strong feeling that they will never embrace anything high end but will continue to invest in low end convenience. Of all their 20+ friends only one person said he enjoyed the system. That’s a state of the current trends I feel. Hope this clarifies.

 

[marsilians]

I see no wrong in that. You are from a different generation. Music is relative. Doesn't mean they have to listen to your old iliyaraja records or like your kind of music. It's about convenience and preferences too.

Note : "Your" is used in the third person. Not intended for anyone specific or one person.

I like to listen to Tammy wynette on LP. My 6 year old daughter likes to listen to Demi Lovato on YouTube. As a matter of choice it's fine. Shud I be forcing my obsession on my kid's? No I don't think so.

Totally agree on this viewpoint.

 

[marsilians]

It is the storage that is in question here. DACs in a CDP converts the files stored in cd, whereas a external DACs convert digital files stored in some hard disk somewhere in some format. I am no techno, but I just know, I feel the cds sound better. I am not mentioning cds played in dvd players, but good dedicated cd players.

Essentially the laser head in a CDP reads the content and passes it to the inbuilt DAC.

When external DACs are used with, let’s say, same CD player then all it does is override the DAC part and becomes a transport. There is no hard drive of any sort for it to store. The same concept is applicable when streamers are connected to External DAC. The source is now digital stream

 

[arj]

I am not well versed in the technicalities. I just know that, I played an audio file in my laptop through an external DAC (Arcam irdac and CA DAC magic 100) The same file I burned into a cd (Sony) and listened through the same amp and speakers. The cd sounded much better. That's how I concluded.

Same here. I have an Auralic Aries with the LPS and a CDMpro2 transport, both feeding into the same dac and the cd sounds so much better. But again my streamer is not high end and I have not invested much in that direction so not sure enough to generalize for a cd vs Wav.

 

[Mi_10]

Same here. I have an Auralic Aries with the LPS and a CDMpro2 transport, both feeding into the same dac and the cd sounds so much better. But again my streamer is not high end and I have not invested much in that direction so not sure enough to generalize for a cd vs Wav.

I had a similar experience between streaming via Laptop vs Playing via CD Player both feeding into the same DAC. But then, i found out the culprit, the USB cable connecting the DAC seemed to pull down the quality when compared to the Coaxial connected from the CD. The moment i changed the cable, there was an instant uplift of quality - Although it would be tough say if the Laptop got better of the CDP !

Mine was again low end Laptop with noisy USB pitted against another low end CDP

But then the story took a complete reversal the moment i went ahead with Allo+LPS. Staggering difference in Quality over the Low end CDP ! Which makes my investment in DAC totally purposeful !

Also DAC allows for better flexibility , like i connect multiple sources and toggle between them at will !

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Both my children, one who is 17 year old and the other 12 year old has never once used my audio set up.

Have you played or offered to play the music they listen to (regardless of what you think of it) through your set up?

 

[raghupb]

yeah. My son asked me to download Alan Walker songs for him. I did so and burned it to a cd. I played it in my system when he came back from school to surprise him. Without any hesitation he asked me where in the computer I have stored the songs......He then took his Fiio M3, transferred the songs to it and heard. I was like... what the f&@#. The idiot didn't even thank me.

Ah!! See you gave only half of the package.
You should have whipped out that retro discman.
It would have held the attention for at least a few hours, days
Cheers,
Raghu